Hardware Interface -- Keyboards and Mice - Page 10

Shkarn · 01/03/08, 2:50 PM

I've been tossing around the idea of picking up an MX Revolution. I have a question for those of you who use it, though. Have any of you tried to bind the thumb wheel to strafing, or is that something that would be possible? Being able to control all of my character's movement with the mouse would open up quite a few options for keyboard functionality.

I was quite impressed with how comfortable it is, but I've been reading up on it and it seems to get mixed reviews when it comes to gaming (most of the poor reviews come from those who play FPSes and other non-WoW games). Overall, are you pleased with the mouse?

I was also looking at the G7, but I wish it had more buttons!

• Disiesel · 01/03/08, 9:17 PM

I use the MX Revolution myself. I don't play that much FPS games, however when I do I don't find it any worse than my old MX510. The only problem for me is that the Setpoint software isn't supported by my OS so I can't change any of the bindings.
For everything else I use it's lovely. It sometimes jumps a bit across my screen. I don't know this is because of the low battery or just my old mousepad that I've been using for 10+ years.

There is some software to also mod Setpoint allowing it to be able to change all buttons/scrolls on your mouse. I'll try to dig it up. Making it possible to assign specific keys to it if right.

Edit: There we go: uberOptions Wiki | Main / uberOptions

rlowens · 01/03/08, 9:25 PM

Greetings all, this thread just sent a batch of page views to my uberOptions site, so I came to check it out.

Originally Posted by Bogeywoman

I'm also in love with the MX1000, but now I'm starting to worry about the battery. From a full green, I can now reliably get to the battery critical warning in a single 8-hour gaming session. It's a shame that the battery does not appear to be replaceable and this model's not available any more.

If you are up to doing some soldering, I've read that a KODAK KLIC-5001 or compatible LiIon battery makes a good replacement if you don't mind voiding the warranty. If you are within 3 years of your purchase date, contact Logitech to get a replacement under warranty. They often do not require the old mouse back, so you could still repair that. Since the MX1000 isn't manufactured any more, they would send you an MX Revolution. See here for RMA info.

Originally Posted by wyldbill

This appears to be user error / lack of user education. At least some of the statements made on that website are false.

- Setpoint can change the wheel tilt
- The forward/back buttons on my mx1000 work just fine in firefox, MSIE, and in-game
- I stopped reading the propaganda because those first two arguments were out of date at best

I'm guessing those were extremely old versions of setpoint. I can't say that it "doesn't suck" but I can say that the first two important-looking reasons for not using it are very much false.

- I have my wheel tilt bound to shift & ctrl, definitely NOT the default
- I have my forward/back buttons bound to m4 and m5, again NOT the default, and they work great in all apps

I'd say logitech ships some poor default choices, sure. So does WoW and we still use that, right?

uberOptions isn't a replacement for SetPoint, it is a modification of SetPoint's configuration files, allowing more options on more models. So, we still are using SetPoint.

You are correct that several of the main reasons for uberOptions have been corrected in recent versions of SetPoint. I'll update the homepage to reflect that.

Main current problems fixed by installing uberOptions:

Enables SetPoint's application-specific button profile feature on all SetPoint-controlled models (normally only available on a few models)
Enables setting any button to any function. Most-often requested for setting any mouse button to Middle Click, or Double Click; or setting the media buttons on a SetPoint-controlled keyboard to any function
Optionally removes the default button profiles for the forward/back buttons (otherwise SetPoint will always re-add a few program button profiles for these buttons, for Excel/Outlook/etc)

Malakhi · 01/04/08, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dreamflow

Why do people use trackballs? I see you guys saying you like them but why?

I use trackball for movement, leaving my left hand free to use my g15, i habe most of my keys mapped.

Trackball is the best when it comes to kiting quick flick of the thumb and you can 360 spin.

I have the microsoft 5 button and 2 of the logitech 3 button trackballs, and swap between them. Regular rotation helps my RSI a bit. I reaaly really wish the someone would put out another thumb trackball with 5 or more buttons.

skullpunch · 01/04/08, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by wyldbill

My only issue with fang is that there's no replacement for the N52's d-pad at the thumb. That n52 has an 8-way rocker switch right where the nintendo generation's console gamer expects it; you just don't see on any of the other "gaming" devices.

