Omen - Ace Threat Meter - Page 44

Osse · 07/02/07, 8:28 AM

Noticed the tank dropping last night on Morogrim and Vashj.

the tank was running KTM and I had r42328.

This is how it happened at Vashj every single time.

Fight starts, first ~15k the tank is on top
After that tank just doesnt gain threat in the list and there's 5-6 people above him in the list but he still has aggro.
At around 50-55k tank all of a sudden comes on top of the list to where he should be.

Only had this problem for the last couple nights. :|

Imba · 07/02/07, 9:54 AM

I got an idea on how to fix my UI, but i was wondering if it is possible to hide Omen while I'm in arena, because i want to put gladiator frame in same position while playing arena.

Marroc · 07/02/07, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Qrt

Here,s a shot of Omen just after I feigned death. The 'warrior' just above is my pet and not a slacker ^^, but I'd like to know why I'm at negative threat-per-second. If my threat is erased and then slightly adding up again it should be at 0 TPS just after feign and then rising?

no not really.

TPS is a number showing your averaged threat per second over a certain window of time.

So if you FD, for that window of time you actually have a huge negative TPS (as you just dumped all of your agro). After 1 window of time passes, your threat should start climbing back into the positives.

Antiarc · 07/02/07, 12:59 PM

I've noticed that everyone reporting that the tank is dropping off is on EU servers - I VERY highly suspect this is due to the mob name translation that Threat does in multi-locale groups, but I haven't been able to prove it yet. I play enUS, and haven't seen this happen, so I suspect this is what's happening.

I made some changes to the translation code last night that I hoped would solve those problems; see if they go away with the latest revision, if possible. I will keep an eye out for other problems, though.

If you do get problems, then do me a favor and run:

/script AceLibrary("Threat-1.0"):DumpTranslationTable()

And screenshot the output for me.

Kalman · 07/02/07, 1:38 PM

Originally Posted by Marroc

no not really.

TPS is a number showing your averaged threat per second over a certain window of time.

So if you FD, for that window of time you actually have a huge negative TPS (as you just dumped all of your agro). After 1 window of time passes, your threat should start climbing back into the positives.

Not quite. The way TPS calculation is implemented in Omen is as a first-order IIR filter (also known as an RC filter) for memory/calculation reasons. Antiarc originally had a function that zeroed out the TPS filter memory element (to prevent exactly this from happening) on Feign/Vanish, but he newbed it up and removed it. :p

Once that goes back in, negative threat on Feign will go away again.

Osse · 07/02/07, 2:49 PM

Hmm?

Will soon see if the tank dropping is fixed as raid is about to start. :p

Antiarc · 07/02/07, 2:56 PM

I don't think it will be fixed, unfortunately; I'm auditing the code right now and found at least one bug that might affect it. I can't test it right now, so I'm not going to make a commit, but with luck I should have it fixed tonight.

Osse · 07/02/07, 3:00 PM

Yup, maintank just didnt gain threat after 6-8k.

Antiarc · 07/02/07, 4:00 PM

Can you take a screencap of this for me:

/script AceLibrary("Threat-1.0"):DumpTranslationTable()

Osse · 07/02/07, 4:16 PM

http://surl.se/picture/20077/63763.jpg

Only get those weird marks when I do that.

Xerophyte · 07/02/07, 4:16 PM

I've had KTM users complain about me either falling off the meter or bouncing between two values (30k and 60k when it happened, as I recall) in 5-man parties with only real life friends that I know are fully enGB. However, there are spanish, german & belgian players in my raid group so if this is potentially a lingering interference problem that'd explain it. Will bear the dumping and screencapping in mind next time I hear about it, though.

Antiarc · 07/02/07, 5:41 PM

Okay, that would seem to indicate that translation isn't active for you, which means that either everyone has your same locale, you have an older version that wouldn't activate translation if you were the only person of your locale in a two-locale group, or it's not kicking on for some other reason.

Do you know if any of your groupmates use a locale other than your own?

Xerophyte, I'll check out the bouncing problem - I know what it may be.

Unaz · 07/02/07, 6:41 PM

Noticed a couple issues with Omen last night (Omen 42328 and Threat 41569 I believe).

The first was when we were on Karathress. The threat bars didn't seem to all be refreshing as I switched from one boss to the next (as each died). I would see my threat bar, and I believe the threat warning was still working (screen flashing red etc, but can't be positive I got high enough on threat on those). But no other threat bars wold show outside of mine. Randomly I would see the tank's bar show up however. When we do him again this week I'll pay more attention and snap some screenshots if it's still happening.

