Think about this: I have the Prism of Inner Calm and I'm an enhancement shaman. I keep using rank1 earth shocks whenever I'm out of mana and I can't make dps from my mana with max ranks. If it crits I will make -980 threat so I suppose it is not intended to have "free" threat reductions.
Also what about wand crits? We need someone with this trinket.
The insane behavior of Omen all around (values, ordering, eccet) disappeared with an update yesterday (as I raided just now to see them behave).
Irrelevant funniness - the WAU "update everything" that fixed Omen apparently broke my main tank windows. I'm not supposing the two are linked in any fashion besides coincidence, but it was fun to suppose the Universe was saying I could have a threat list or a main tank list, but not both.
My main tank list died yesterday too. Do you use Pitbull? They were appearing in oRA2 but not for some reason in Pitbull. Ugh. They were fine Tuesday too.
My main tank list died yesterday too. Do you use Pitbull? They were appearing in oRA2 but not for some reason in Pitbull. Ugh. They were fine Tuesday too.
Yes. I thought I wasn't getting the tank windows, and used my favorite reset method, /ora mt set 1 daksuo and bizarrely got "daksuo isn't a player" message (how would WoW know?), so I thought it was a problem from oRA. Sorry for the OT, just thought I'd answer in thread.
Everybody is your brother until the rent comes due.
I've removed the floor from the Prism. Nemaa, if you get the occassion to test it, please do so. You could probably test it really easily by throwing out a rank 1 earthshock until it crits, add up the total damage, subtract 1000, and then have a caster melee your mob until they pull aggro. If it's a Feint, they'll pull aggro at (damage done - 1000) * 1.1 damage. If it's a capped reduction then they'll pull aggro at (damage done - last damage done) * 1.1 damage.
Edit: I can't imagine that the MT window thing is related to Omen - I'll mention it to the oRA team, though. I saw some commits from them yesterday.
I've removed the floor from the Prism. Nemaa, if you get the occassion to test it, please do so. You could probably test it really easily by throwing out a rank 1 earthshock until it crits, add up the total damage, subtract 1000, and then have a caster melee your mob until they pull aggro. If it's a Feint, they'll pull aggro at (damage done - 1000) * 1.1 damage. If it's a capped reduction then they'll pull aggro at (damage done - last damage done) * 1.1 damage.
I'm eager to test it. Hope to see it dropped from Vashj soon.
I've removed the floor from the Prism. Nemaa, if you get the occassion to test it, please do so. You could probably test it really easily by throwing out a rank 1 earthshock until it crits, add up the total damage, subtract 1000, and then have a caster melee your mob until they pull aggro. If it's a Feint, they'll pull aggro at (damage done - 1000) * 1.1 damage. If it's a capped reduction then they'll pull aggro at (damage done - last damage done) * 1.1 damage.
One thing there, has it been conclusively shown yet that threat can be negative? If it can't be negative you'd need to generate 1000 aggro first for the test to be done properly.
Threat can't be negative, to the best of my knowledge. This shouldn't be a problem, though, since a sub-1000 crit would just reduce threat to 0, resulting in the first hit from the caster pulling aggro.
Just FYI, the issue reported last week with VR tanks disappearing seems to be gone now. We had none of our tanks disappear even after leashing him twice due to stupid people so the module was resetting fine.
This isn't exactly scientific, but yes, in general, the builds of Omen/Threat this week have been really polished, and I haven't had people complaining that it was bugging out on them or doing odd things.
If its in already and I missed it tell me, but I'd like to be able to lock my Omen to a specific target, create multiple windows of Omen for different mobs, and the ability to pause and continue Omen in mid combat, preserving threat until unpaused.
Thanks for the great work, this mod looks awesome.
a) Locking is coming
b) I don't plan on multi-window support right now; I may in the future, but it's not on the 1.0 wishlist. The pullout bars solve most of that particular problem,though.
c) I hadn't really considered a pause feature, but I could cause Omen to just stop updating its display easily enough, I suppose. Might be useful for snapshots after someone pulls aggro.
