Recount - A Graphical Damage Meter/Raid Analysis Tool - Page 47

Wryy · 08/10/07, 7:34 PM

Sorry for the nub question, but how exactly is it opened once its been hidden? Is there any nifty troggle button?

Ailetha · 08/10/07, 7:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wryy

Sorry for the nub question, but how exactly is it opened once its been hidden? Is there any nifty troggle button?

/recount show

lazerpewpew · 08/10/07, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wryy

Sorry for the nub question, but how exactly is it opened once its been hidden? Is there any nifty troggle button?

/recount hide
/recount show

Kytrarewn · 08/10/07, 9:55 PM

Originally Posted by Wryy

Sorry for the nub question, but how exactly is it opened once its been hidden? Is there any nifty troggle button?

There's also a minimap button that you can set up if your minimap isn't completely cluttered yet.

On another note, though:

Since I've begun running Recount, my own personal DamageMeters have not been playing nicely with others. Other people get my data fine, and in fact it seems to sync fine, but my meters miss damage from all but like 3 people.

Do you have any idea why this might be, or even if it can be attributed to Recount at all? Anyone else have this problem?

Druitt · 08/10/07, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by nfw

Maim isn't an interrupt effect, shield bash, pummel, kick, counterspell, spell lock are interrupts (school lockdown for X seconds). Feral charge might be an interrupt, but the description implies a blanket silence for 4 seconds (or just a root of 4 seconds with no school lockdown).

Edit: earthshock too.

What is the technical implication of this? Does it mean that it's difficult to detect Interrupts? Or are you saying that only silences count as interrupts?

In my mind, Maim, Feral Charge (Pounce, and Earth Shock, too) should all be counted as Interrupts if physically possible, since they do in fact stop a mob or player from doing something they intended to do. Even if the interrupted target can immediately recast, that's several more seconds delay and also opens a window for someone else to interrupt or silence -- so I see a difference from mere damage pushback.

Druitt · 08/10/07, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by zenmaran

When I leave a raid group the data for all the other people in the raid dissapears, what i want to do is review the data after the raid has finished. Is this possible?

Not sure if it's Recount or other damage meters, but the usual trick in such situations is to set the prefs to show those outside of your raid/party.

sp00n · 08/11/07, 9:11 AM

Hm, maybe you could automatically switch from Current Fight to the last fight when combat is over?

Currently, when you select current fight only, you see the bars only for a few seconds after the combat has ended and you have to select the last fight by hand. Switching this automatically would offer a bit of comfort, since a blank window isn't very helpful.

Maybe you could even automatically switch to Current Fight again when you enter combat, but that might bring some problems when you are just looking into the data.

zenmaran · 08/11/07, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Druitt

Not sure if it's Recount or other damage meters, but the usual trick in such situations is to set the prefs to show those outside of your raid/party.

Oh yeah i see it now, in the settings i didnt have the "Ungrouped" boxes ticked =)

Druitt · 08/11/07, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Hm, maybe you could automatically switch from Current Fight to the last fight when combat is over?

Currently, when you select current fight only, you see the bars only for a view seconds after the combat has ended and you have to select the last fight by hand. Switching this automatically would offer a bit of comfort, since a blank window isn't very helpful.

Maybe you could even automatically switch to Current Fight again when you enter combat, but that might bring some problems when you are just looking into the data.

Very good suggestion! Add two new options: 1) Out of Combat (View Last Fight, View Overall), and 2) In Combat (View Current fight, View Last Fight, View Overall). The option would set what is switched to when you first enter or exit combat, so if you manually override -- say select a particular fight -- it won't be re-switched on you.

Also, arrange the fights in the menu in reverse order, with the last at the top (i.e. the closest selection to choose, as you'll most likely want to review more recent fights versus older fights).

Cryect · 08/11/07, 10:05 PM

Today, I've been mainly working on Relog (something along the lines of Unilog except it also stores Unit information and uses tags for the display of data). Its in the early stages but its somewhat usable though filtering I'm afraid is a little restricted to just well filtering (can't multipass filter and expand selections yet). The table display mode though is basically pretty much fully working. You can resize, remove, or add new columns at will based on tags.

Originally Posted by Druitt

Did a little more poking around and found some more differences between Recap and Recount.

1. Recount counts me as bing in combat considerably longer than Recap, resulting in substantially lower DPS numbers -- at least while soloing. For example, one fight lasted 14 seconds according to Recap, but 17.5 (16.16 credited to the mob, 1.37 credited to me) in Recount. In a long fight, the 4 extra seconds would disappear, I guess, but...

2. Recap counts my OOC heals, while Recount does not.

3. Recount showed my Rip ticks, but did not show the number of Rip applications, while Recap showed both. (May be a Druid issue.)

4. Not sure what Recount considers an "Interrupt". I used Maim against a caster to stop a heal, but it did not count as an Interrupt against that caster. (May be a Druid issue.)

