Omen - Ace Threat Meter - Page 67

Douglas · 08/20/07, 6:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kazanir

In the 66 pages of this thread, this may have been covered already and I missed it. Apologies if so.

Last night I had my entire raid install Omen. I was suddenly unable to open my raid frame to change group members while in combat. The only changes I had made were to enable Omen and disable KTM. I had been able to change group members no problem earlier that night, and other members of the raid with Omen were able to move groups fine as well.

Thoughts?

I've been having similar things happen to me. Installing Omen and Recount seems to have tainted many of my raid unit frames. Whenever I notice the problem, I can disable Omen and Recount and nothing else at all, and the problem goes away.

It is not a constant problem. I think it might vary by the nightly build I'm using. I have not had the time to dig into the precise details -- I'm not really a LUA developer, and don't have tools to detect taint at my fingertips. I have mostly been trying new nightlies in the hopes that it'll just clear up, and hoping for a fully-released non-beta version that takes care of it.

In the meantime, I'm hoping to figure out how to install "Threat" all on its own, with no UI, so folks around me who use Omen can gather data from me without having to have the mod active myself.

(I do not have any "deep" unit frame mods installed at all. The location of my frames is modified by TitanPanel, which shoves them down a wee bit, and the behavior of my frames is modified by Clique, which makes them respond to modified clicks differently. I think those are the only mods I have installed that modify my unit frames at all. I do not really have a very mod-heavy setup. If you were to look at my screen, the only things that would look different than the default Blizzard UIs would be TitanPanel and a bunch of little knobby bits around the edge of my minimap.)

sp00n · 08/21/07, 5:17 AM

Originally Posted by Douglas

I've been having similar things happen to me. Installing Omen and Recount seems to have tainted many of my raid unit frames. Whenever I notice the problem, I can disable Omen and Recount and nothing else at all, and the problem goes away.

I haven't got the tainted frames issues for quite some time, since I got rid of some old addons (like ImprovedErrorFrame), and I use both Omen and Recount.

However, when I still had the issues with tainted frames (couldn't open up social frame for example), Omen was showing me weird results as well. So there may be a correlation, if some addon taints the frames, Omen will start to act weird.

Jandari · 08/22/07, 1:14 PM

Sometimes, not often, our mage's water elementals will skyrocket rght at the start of a fight to the top of the threat list. WAY higher than everyone else. But they don't actually have the mob's aggro.

I've noticed this two week's in a row on Void Reaver for whatever that's worth. After a minute or two the rest of the raid's threat overtakes the water elementals and all is good. But something is screwy sometimes at the start of combat. (Not sure, maybe that's when they are summoned?)

Sealclubber · 08/22/07, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jandari

Sometimes, not often, our mage's water elementals will skyrocket rght at the start of a fight to the top of the threat list. WAY higher than everyone else. But they don't actually have the mob's aggro.

I've noticed this two week's in a row on Void Reaver for whatever that's worth. After a minute or two the rest of the raid's threat overtakes the water elementals and all is good. But something is screwy sometimes at the start of combat. (Not sure, maybe that's when they are summoned?)

If multiple elementals are being summoned they are counted as a single entity since they have exactly the same names, so Omen can't distinguish between them and the threat from them get combined into one elemental on the meter.

Jameseh · 08/23/07, 10:40 AM

A slightly random but very minor bug, thought I'd report it anyhow.

Pet threat doesn't seem to be clearing correctly, it'll just stay static at what it was before the reset.

xs.to - Hosting - Omen.jpg

Haven is a hunter pet.

Marroc · 08/23/07, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jameseh

A slightly random but very minor bug, thought I'd report it anyhow.

Pet threat doesn't seem to be clearing correctly, it'll just stay static at what it was before the reset.

xs.to - Hosting - Omen.jpg

Haven is a hunter pet.

Already known :P

Completely unrelated... Anyone know what happened to Antiarc? He hasn't responded in a while >_<

Xenoborg · 08/23/07, 11:46 AM

I know it was mentioned as an issue a while again by Antiarc, but Feign and Soulshatter resist are still improperly clearing threat. I can image this would be hard to fix as they for some reason don't have their results output in the combat log

Neofite · 08/23/07, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Marroc

Already known :P

Completely unrelated... Anyone know what happened to Antiarc? He hasn't responded in a while >_<

I heard/saw(cant remember where) something about him being on Vacation, but i could be wrong.

Antiarc · 08/23/07, 2:39 PM

Hey folks. I'm just around - been super busy, as I recently quit my job and am working on my own company now. I still plan to maintain Omen - in fact, I made a number of fixes during SSC last night that look to have cleared up a lot of the problems with threat clears - and will be committing them as soon as I've had a bit more time to test them

Sorry for being so lax in responding to this thread.

