How many keys do you really have available on the n52 and co?
From the pictures it seems that there would be less or just barely about the same as I've currently bound (sic?) on my keyboard, however this is minus the three modifier keys.

And swapping hand from the device to the keyboard would do more harm than good I assume.

I'm also curious about the number of buttons on n52, looks like very few :S

It's pretty much what you see there - the 14 keys up top, the button next to the joystick and the selector key down the bottom. You can set up three profiles (blue, green, red) and you can either swap pages/profiles (e.g. you have one set up for main spec and one for offspec) or you can activate temporarily like you would on a normal keyboard with Alt, Shift or Ctrl as well as being able to use modifiers on your active profile too. Have a look at the user manual on the Razer website for a better description but that's the basics, there's a lot of flexibility in it.

On my Mage I have over 50 key binds and with the exception of a couple of mouse key binds they are all controlled by the N52TE. You can go a long way with 2 modifier keys. I use only 1 profile.

Well the 52te has 3 toggleable layers, the new one has 8?

You can totally fine use the D-Pad as WASD replacment using your thumb. This leaves you with 14 buttons you have always accessible while moving (or 16 while standing). Additionally to this you can press the scrollwheel down and bind scrollwheel up and down. You can bind a hell of an amount of buttons combining the layers of the n52 with modifier keys (ctrl shift alt)

My layout is very simple. I have tried time and time again to use the d-pad as a wasd replacement, but playing a rogue I find that I do not need to have 13 keys with 2 mods for a total of 39 keys. From what I have found I only use binds for all the needed stuff, such as attacks & defensive abilities, and a few macros. Trinkets and any other on use items depending on how much I really need it I may or may not bind them, and for certain situations. Here is an example of my bind set:



I have a couple different profiles based on what I am doing. For PvE since I don't need a mount (I have the add-on GoGoMount bound to that key for those who are wondering), it is instead the - key. Also, I have the button labeled as push to talk for vent set to left alt for more customization. Key 15 is left to the default space bar so I can jump if need be, since some of the new raid mechanics do require jumps. I do not use the scroll wheel though, I have not found a use for it other than binding gogopet to it a while back, and then I just disabled it because of accidentally scrolling in pvp, bringing a pet out while stealthed.

For those wondering why I use the d-pad for my main 4 attacks... spamming 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 in fights isn't as tiring if I use my thumb, and being a console gamer as well, my thumb already has the endurance, it just makes things much simpler. The big thing is to make something that works for you though, once you find your bind set that works perfectly for you you will find yourself to be much more comfortable in long sessions because of the ergonomic shape of the controller.

As I mentioned before, if anyone is having trouble with it, let me know, I have used the n52's for years.

I've been using the n52te since WoW launch, and the new Razer Nostromo update for the past month (since it came out). While the Nostromo uses the same shell as the n52te, the internals have been completely updated.

While it appears that there's only the 15 buttons, creative use of chording (using modifier keys and pressing more than one key at a time) can easily yield 5 'modes' and 60 keybinds in WoW, not including using modifiers against the dpad, the scrollwheel, or your mouse's buttons. Currently I'm using the Nostromo to control 5 actionbars in WoW, all from the 'blue' mode. I could increase that by using the other 7 color modes with new key values.

The Dpad on the Nostromo works perfectly for movement using default settings. However, I recommend removing the thumbstick and just using the base dpad; the thumbstick tends to hit the diagonals more than the straights. Couple with the mouse for turning, you'll get a very fluid high mobility, making rogue positioning or ranged kiting a snap.

The Macros behave much better on the Nostromo (vs the N52te).. including the ability to have a macro spamming in the background in toggle mode (for all you Rogues dependent on Sinister Strike spam). Obviously you can't use the modifiers with Nostro macros, but the total of 8 color modes means at least 120 keys for macros, if that's more valuable to you.

The biggest issue is that they've returned to the original n52's method of handling keybindings and macros in software, rather than from the device (as on the n52te).. While this means you can't save a profile to the Nostromo then use it on any machine (without the Nostromo software installed), it does mean that the device is open for future feature updates..

For more on using the N52te/Nostromo with WoW, check out my YouTube channel, The 2 Ring.

Is the Razer Nostromo a completely different device from the n52te or is there just some firmware/software upgrade available? I am a bit confused in that regard.

The Nostromo and the n52te share the same shell - they look and feel the same, but they are completely different devices. You can't 'upgrade' the n52te to a Nostromo - the drivers for the new model don't work with the n52te. Razer effectively gutted the n52te and built a completely upgraded device in it. The Nostromo uses a new chipset, does not have onboard memory, all kebyinds and macros are interpreted in the OS vs on the device. The profiles for the n52te WILL NOT work with the Nostromo, you will have to rebuild all profiles and macros. In doing so, Razer effectively fixed pretty much every complaint folks had about the n52te.