TO add some more on the drill-down perception, I think Recap gives more levels of aggregation -- easily accessible/bypassable -- and that makes me feel like I can see more. For example...

I look at the collapsed titlebar and see the stat that matters to me (say DPS when I'm in a DPS role). Then I mouse over it and it pops up the party listing, where I've customized it to show more summary stats for each party member. Then I can select a party member and see one of three pages (the first modal selection I've made): Incoming, Outgoing, Summary, or Misc. If I choose Outgoing, I see all outgoing abilities color-coded by type (healing, damage, etc) and subtotaled as appropriate (melee damage, other damage, etc). Then I can select a particular ability and get the details.

In Recount, the initial table is not as flexible, and it is more modal. I can then drill down on a particular player to the incoming damage, outgoing damage, etc, level with no intermediate summarization. The "missing" level of aggregation feels like I'm missing something. As well as the navigation feels more modal than Recap.

Does that make sense? I guess it's sort of like why I like RPN calculators: I see results along the way instead of just results at the end.

So my second-look summary of the two would be:

Recap: I really like its navigation and its intermediate data summaries. It feels non-modal and natural, and it feels like you flow from data to data. (I also like that it seems to give me higher DPS while soloing.) And I like being able to put it in "Last Fight" mode so I can easily see if changes in gear or tactics seem to be making a difference. (On the other hand, there's no way to look at two fights ago: you only get overall stats or last-fight stats.)

Recount: Feels more modal and segmented navigateion-wise. Tracks task-oriented events so you get a better feel for teamwork and who is doing their assignments. Graphs give a nice higher-level view of fights. Tracks threat, which Recap does not, and which is obviously a big thing for groups. Tracks the last N fights, so you can look back on each individually, whereas Recap only tracks overall or last fight. Graphs allow more direct comparisons between players (which can be good or sometimes bad).

Thanks!

(P.S. I asked for a way to track how long a trinket's proc'd aura was up because I have a trinket that provides a nice buff (chance-on-hit) but I suspect that it is procing less at higher levels than it did when I first got it. If the buff is active as often as the tooltip indicates, it's a pretty nice, lelatively obscure trinket. Inquiring minds and all...)

1. Thats due to adding 3.5 seconds in case the player is opening up with a 3.5 second cast.
2. Thats actually a hidden option that I need to reveal in the config screen.
3. Yeah, not tracking applications since would require I do more than parse the combat log
4. Unfortunately maim isn't classified as an interrupt so no message is triggered.

Yeah, I need to add a stat to the title bar plus allow a way for it to minimize.

On the missing intermediate feeling. I know what you mean though its hard to express the best way to solve that but will definitely be keeping that in mind for Recount 2.0. The way the data is shown in Recount really reflects the data structures and I went for a display more in copying SWStats/DamageMeters since those are the defacto right now. I probably will go with a more WWS type display and flow of information for Recount 2.0 with data being recorded being modular and selectable so people themselves can add new data modules.

BTW I think I will add a buff tracking in which should then show the procs you want though won't really give any good reference for how they work, but better than nothing at least (no easy way to add full proc tracking in the current framework).

Originally Posted by Pleun

Another little idea/request that popped up just now, while trying to figure out what was killing people on a wipe: maybe possible to sort the "Deaths" on time of death? Think they're displayed alphabetically now.

Its in the plans!

Originally Posted by Kytrarewn

Since I've begun running Recount, my own personal DamageMeters have not been playing nicely with others. Other people get my data fine, and in fact it seems to sync fine, but my meters miss damage from all but like 3 people.

Do you have any idea why this might be, or even if it can be attributed to Recount at all? Anyone else have this problem?

I think its Fix Ambigious Strings being enabled, goto options and disable that under data and ReloadUI and I think you will have it go away (it was activated by default for foreign users).

Originally Posted by Druitt

Very good suggestion! Add two new options: 1) Out of Combat (View Last Fight, View Overall), and 2) In Combat (View Current fight, View Last Fight, View Overall). The option would set what is switched to when you first enter or exit combat, so if you manually override -- say select a particular fight -- it won't be re-switched on you.

Also, arrange the fights in the menu in reverse order, with the last at the top (i.e. the closest selection to choose, as you'll most likely want to review more recent fights versus older fights).

Well my first plan is to add showing an option for Current Fight while in combat and Last Fight while out of combat which definitely will help out. Will look at those others afterwards. Trying to clamp down on too many new features at the moment since I want to get a 1.0 release ready and out.

Druitt · 08/12/07, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Cryect

Today, I've been mainly working on Relog

Nice! I have it in Interface folder but turned off in WoW so that whenever I run the Ace Updater I get the latest copy... I've been following it.