This is definitely the largest boon of the device. Think about how many fingers it takes to move around with WSAD/ESDF. Having all that on my thumb, a finger known for it's d-pad pressing aptitude, is the best feature of this device.

The n52te looks like a good improvement. They say the buttons are not as clunky and your profiles get stored on the hardware(which will be nice for portability). Apparently, it's out now but impossible to get(sold out?)?

Gorehammer · 01/07/08, 2:37 PM

Another Mac user here.

The N52 works great on the Mac technically, although unfortunately it's not working for the way I play the game (mostly because of switching between pad and keyboard for typing).

Is there an app like AutoHotKey for the Mac?

I'd like to use my regular keyboard, holding down (or latching) a specific key to spam my hunter's auto/steady macro.

I wore out my "4" key manually spamming that thing.

Jelloshots · 01/07/08, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gorehammer

Another Mac user here.

The N52 works great on the Mac technically, although unfortunately it's not working for the way I play the game (mostly because of switching between pad and keyboard for typing).

Is there an app like AutoHotKey for the Mac?

I'd like to use my regular keyboard, holding down (or latching) a specific key to spam my hunter's auto/steady macro.

I wore out my "4" key manually spamming that thing.

ControllerMate can do this as well.

Also, I bought some small wireless Logitech mouse that was on sale a couple months ago. It has a feature I'd never seen before: a scroll wheel that can scroll completely freely. You can spin the thing hard enough that it would take the drag at least ten seconds to slow it down enough to stop sending scroll commands. The first thing I thought of when I discovered it was "hunter weapon."

Noraj · 01/09/08, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by masanbol

I just realized that with the removal of stopcasting in 2.3, it's now possible for players with G15 keyboards to set a toggleable repeating macro that will chaincast anything they want for as long as they have mana.

I just tested this out, and it's spot-on with the timing of the GCD. Tried out a macro for a 7x flash of light, 1x holy light cadence for maintaining Light's Grace, and a macro to set my aura, cast a blessing, and summon my mount (for battlegrounds after rezzing) and both worked.

The real question though is whether or not this violates the ToS. Any takes on that?

EDIT:

Here's an interesting (albeit pricey) alternative that I don't recall having been mentioned:

World of Warcraft Macro Hardware :: P.I. Engineering

The layout shown isn't out-of-the-box, but rather is a selling point for what's possible with the device. I'm seriously considering one of these at this point.

adlwow · 01/09/08, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Noraj

The real question though is whether or not this violates the ToS. Any takes on that?

If you can't do the same thing with plain old in-game macros, then yes it does.

wyldbill · 01/09/08, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Noraj

Here's an interesting (albeit pricey) alternative that I don't recall having been mentioned:

World of Warcraft Macro Hardware :: P.I. Engineering

The layout shown isn't out-of-the-box, but rather is a selling point for what's possible with the device. I'm seriously considering one of these at this point.

It looks really cool, but still seems like a waste of a thumb. Might as well get one of the devices that at least makes use of your thumb, if you're gonna spend some cash on an input device for gaming.

diospadre · 01/09/08, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by adlwow

If you can't do the same thing with plain old in-game macros, then yes it does.

No. If you are sitting at the keyboard you are fine. This will be true up until the G15 is added to Warden.

Blizzard has said many times over the past couple years that as long as it's you pressing the button to start the macro it's fine, and that they have no way to check for this anyway. This is what is normally said by blue:

Aeus: "We have looked into this matter and haven?t found reasonable cause to disallow usage of its functions for use in world of Warcraft.

We do, however, reserve the right to come back to this statement at a later point, at which we will inform our players."

Further, every story you hear where someone claims they were banned for using the keyboard ends up with that person having sold gold, used a leveling service, or sued the keyboard to afk in AV 24/7; not for programming cast macros.

To sum things up, you people need to stop making up the "fact" that using G15 is bannable.

adlwow · 01/09/08, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by diospadre

No. If you are sitting at the keyboard you are fine.

No. I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. If the only rule was that you had to be "sitting at the keyboard," then why are bot programs illegal?