Edit: Feign should be working properly. Soulshatter I'm still at a loss how to handle, other than just bumping up the delay before the clear.

Evel · 08/23/07, 2:40 PM

So I posted this on the WoWAce forums, but I figured I'd post here too incase someone over here has experienced the same problem.

About two weeks ago I got my entire guild to go ahead and switch to Omen and either disable or delete KTM all together. Last night I noticed (according to my Omen) that no one was really close to me in threat (I am the MT). The second person on the list was about 60K below me and I asked on Vent if people were holding back and the entire raid claimed that 3 people were pushing 110% (which is over me) and several were holding just below me. Luckily my wife sits 2 feet away from me and I asked her to verify and she did so I asked her to tell me what my threat was so I could compare with my Omen and according to hers I was pushing around 50 to 300 TPS where as on my screen at the same time I was pushing between 600 and 800 TPS.

I had everyone verify that they at least had KTM disabled or deleted and I ran the version checker and everyone was running compatible versions with exception to a Holy Paladin that was not running KTM or Omen at all. I did manage to take a screenshot (and I got my wife to at the same time) of the dramatic threat differences.

Anyone have a clue as to what could be happening?

Antiarc · 08/23/07, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

[Prism of Inner Calm] is valued too high I think.
I pulled aggro at 100% and had lots of crits.

Edit:
Found it.
if trinket1ID == 30621 or trinket2ID == 30621 then
self.meleeCritReduction = 150 -> 105
self.spellCritReduction = 1000 -> 700

Where do you get those numbers? Last I saw, they were documented at 150/1000 (or was it nerfed?)

Regarding taint...well, I obviously run Omen, but I haven't seen any tainting issues pop up with it. I don't think Omen does anything at all to the raid frames.

About the healer/warrior dropping off of the meter, that's one that I -think- I may have nailed last night, but I'm not positive. I want to test again in a clear-heavy environment (Hydross, Leotheras) to be sure.

◊ Praetorian · 08/23/07, 3:16 PM

Wait a minute.... Are you multiplying the threat reduction by passive threat modifiers? Because I'm pretty sure that's how flat-value threat reduction works.

The Prism might be -1000 threat on spell crits, but if you have BoSalv, then it's actually only -700 threat. Right? Does Threat take that into account?

tvelocity · 08/23/07, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Wait a minute.... Are you multiplying the threat reduction by passive threat modifiers? Because I'm pretty sure that's how flat-value threat reduction works.

The Prism might be -1000 threat on spell crits, but if you have BoSalv, then it's actually only -700 threat. Right? Does Threat take that into account?

Yes it does

function ThreatClassModuleCore.modulePrototype:parseDamage(info)
	if not ThreatLib.running then
		return
	end
	if info.recipientID and UnitIsPlayer(info.recipientID) then
		return
	end
	
	local threat = info.amount
	local skill = info[abilityName]
	
	local element = info[damageType]
	if info.isCrit then
		if self.meleeCritReduction > 0 and element == "Physical" then
			threat = threat - self.meleeCritReduction
		elseif self.spellCritReduction > 0 and element ~= "Physical" then
			threat = threat - self.spellCritReduction
		end
	end
	
	if skill then
		self:commitOldestTransactionFor(skill)
	end
	
	local handler = self.abilityThreatMods[skill]
	if handler then
		threat = handler(self, threat, true, info.isCrit)
	end
	
	handler = self.schoolThreatMods[element]
	if handler then
		threat = handler(self, threat, true, info.isCrit)
	end
	threat = threat * self:threatMods()
	
	local recipient = info[recipientName]
	self:_addTargetThreat(threat, recipient, self.redirectThreatTo)
end

Notice how threat = threat * self:threatMods() is after applying the prism effect.

Enkidu · 08/24/07, 9:37 AM

Antiarc do you think reflected spells could be implemented? They generate threat on a 1:1 ratio, stance modifiers do apply however I did not try Defiance (will try to do so later today).
The combat log message should be under creature damage versus other I believe:
8/22 20:15:19.031 Crystalcore Sentinel 's Overcharge is reflected back by Exigie.
8/22 20:15:20.265 Crystalcore Sentinel 's Overcharge hits Crystalcore Sentinel for 15992 Arcane damage.

Marroc · 08/24/07, 10:09 AM

The issue with reflects iirc is that there isn't a way to be 100% sure as to who reflected it. If two warriors reflect 2 different spells at the same time, you can't attribute the damage properly.