1. Thats due to adding 3.5 seconds in case the player is opening up with a 3.5 second cast.
2. Thats actually a hidden option that I need to reveal in the config screen.
3. Yeah, not tracking applications since would require I do more than parse the combat log
4. Unfortunately maim isn't classified as an interrupt so no message is triggered.

All valid, thanks for the answers. If I could make more work for you, though ;-) how about:

1. It's probably not a big deal for the more group-oriented applications I see for Recount. In a 17-second fight, 3.5 seconds is significant, but in a 3-minute fight it's not. Though perhaps you could look for the event just before you enter combat and only add cast time if it was a cast hitting? (I'm starting to look at combat logs more closely, and I see that it's easier to speak of "just before" than it is to determine what that means.)

3. Curse you Blizzard! I"m not sure how Recap tracks Rip applications then. I noticed last night that when Lifebloom, for example, is first applied, it does not say WHO applied it, only that someone got it. It's not until the tick that it lets you know. (And of course, the bloom is wrongly attributed.)

4. Ah, so it's a technical limitation because of Blizzard's... I'll have to see if there's a message about the target being stunned, perhaps that could be a clue if the target started casting something and you get a stunned message before it completes. (Easier said than done, I know.)

Well, if you think of a nice way to track Rip applications, it'd be nice. The DoT uptime is probably more important overall though, and translates back -- indirectly -- to the applications, since the goal is to keep it ticking as much as possible.

BTW I think I will add a buff tracking in which should then show the procs you want though won't really give any good reference for how they work, but better than nothing at least (no easy way to add full proc tracking in the current framework).

Nice! All I really care about is either how often something procs (if it's a one-off) in a fight, or how long the buff it generates is up. So if I have a 3-minute fight and the buff is up 50% of the time, I don't really care about when or any mechanics except that you saw "Druitt gains XYZ", and "XYZ fades" (or whatever the log says) and how much of the fight was between the two.

(OK, I'll risk being mocked here, it's the Mark of the Chosen trinket, which is something like a level 45 item. But when it procs, you have +25 to all stats for 1 minute. A friend of mine claims it doesn't proc much anymore (at our high level), and I wanted to do a bit of experimentation to see what the deal is. I think that with the recent Alchemy changes, having a +25-all-stats buff up for most of a fight would be very nice. Of course, it does in fact have to be up a lot of the time to be more valuable than high-level trinkets.)

Well my first plan is to add showing an option for Current Fight while in combat and Last Fight while out of combat which definitely will help out. Will look at those others afterwards. Trying to clamp down on too many new features at the moment since I want to get a 1.0 release ready and out.

Good call. You do need to fix the features at some point. The option you describe will be nice. (And if you can sort fights in reverse order in the menu, I'd be grateful.)

balyn · 08/12/07, 3:37 PM

For hunters, snake trap damage isn't getting counted at all.

senior toasted bread · 08/12/07, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Druitt

What is the technical implication of this? Does it mean that it's difficult to detect Interrupts? Or are you saying that only silences count as interrupts?

In my mind, Maim, Feral Charge (Pounce, and Earth Shock, too) should all be counted as Interrupts if physically possible, since they do in fact stop a mob or player from doing something they intended to do. Even if the interrupted target can immediately recast, that's several more seconds delay and also opens a window for someone else to interrupt or silence -- so I see a difference from mere damage pushback.

A lot of abilities have a side effect of interrupting someone (fear, silence, stun, disorientate etc.) but are not actual interrupts, if the mob was immune to cc they would fail to stop the cast (eg a boss).

[e] About the snake traps, the snakes have the title "snake trap's guardian" under them rather than "<player>'s guardian" so I'm not sure if they can be correctly assigned to a players damage.

nfw · 08/12/07, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by Druitt

What is the technical implication of this? Does it mean that it's difficult to detect Interrupts? Or are you saying that only silences count as interrupts?

In my mind, Maim, Feral Charge (Pounce, and Earth Shock, too) should all be counted as Interrupts if physically possible, since they do in fact stop a mob or player from doing something they intended to do. Even if the interrupted target can immediately recast, that's several more seconds delay and also opens a window for someone else to interrupt or silence -- so I see a difference from mere damage pushback.

When you interrupt a cast, you'll see a message in the combatlog:

So-and-so interrupts mob's spell.

The important thing is that there is no counter to interrupts, and no DR as far as I know. There's nothing you can do if you are interrupted besides waiting out the school lockdown.

Jeru · 08/13/07, 4:53 AM

Apologies if this has been requested/adressed already:

Basically what I'm missing is:

Option to monitor raid-wide DPS in real time. Either in the main window, with bars showing how much DPS every member is doing (updated in real time, not after the fight) and a calculated total raid dps. Even better would be the real-time graph that you get when ctrl-clicking a bar, just for the total raid dps.

Second thing, what about syncing? Is something like this in the works?
Third, more customization options for the windows and frames please. Also, the current options work for the main window but not for the real time graph windows (the ctrl-click ones).