From a blue post in this thread WoW-Europe.com Forums -> Logitech G15 keyboards bannable ? :

While I can certainly see the advantage of say, been able to create large amounts of water while away from your keyboard, this is still classed as automated play, and as such is against the Terms of Use.

Your other example could also be considered to be automated play. In short, the keyboard should not be used to perform any action which a player cannot perform himself in-game using the regular macro interfaces. Obviously there is no in-game function which would allow you to cast multiple spells in the way you have specified, meaning it is not allowed with the keyboard.

Here's a second, similar, response from WoW-Europe.com Forums -> Need Help with G15 keyboard :

Basically, if you could do it with an in game macro, you can do it with a G key.
And as a poster above said, you can't use timeouts in in-game macros, so you can't do that with the G15 keyboard.

Will you be banned for using G15 macroed pauses to cast multiple spells? Probably not. Is it against the rules? Yes. I guess it just comes down to the risks you are willing to take, and whether you are comfortable with cheating. I have a G15, and I don't use it for anything other than what is specifically allowed by the rules/TOS.

Fendryl · 01/09/08, 1:04 PM

You left out a pretty important part of that blue response:

Indeed, the key word is "Unattended".

The general rule I've always understood to be in place was that "so long as you're at the PC, it's fine", because that's really all they can effectively police.

adlwow · 01/09/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Fendryl

The general rule I've always understood to be in place was that "so long as you're at the PC, it's fine", because that's really all they can effectively police.

You can of course believe what you like - but I think the two blue posts I quoted are pretty clear on the matter of using the G15 macroed pauses (afk or not). Just because you can "get away with something" doesn't make it acceptable.

Repeated for emphasis:
Basically, if you could do it with an in game macro, you can do it with a G key. And as a poster above said, you can't use timeouts in in-game macros, so you can't do that with the G15 keyboard.

Octaviann · 01/09/08, 5:05 PM

The thing about G15 macros is, as long as you're at your keyboard, they can't tell the difference between incredible timing and a macro. The key is that you have to be actually paying attention so that you respond when they ask you "Are you really there?"

If you don't respond to the GM at that point, then you're in trouble.

Gruturistic · 01/12/08, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by Fendryl

The general rule I've always understood to be in place was that "so long as you're at the PC, it's fine", because that's really all they can effectively police.

Hi, I'm the author of that question to which the blue replied and I regret using "unattended" in it since it still leaves a 0.01% of possible ambiguity - should really have explained better that it would be an automation, but with the user at the keyboard.

Still, apart from the emphasis on "unattended" in the reply, their stance is pretty clear: as long as you're not triggering more actions that you could do, in any conceivable way, with a a single keypress and normal mod/script/macro tricks, it's allowed. If this fails to be true (more than one keypress could do), it's forbidden.

Their ability to check for this case might be non-existant, but, apart from that, this is their official policy.

epitaffy · 01/13/08, 1:52 AM

Originally Posted by Calen

Keyboard: The venerable IBM Model M Keyboard.

I have a private stash of these keyboards, which I started collecting back in the early 90's. Working as a programmer for a company recently bought out by a bank I was initially attracted to them as I felt I could defend myself from small caliber weapons fire with their 1/4" metal backing plate, and then easily go on the offensive.

Actually, it was the removable keys tops (so easy to clean, or arrange in Dvorak) and the superb tactile feel that made me try them out.

If you ever see one of these for sale, I would recommend purchasing it. I shudder to think how many characters I've typed on my main keyboard in the last ~17 years, and how many times I've pounded the crap out of it while overexcited with coding, tanking or pvp. Not a single key failure, nor do I ever expect one.

Completely agree with everything said here.
I have been gaming on my Model M for years and could not imagine switching to a modem keyboard. I have used logitech and other newer keyboards at friend's houses and internet cafes and such and none have the long lasting, solid feel of the Model M keys. Due to years of pc gaming I also prefer keybinding around qwertyasdfgzxcvb and 12345 then using specialized areas. Since my fingers are so used to certain keybinds I try to keep functionality of keybinds relatively the same or at least using in similar situations. Most of my most important keybinds are also bound to mouse keys.