The second I actually have a Fraps of: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...49290471&hl=en

It was from our Hydross kill last night (same versions). If you notice, it resets each phase transition and seems to judge aggro nicely, but the bars aren't consistantly redrawing to the full width, so it's hard to see where I actually am on aggro until it refreshes. I ended up relying on the 90% warning for most of it. About one third of us are actually using Threat, the rest using KTM. Our nature tank has Threat loaded, frost tank just has KTM (waiting on stable build).

One coment on the sounds is msot of them don't seem loud enough to catch my attention, I've been using the cheer as that seemed to be the most noticeable. Also, the screen red glow is the same as the one Deadly Boss mods likes to use (although I believe I can change that one), and may be confused with other critical warnings then high aggro on certain fights (like cave in on gruul), resulting in not knowing what you're supposed to be scared of.

Although the noise helps me tell the difference.

One last comment which may be fixed by now, but I was unable to reliably reproduce. On Gruul last week, I had pulled out the off Tank's aggro bar right before the fight. And it stuck to my cursor... No matter what I did, the pullout bar wouldn't release my cursor. I couldn't click on any of my buttons, or even use the right mouse button to turn. It lasted the whole fight and finally released the mouse cursor when he died.

I was typing '/cast Strength of Earth totem' and '/cast Bloodlust' etc, it was awesome

The only thing I can think of is I got caught when combat started before I dropped the frame off the mouse cursor, but I'm fairly positive I tried to place it before then. I haven't been able to reproduce yet, but haven't tried pulling out the frame before combat without dropping yet.

Marroc · 07/02/07, 7:45 PM

Originally Posted by Unaz

The only thing I can think of is I got caught when combat started before I dropped the frame off the mouse cursor, but I'm fairly positive I tried to place it before then. I haven't been able to reproduce yet, but haven't tried pulling out the frame before combat without dropping yet.

That is exactly what happened. There is no way around it that I've found, save for not dragging things when you go into combat.

Happens with just about every mod I can think of that uses click to drag for positioning things.

what happens is this:

Start out of combat.
Start dragging.
Get into combat.
Stop dragging.
Frame will stick to mouse.

Antiarc · 07/02/07, 8:17 PM

Thanks for the steps to reproduce, Marroc. I'll see if I can knock this out.

Unaz, the warning is the same as Deadly Boss Mods because they both use a built-in but little-known Blizzard frame. I can see if perhaps I can allow the user to change the color of the frame, so you could set a yellow frame or something for aggro warnings.

I think the width thing on Hydross was due to KTM data - obviously, the widest bar is 100%, and all other bars are scaled relative to that bar. If KTM wasn't resetting threat between phases, then one person would have continued to accumulate threat numbers that would have skewed the bars considerably. I'm not sure how to best handle this, though - scaling based on just the visible bars could be misleading, but scaling based on funky KTM data is hard to read. Any thoughts?

Marroc · 07/02/07, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Antiarc

Thanks for the steps to reproduce, Marroc. I'll see if I can knock this out.

Unaz, the warning is the same as Deadly Boss Mods because they both use a built-in but little-known Blizzard frame. I can see if perhaps I can allow the user to change the color of the frame, so you could set a yellow frame or something for aggro warnings.

I think the width thing on Hydross was due to KTM data - obviously, the widest bar is 100%, and all other bars are scaled relative to that bar. If KTM wasn't resetting threat between phases, then one person would have continued to accumulate threat numbers that would have skewed the bars considerably. I'm not sure how to best handle this, though - scaling based on just the visible bars could be misleading, but scaling based on funky KTM data is hard to read. Any thoughts?

not sure how KTM is throwing data to Omen, but if it's just reports of 'i have x threat now' then you can do something like the following (though may be a little dirty).

Change threat wiping to something like this:

Start threat wipe
Save current KTM players agro
Wipe omen threat
Calculate KTM players threat as reported threat - saved threat from before the wipe

The only thing that would break it is if KTM reports a threat level under the Omen saved level, but I think you could compensate for that simply by using some threshold. 100% agro dumps don't mater as they'll reset KTM data for you, so you need to only worry about partial dumps. Maybe use an if clause to check to see if the next ktm report says their threat is within X threshold of the saved threat (ie. if it's not really close to 0 on the next threat update then ktm didn't wipe threat).

dr_AllCOM3 · 07/02/07, 10:58 PM

Leotheras works very fine with the resets, Hydross is ok too.