So, you can essentially think of the Nostromo as the N52te MkII.

I've been using the N52TE since TBC, and I'm wondering what do you mean by toggle mode? I use the 'space bar' key and the backleft d-pad (don't need backwards running as a mage) as modifiers and have the other keys set to spam the button I keep pressed. Is the new macro software worth the purchase? I don't see anything wrong with the N52TE software.

Another question: is the hardware _exactly_ the same as the N52TE? I think it's kinda lazy that they didn't improve the space bar button and the 'missile launcher' button. Also my scrollwheel press button is broken, wonder if it's worth purchasing the Razr one.

My personal setup is a Razer Naga with a default keyboard atm. (Though I may be looking into a Fang from the first post to test out along side my Naga)

I know the 12 buttons on the side seem a little overwhelming, which was my thinking exactly, until i tried it. Good lord, was it nice. I can bind my entire main bar to my mouse and since I click turn and use WASD to move it allows me to spin around with one finger, target with the other, as well as spam Death Strike with my thumb. The two additional buttons next to the default Left/Right buttons are nice for powershifting on my druid and quick Death and Decay drops.

The mouse has a custom addon for WoW allowing you to quickly alter your key configuration to match the mouses, as well as some advanced options. For example I have my numpad bound to the mouse, but the default number bar across the top is NOT bound to the mouse, giving me access to "two main action bars". I can bind 12 spells to the mouse and 12 additional spells to my home number row for easy tapping while moving.

Ping time is stupid fast, it runs a gold-plated USB 3.0 cable, and communicates exactly as I need it to. It has a standalone control panel to adjust the ping time, sensitivity, and just about anything else you can think of, to tailor this device to your personal needs.

Atm I'm using a Logitech Cordless Desktop Ex110 and a Razer Naga. With the Keyboard I use the right hand side of the key area with u..] as my home row. This allows me to comfortable use my palm for space bar and my thumb to press Ctrl or Shift though my index finger can also be used to hit the shift. I'd love to find a keyboard where I could swap the AltGR or Menu keys for Alt so as to have all the useful modifiers available to my thumb. I'm currently deciding between the Logitech g13 and the Razer Nostromo with the Razer Product ahead in the in the looks and layout department but the G13 well ahead on the Features Score. However all these will probably shortly be junked in favour of the best kept secret of Input devices, the AlphaGrip, which I've had on order since finding out about it in December last Year.

I had given up trying to find my ideal input device and started modding a Large Gamepad, replacing one joystick with a trackball and adding extra keys to the front and bottom when I stumbled across the Alphagrip. The newest model which should be in Stock in April will have a laser Trackball which should address the one weakness of the device atm, that is that the trackball isn't quite good enough for gaming purposes.

I'd suggest anyone who is looking for a better way to play WoW go and check it out. Pricewise it's cheaper than a Naga + Gamepad and given it's a full keyboard and mouse replacement I'd say it's lot better value for money too. I would think we'll shortly be hearing of a lot more people using it in the near future.

Well, to clarify, since it's been a while since I got an email for this thread (subscribed), Razer bought out the rights for the n52 from Belkin. So now Razer overhauled it and made it into the beast it is, and they did a good job. That's the short story.

Nerdling, for your particular instance of having a hard time choosing, I wouldn't totally base your buy on looks and layout, or what the "features score" is. My hands are just a tad too small for the G13 to use comfortably, so I can't use that and use the n52 instead. But they are just big enough for the WoW mouse (Cata version) put out by SteelSeries, a Razer Naga feels too small. Your biggest choice should always be comfort and ease of access to reach the keys, especially if your guild is one that raids many hours per week. Comfortable hands on a pad you can easily use trumps cramped hands on a gamepad that has tons of features any day.

In the G13 vs Nostromo comparison, it's important to sort out what's actually being compared.. The G13 does have more buttons, an LCD screen, variable color lighting, an analog thumbstick and an impressive profile/macro editor. However, many of those buttons are poorly placed and/or require moving your hand to reach them. The LCD screen requires looking at your hand, when you should be looking at the screen, so not useful during times when it would actually be useful. The color lighting is pretty. The thumbstick is nice, but not particularly ergonomic; I've heard several folks complaining about it being uncomfortable to use for prolonged periods, and I wasn't too impressed with it. That leaves the Profile editor, which is quite nice.