Enkidu · 08/24/07, 11:56 AM

While it would need some logic, if SCT can do it to show on screen I don't see why Omen could not. How often will multiple warriors reflect the same spell at the same time (barring things like Geyser in SSC)? I'll try to get some log examples of 2 warriors reflecting the same effect. Currently as it is not including Spell Reflect makes Omen quite inaccurate for those situations, there are many mobs in the game you can hold threat on by reflecting damage alone.
Different spells or even the same spells on different named mobs should not matter; the combat log says specifically the name of the effect reflected and the mob casting the effect.

Antiarc · 08/24/07, 1:46 PM

I'll see what I can figure out for spell reflect. Worst comes to worst, I'll see how the SCT-type addons do it.

Marroc · 08/24/07, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Antiarc

I'll see what I can figure out for spell reflect. Worst comes to worst, I'll see how the SCT-type addons do it.

Pretty sure you just get a "Reflected!" type message :P

stampy · 08/24/07, 3:31 PM

Unless they've changed this within the last six weeks or so (I tend to just use eavesdrop, I almost never look at a raw combat log), there is a "<warrior> reflects <spell>" or "<warrior> reflects <mob>'s <spell>" type message, as well as a "<mob> hits <mob> with <spell>" message. I can almost guarantee that isn't the exact wording.

Unfortunately, it is not "<warrior> reflects <mob's> <spell> for <damage>".

I believe SCT just matches up a warrior reflecting a mob's spell with that same mob hitting themself, within a short time frame. I haven't actually looked at the code, but I started the thread on wowinteface where Greyhoof decided to implement it; and that was the method discussed. I think Greyhoof made it as accurate as possible, but its still pretty shaky.

For a threat meter, I cant imagine there will be a reliable way to track reflections, and it isnt as ok to miss threat as it is in SCT, where it will at least still say "reflect," and just omit the amount of damage. Then again, I guess it would never overestimate the threat, which is probably the safest behavior for a warrior with a shield out... as long as the implementation moves it closer to perfect, without overestimating a tanks threat, its probably a good addition.

koaschten · 08/24/07, 4:24 PM

Additionally you could parse for data like "x gains Spell Reflection" and "y casts spell at x" and cross-reference it.

Stan · 08/25/07, 4:23 PM

There's a problem with shadowghost clearing. It stays in the list even if it's allready dead and you moved to another target.

Antiarc · 08/26/07, 9:16 PM

I checked in a fix last night for people whose threat stops updating periodically, then reappears after the fight.

Also, Omen got a mention in the September issue of Game Informer!

• astearns · 08/27/07, 1:12 AM

I had a problem today with WoW crashing, and I think it was Omen. I was doing the Lasher quest in Netherstorm where you use a quest item on them and they turn angry. I'd charge them and whittle them down a bit before using the device, then when they transformed I got a generic Nil Value error. 2 out of 3 times WoW then crashed. I disabled Omen (guessing it was getting confused as to the targets) and did not encounter the error again.

Idris · 08/27/07, 8:10 AM

Our guild has recently migrated to Omen from KTM and yesterday at Morogrim 24 out of 25 people had Omen (the remaining one still had KTM). We all have relatively fresh versions of Omen, ie no more than 2 weeks old.

Me and my raid leader both play a rogue and were assigned to just dps Morogrim throughout the fight. Relatively early on in the fight I was just intending to blow all my cooldowns gearing up for a vanish when the RL told me to watch my aggro. This surprised me a lot as on my Omen I was comfortably behind both the main tank and him, but I vanished anyway.

After the fight I asked why he had warned me and he said I had been well above him and very close to the tank on his Omen. Now, this actually made more sense to me since I had been wondering about my low threat as I started dps a bit earlier than him and was generally not holding back. Any idea why our Omens would show different threat for me? This is really worrying as now I don't know whether I can trust my threat meter at all.

Marroc · 08/27/07, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by Idris

Our guild has recently migrated to Omen from KTM and yesterday at Morogrim 24 out of 25 people had Omen (the remaining one still had KTM). We all have relatively fresh versions of Omen, ie no more than 2 weeks old.

Me and my raid leader both play a rogue and were assigned to just dps Morogrim throughout the fight. Relatively early on in the fight I was just intending to blow all my cooldowns gearing up for a vanish when the RL told me to watch my aggro. This surprised me a lot as on my Omen I was comfortably behind both the main tank and him, but I vanished anyway.

After the fight I asked why he had warned me and he said I had been well above him and very close to the tank on his Omen. Now, this actually made more sense to me since I had been wondering about my low threat as I started dps a bit earlier than him and was generally not holding back. Any idea why our Omens would show different threat for me? This is really worrying as now I don't know whether I can trust my threat meter at all.

Two weeks is like 10-15 revisions apart... Do keep in mind that Omen is still beta quality, and as such it updates OFTEN, sometimes multiple times per day.