Care to provide your facts then? Specifically...events you profiled, functions you profiled, when you profiled it (start/middle/end of combat) along with what method of profiling did you use, were you using a mod that used the new CPU profiling or did it guess it itself. And no "It feels faster" or "It uses less memory" is not a valid answer.
If i'm wrong then i'd like to see the facts to prove it, but updating once every 5 seconds is faster then updating 4 times every 5 seconds, the only time it wouldn't be is during a fight where you have long periods of no combat, which is rather rare and could be solved by disabling polling as soon as you stop seeing messages after 20-25 seconds.
Originally Posted by Antiarc
Not yet, and I would love it if you could do so!
The basic procedure is to have your pet screech a few times, and note any damage they do. Make sure other skills, such as Dive and Growl are off.
Now, you melee the enemy (preferably with no weapon for smaller hits) until you pull aggro. Take your damage done, divide by 1.1, subtract the pet's damage done, and then divide the remainder by the number of times the pet screeched. This should be an approximate threat value for the pet, given that rank of Screech, though that doesn't consider pet AP scaling. If you want to be really thorough, then do that test with an unbuffed pet, then buff it by using Aspect of the Hawk and having a paladin or warrior cast Might or Battle Shout on the pet, then test it again to see if you end up with a significantly different value - if so, we may have a scaling skill on our hands.
As I understand it, Screech is single target damage + AOE debuff, so you may need to calculate its threat as:
[(your damage / 1.1) - (pet's non-Screech damage) - (pet's Screech damage)] / number of times screeched = Debuff threat per application for that rank of Screech. With that info, I shoul hopefully be able to just use the same mechanism I use for Demoralizing Shout et al, and properly apply AOE threat from the screech.
Archimedes Screech Shaleskin Flayer 57
Archimedes Screech Shaleskin Flayer 41
Archimedes Screech Shaleskin Flayer 49
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 31
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
You Melee Shaleskin Flayer 32
(Pulled aggro)
Pet AP doesn't buff Screech damage. Used Screech (Rank 5) "Blasts a single enemy for 33 to 61 damage and lowers the melee attack power of all enemies in melee range by 210. Effect lasts 4 sec.". Single target testing.
I did some other testing but didn't really note the damage. If you want more I can do it later tonight.
Threat can't be negative, to the best of my knowledge. This shouldn't be a problem, though, since a sub-1000 crit would just reduce threat to 0, resulting in the first hit from the caster pulling aggro.
Technically, it can -- Fade works on this mechanic. If I use Fade pre-emptively on a pull, if I cast something (a heal, for example) within the 10 seconds Fade is up, I still total as less than zero threat.
Easy to test: fade, have the tank body aggro something, and let it hit him a couple times, then heal him. You won't pull aggro off. Once the fade ... fades ... you will instantly get the threat back. It's negative, but only for a short duration.
I'm not sure what the problem is, but Omen flat out refuses to work on my home PC while it's working flawlessly on my laptop - what makes me wonder, as both wow folders are exactly the same.
The only difference is the omen version I'm using. On my home PC I've been using the latest versions since last sunday, while the laptops' been working with an older verion of the mod. I don't know what to make of this, but it's fairly irritating.
I'm not sure what the problem is, but Omen flat out refuses to work on my home PC while it's working flawlessly on my laptop - what makes me wonder, as both wow folders are exactly the same.
The only difference is the omen version I'm using. On my home PC I've been using the latest versions since last sunday, while the laptops' been working with an older verion of the mod. I don't know what to make of this, but it's fairly irritating.
If you're using AceUpdater, install the !!StandAloneLibraries. I've noticed that sometimes even if I have all Ace mods updated some of them won't work, however when I installed the StandAloneLibraries all my addons work like magic. No errors, no problems.
If you're using AceUpdater, install the !!StandAloneLibraries. I've noticed that sometimes even if I have all Ace mods updated some of them won't work, however when I installed the StandAloneLibraries all my addons work like magic. No errors, no problems.
No, I don't just WoWAceUpdater. I still tried to update StandAloneLibraries though, but no dice. It's not like the mod doesn't initialize. I can see the frame and the frame itself does work. It just doesn't show any values.
edit: Nevermind, Threat just needed to be updated.