Areus · 07/03/07, 3:15 AM

Did Leo tonight, the only issue with threat was people not leaving the list if they died during a Whirlwind, and the transition from Demon -> Human the aggro table was not wiped either. It is a timed phase so maybe that can be implimented. The revision used for the fight was -r42522.

• sp00n · 07/03/07, 5:36 AM

Originally Posted by Antiarc

Okay, that would seem to indicate that translation isn't active for you, which means that either everyone has your same locale, you have an older version that wouldn't activate translation if you were the only person of your locale in a two-locale group, or it's not kicking on for some other reason.

Do you know if any of your groupmates use a locale other than your own?

Well he's playing on an English server and I don't see any reason that anyone would play on an English server without the English version.
Now that Blizzard has decided to translate *everything* in this game, including proper names, it would cause more confusion than actually help.

So the chances are good that it's actually 'English only' in their raid group.

Besides, the only group I can really think of that would have joined an English server and are now having a different client resp. did have a different client at any time, are those from Spain/maybe Portugal, because the Spanish translation didn't exist when WoW was launched in Europe.

Ronnie · 07/03/07, 7:38 AM

Antiarc, I did some testing on the Prism of Inner Calm. It seems like you did the right thing removing the floor from the handler.

Test done while naked in scarlet monastery (removed some lines to make it more readable).

7/3 13:08:31.984 You hit Scarlet Defender for 36. (21 blocked)
7/3 13:08:32.609 Scarlet Defender hits you for 108.
7/3 13:08:40.375 You crit Scarlet Defender for 109.
7/3 13:08:40.640 Scarlet Defender hits you for 113.
7/3 13:08:46.671 You cast Summon Tracking Hound.
7/3 13:08:46.671 Scarlet Defender hits you for 108.
7/3 13:08:46.906 Tracking Hound hits Scarlet Defender for 3. (glancing)
7/3 13:08:50.625 Scarlet Defender hits Tracking Hound for 98. (crushing)

TLDR: I hit the mob for 36, generating 29 threat, then critted it for 109 which generated 87 threat respectively. Prism removed 150 of my total threat, effectively setting me at 0, which can be easily seen as my summoned lvl20 pet pulled aggro with a 3 damage hit.

Splatter · 07/03/07, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Antiarc

This sounds very much like a localization problem. However, Omen does transparent localization of mob names to account for that; if it's not working, then that would explain this particular issue.

Hi,
we raided SSC yesterday on 2.july with Omen and Threat-1.0-r42450.zip and we had big problems. It was the 1st time we forced all raidmembers to delete KTM and just use Omen/Threat-1.0 (all updated to the same version) because we do not like KTM that much and Threat-1.0 seems to have much more potential. In our raid we have some people playing with the enGB client (like i do) and other with the german client (about 70%) what seems to have caused the trouble. The data between german clients and english clients were totaly broken. The data between englich clients were mostly correct.
Was it a problem only with this version (42450) or will it be a problem in the future? Where is localization handeled? Can i help you with the localization?

After the raid we startet testing Threat-1.0 in a party on some elite mobs and after that we were sure it is a localization problem.
But Threat-1.0 should work 100% with german clients? Or is still some work to do with localization?

koaschten · 07/03/07, 8:11 AM

Well localization should be done by the Babble-Library from the Ace-Framework. If Babble doesnt know a mob in german and english it cant translate.

Threat does handle the aggro-table on a mob-name based system. So if Threat failes, its most probably due to mobs having different names because of localization and no translation in babble.

Splatter · 07/03/07, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

Well localization should be done by the Babble-Library from the Ace-Framework. If Babble doesnt know a mob in german and english it cant translate.

Threat does handle the aggro-table on a mob-name based system. So if Threat failes, its most probably due to mobs having different names because of localization and no translation in babble.

So maybe Babble was broken yesterday? Is it better to install Omen, Threat-1.0 and Babble-2.2 seperated?

koaschten · 07/03/07, 8:45 AM

The more interesting question is, does babble already know about all the mob names and localized versions in SSC, TK, Hyjal and BT?
I cant tell you, as though playing on a german server i wouldnt touch the german client with a 3 feet stick.

Splatter · 07/03/07, 8:51 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

The more interesting question is, does babble already know about all the mob names and localized versions in SSC, TK, Hyjal and BT?
I cant tell you, as though playing on a german server i wouldnt touch the german client with a 3 feet stick.

The 1st thing I did after TBC was realeased I organized an english client

But some of our raidmembers do not speak english nor able to read it. I just had a look at the Babble-2.2 libs and most of the mobs are listed in it. Further testing is needed.