The brand of the mouse is not important (I have used both logitech and razer and been satisfied) as long the mouse has high DPI and 2 side buttons for my right hand thumb's keybinds it will work.

PaladinMJ · 01/13/08, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bohemienne

I've used that mouse as well in the past, and really loved it, though not as much as the also-discontinued mouse that it replaced, the Microsoft Trackball Explorer--lawd, why does no one make GOOD trackball mice with the ball in the center anymore?? Anyhow, if you want something similar to that five-button one, I'm currently using a Logitech Trackball that feels very similar but unfortunately lacks a forward/backward button set.

I know the trackball gamers (and graphic designers, which is how I got hooked on trackballs in the first place) are few and far between, but I can't imagine playing with anything but.

I'm the same way i love my logitech trackball. i only have one completely usable hand really due yo a disability (left) so i NEED the ball in the center really. i cant stand gaming with a mouse.

PaladinMJ · 01/14/08, 1:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dreamflow

Why do people use trackballs? I see you guys saying you like them but why?

because a small figer movement and I can move the pointer ANYWHERE I need it without having to move more that that finger. It keeps the desk clearer and it's just so much easier IMNSHO. I never have to pick up the mouse and resituate it to finish a move or tweak the scaling for every task

Maligne · 01/14/08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Yinchie

Keyboard: SteelSeries 6G (INT - SteelSeries)
Mouse: Razer DeathAdder (Razer | For Gamers. By Gamers.™ | Gaming Hardware)

Desk setup: http://itchy.nl/files/images/IMG_0058.JPG

I'm in the market for a new desk and I really like your setup. Along those lines, anyone have any good advice for a "gaming" desk? It seems silly at first but I'm sure they are out there (think how silly a "gaming" keyboard sounded at first). Google produces this article, which is pretty good: Gadget Workshop A gaming desk, practical alternatives..

Deathspiral · 01/14/08, 1:27 PM

Optimus Maximus keyboard

Has anyone considered using one of these, or a modified version of one?
x5 for a 40-man raid)
Ideally, I want a 5x5 ( or version - my ideal setup would be having the keyboard display individual Grid frames, one per key. Pushing a button would cast a heal on that person.

This is possible in theory - if I could get the hardware cheaply enough, it may be worth taking a crack at writing the code.

Goggles · 01/14/08, 1:36 PM

I've got an Optimus Mini that I got for fun and while it was fun, I can't say it was very reliable. Frequently it would just stop responding and the feel of the buttons wasn't quite right. That said they're onto version 2 of the Mini and I'd hope they've ironed out those kind of issues now. What looks better is the Tactus concept they've got up now but no idea how long it'll be before that's ready.

Tallage · 01/14/08, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Deathspiral

Optimus Maximus keyboard

Has anyone considered using one of these, or a modified version of one?
x5 for a 40-man raid)
Ideally, I want a 5x5 ( or version - my ideal setup would be having the keyboard display individual Grid frames, one per key. Pushing a button would cast a heal on that person.

This is possible in theory - if I could get the hardware cheaply enough, it may be worth taking a crack at writing the code.

I'm sorry - I don't know which street of theoryville you live in but with the current WoW API this is not possible. The only way it will happen is if Blizzard allow data to be pulled from the WoW client which you can manipulate for display purposes. I don't even think it's possible to do so with the current G15 keyboard.

Also, you are saying that you would rather stare at your keyboard instead of your screen for healing - that's bad. How can you be aware of your surroundings by doing so? Seems like a silly way to play, but then again I've seen some healing UI setups that give 1cm2 of the world view. :p

Malan · 01/14/08, 2:19 PM

That particular keyboard is basically vaporware anyways, its been on "pre order" status for almost a year and lists at almost $500 USD, which is actually an improvement because the last time I looked at their site it was over $1,000 USD.

Abbi · 01/14/08, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

That particular keyboard is basically vaporware anyways, its been on "pre order" status for almost a year and lists at almost $500 USD, which is actually an improvement because the last time I looked at their site it was over $1,000 USD.

Hey, they actually had one at CES this year:

Hands-On: Hands On With Optimus Maximus Keyboard

(I don't think it'll ever come out either.)