Technically, it can -- Fade works on this mechanic. If I use Fade pre-emptively on a pull, if I cast something (a heal, for example) within the 10 seconds Fade is up, I still total as less than zero threat.
Easy to test: fade, have the tank body aggro something, and let it hit him a couple times, then heal him. You won't pull aggro off. Once the fade ... fades ... you will instantly get the threat back. It's negative, but only for a short duration.
I'm pretty certain it isn't negative as such. Fade basically works by 'shrouding' a fixed amount of threat you have for the duration the spell lasts, if you have less total threat than the threat 'shrouded' by Fade, you basically remain treated as if you have 0 threat.
Your test also doesn't show it best, if fade could turn threat negative, one would be best off testing this through having a person body pull, healing him once which should immediately get you aggro, and then fading; this comes closer to proving the existence of negative threat or not, since the Fade would either result in both of you being 0 aggro (And thus the mob continuing to hit you), or you going below 0 aggro, and thus the mob changing target to the guy that body pulled for the duration.
Your test also doesn't show it best, if fade could turn threat negative, one would be best off testing this through having a person body pull, healing him once which should immediately get you aggro, and then fading; this comes closer to proving the existence of negative threat or not, since the Fade would either result in both of you being 0 aggro (And thus the mob continuing to hit you), or you going below 0 aggro, and thus the mob changing target to the guy that body pulled for the duration.
Or simply have a priest body-pull a mob over another player, putting them in combat, then fade.
As regards rank 1 shocks, negative threat, and 'intendedness' -
* This seems comparable with rank 1 scorch to proc clearcasting
* Actual behaviour in a corner-case immediately after a new effect is introduced seems only weakly correlated with intended behaviour
@Chicken: Your test is not good as well. The mob will not change target to the guy that body pulled, even if threat is negative. Target calculation is not done at every moment, you should do something to pull aggro.
If the guy who body pulled do nothing, the mob will never hit him again, even if its threat is higher than the priest's threat
I'm pretty certain it isn't negative as such. Fade basically works by 'shrouding' a fixed amount of threat you have for the duration the spell lasts, if you have less total threat than the threat 'shrouded' by Fade, you basically remain treated as if you have 0 threat.
Your test also doesn't show it best, if fade could turn threat negative, one would be best off testing this through having a person body pull, healing him once which should immediately get you aggro, and then fading; this comes closer to proving the existence of negative threat or not, since the Fade would either result in both of you being 0 aggro (And thus the mob continuing to hit you), or you going below 0 aggro, and thus the mob changing target to the guy that body pulled for the duration.
This is correct. Fade is a buff that reduces your threat by 1500. If you cast Fade and then generate 1000 points of aggro, your aggro is now [MAX(0,1000-1500)] = 0. If you generate another 600 after that, with Fade still on you, your aggro is now [MAX(0,1600-1500)] = 100.
This is correct. Fade is a buff that reduces your threat by 1500. If you cast Fade and then generate 1000 points of aggro, your aggro is now [MAX(0,1000-1500)] = 0. If you generate another 600 after that, with Fade still on you, your aggro is now [MAX(0,1600-1500)] = 100.
Hmm - not convinced. As far as I can see, nothing in your scenario would change if the priest faded to -1500, then came up to -500, and then finally to 100.
How do you distinguish between a flooring-at-zero scenario and genuinely negative threat?
Only way I can think of is to let a rogue get initial aggro. Then take two priests, have one generate 500 threat and another generate 1000. Both priests fade. Rogue then vanishes, removing himself completely from the aggro list.
Presumably one of the priests then gets aggro. If they're both floored to zero, then (perhaps?) the closest one will get aggro. If on the other hand there genuinely is negative threat, then the one at -500 will consistently get aggro ahead of the one at -1000.
Edit: This is beginning to sound like the physics of renormalisation and zero-point energy...
You can prove there is no negative threat by having Player A hit a mob for 100. Rogue B walks over and Feints repeatedly. Then B hits the mob a couple of times, and see what happens.
Can anyone confirm that -threat skills and spells are affected by threat modifiers like salvation in a "wrong way"? Like prism of inner calm's -1000 threat will be modifyed to -700 with BoS?
06/29/07, 9:53 AM
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