In comparison, you have the nostromo. Every key is easily in reach. The Dpad is comfortable and responsive, even during marathon WoW sessions. The macro editor is decent, but nothing to write home about, and the lighting choices are any color you like as long as it's blue.

So, the G13 wins the bells and whistles category while the Nostromo wins the functionality category.

That being said.. drool on the AlphaGrip!! I may just have to try one of those when they're more available.

With AutoHotKey you can rebind your keys. There are also several registry editors / keyboard mappers for Windows out there that can do the same (on a global level). I've remapped my CAPSlock key this way.

I use a similar program (will post the exact name if anyone is interested) to turn my capslock key into just another shift key, and change some of the extremely underused buttons (such as pause/break, the menu button, et cetera) into media controls. Changing capslock to "alt" is a much, much better idea! Gives me instant easy access to all modifier keys now and doesn't interfere with anything else I use the computer for.

As for keyboards, I am currently using a Majestouch with MX Cherry brown switches (went from some logitech media keyboard to the G15 then to the G19). The majestouch far and away the best keyboard/typing experience ever.

For mice I am currently using a Razer naga. I don't understand a lot of the hate leveled against it. I find it very comfortable and the extra keys are great. Even the harder to reach ones are useful for spells you don't cast all the time but still like to have bound to a key. I also use a Logitech G9, but that is for FPS/SC2 mostly, and though I've had it for a while now, the more I keep using it, the more I find it just as good a mouse for non-MMOs.

And also, I really must sing the praises of a mechanical keyboard, one with real switches.


*edit*
Found a fix for this issue, it was caused by Actual Multiple Monitors. Finally found a blue post about it.

Verified. I'm running Win7 x64. Dropping to my guest account I get the 'no Razer device connected" notice when opening the Nostromo Configurator. I'll see if I can find some useful information on this issue. If you dig anything up, please share!

When you installed it, did you set it for only you, or anyone who uses that computer? Sometimes that can be the difference.

Update: Has nothing to do with admin permissions, seems to be a flaw in the installation software. Even if you tell it to install for everyone, it only works for the user you installed it as. I bumped my regular account up to admin rights, it still didn't work, so I uninstalled and reinstalled, whereupon it started working.

I then got a wild hair and decided to drop the permissions back down, and it continued working, including letting me change the configurations. It still fails on any user that I haven't installed it on previously, and on the account that I had previously installed it from, it works but the default profile is gone. Haven't tried creating new profiles on that account, so I don't know how well that would work.

Also note that in order to fix it, you have to do the permissions bump, simply running as administrator from your gaming account doesn't install it properly for that account.

So far, my only real dislike is that if you use the default hand position, it puts 6 buttons under your weakest finger, and only two under your strongest. I get it, they're trying to leave your normal training in place for the tab, shift, and ctrl keys, but I still don't like it. Heck, with the hand rest in the way, I can't even reach two of the pinky buttons without shifting my grip, and I don't have small hands. Besides, reserving all those keys for modifier keys means I don't have enough buttons left for MMORPGs.

So, I shifted my hand one key to the left, so I have three buttons under the pinky and five under my index finger. Not quite as comfortable since the thumb has to stretch just a little farther to be on the thumbpad, but acceptable.

Which brings me to the next issue, the modifier key bindings (shift/ctrl/alt). My first instinct is to bind them to the thumb pad, since I always use the mouse for movement/strafing. That covers the non-chorded modifiers, but I can't find a way to use the software to create chord buttons, where pressing diagonally on the thumbpad presses two modifier keys.

I suspect that I may have to use Autokey to get that behavior, but I can think of four ways to fix it, if the drivers/macro functions have the right options. Anyone else tackled this and see something I missed?

Gaming Keyboard By Razer� - Star Wars�: The Old Republic� Gaming Peripherals by Razer� | Razer� | For Gamers. By Gamers.�

Ignoring the marketing hype on this page, has anyone used a keyboard with slim key caps before? It looks like a series of typing errors waiting to happen.

The current Mac Keyboards have slim keys and, though I don't use one for gaming, I've used one at work and it's definitely not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Actually quite comfortable to use, though takes a bit of getting used to the lower level of key travel - it's a bit more like a laptop keyboard in that sense, but full keyboard size.

That reminds me of my lazer keyboard that I used to have, it was a chain effect. If you touched one key it would connect to another key that I would not like to have used. It was so annoying that it wasn't even fun to show off because of all the errors.

But I do have a slim keyboard on my mac and it feels quite comfortable, although I prefer for gaming my G15 keyboard and the razer naga mouse, couldn't believe I ever played without that mouse.