Deadly Boss Mods vs. BigWigs - Page 6

Wings · 11/07/07, 3:44 AM

I used BW for a full raid again yesterday for the first time in months. The Flash'N'Shake module worked great!

Originally Posted by Saroz

Just get DBMFTLBBQ

On a sidenote, I'm curious why did Saroz got an Infraction for this. "DBMFTLBBQ" is the name of an actual addon that fools DBM Version Checks into thinking you have it. That way you can use BigWigs even if your raid leader "enforces" DBM.

You can get it on World of Warcraft Addons - WowAce.com

Hate Monkey · 11/07/07, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by Wings

On a sidenote, I'm curious why did Saroz got an Infraction for this. "DBMFTLBBQ" is the name of an actual addon that fools DBM Version Checks into thinking you have it. That way you can use BigWigs even if your raid leader "enforces" DBM.

You can get it on World of Warcraft Addons - WowAce.com

Well for one, I didn't know what the hell he was talking about till someone said what it was a few posts later, so that's really why he got the Infraction I think.
Index of /DBMFTLBBQ/ is the link to the exact page.

funkydude · 11/07/07, 6:23 PM

I removed health scanning from the naj'entus module, you can now download a separate addon BigWigs_NajAssist @ wowace / WAU

specific · 11/07/07, 6:34 PM

funkydude, would you or the other BW authors consider adding bosswhisper capability, even via a module or something? I know it's been brought up several times in this thread, and you've espoused the opinion that it's covered by other mods, but I've been trying to get this functionality working (without actually switching to DBM), and the standalone solutions are broken or inferior. It seems as though it would be fairly simple to add, but my programming skills are lacking :/ A simple autoreply during combat would be more than sufficient for most of us...it's the only feature of DBM I covet :)

funkydude · 11/07/07, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by specific

funkydude, would you or the other BW authors consider adding bosswhisper capability, even via a module or something? I know it's been brought up several times in this thread, and you've espoused the opinion that it's covered by other mods, but I've been trying to get this functionality working (without actually switching to DBM), and the standalone solutions are broken or inferior. It seems as though it would be fairly simple to add, but my programming skills are lacking :/ A simple autoreply during combat would be more than sufficient for most of us...it's the only feature of DBM I covet

No.

Ragnor · 11/08/07, 1:29 AM

Originally Posted by specific

funkydude, would you or the other BW authors consider adding bosswhisper capability, even via a module or something? I know it's been brought up several times in this thread, and you've espoused the opinion that it's covered by other mods, but I've been trying to get this functionality working (without actually switching to DBM), and the standalone solutions are broken or inferior. It seems as though it would be fairly simple to add, but my programming skills are lacking :/ A simple autoreply during combat would be more than sufficient for most of us...it's the only feature of DBM I covet

Did you try Index of /BossWhisperer/ ?

If so, what problems do you have with it atm?

Fulnir · 11/08/07, 4:19 AM

I was on A'lar yesterday with the newest bigwigs installed and in phase 1 I got zero timers for platform shifts. It wasn't a big deal, since the addon began working in phase 2, but in phase 1 there were no bars or anything.

Ammo · 11/08/07, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by Fulnir

I was on A'lar yesterday with the newest bigwigs installed and in phase 1 I got zero timers for platform shifts. It wasn't a big deal, since the addon began working in phase 2, but in phase 1 there were no bars or anything.

That's because BigWigs has no timers for them. They're too random and pretty useless.

-Ammo

Fulnir · 11/08/07, 7:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ammo

That's because BigWigs has no timers for them. They're too random and pretty useless.

-Ammo

Hah, guess i'm too used to DBM then. Just converted after the implements from this thread. Worked quite well for me.

Edenfall · 11/08/07, 8:13 AM

DBM vs BigWings. I haven't tried BigWings yet, and I won't unless I need it for some extra function. Still, as DBM obviously has its descendance from BW it should be written all over the addon "thanks to BigWings" or something. Credit has a lot to say about moralization.

Timers are reminders and guidelines, and you should never rely on timers being 100% accurate. It's an L2P issue. It's not that hard to look at the timer and record in your head how many seconds inaccurate it is.

When it comes to preference: If it works, you dont need to do anything about it. I like DBM. All you really have to do with it is adjust the design and position of the bars, activate special warnings for bosses like Solarian. It works. And if you dont know you have Wrath on you, then please, stop the drugs.

Edit:

And thanks to the developers of BigWings, who made the development of DBM possible.

Ammo · 11/08/07, 8:57 AM

Originally Posted by Edenfall

And thanks to the developers of BigWings, who made the development of DBM possible.

You're highly overstating the importance of BigWigs to DBM. And it's not a discussion to get going. Peaceful coexistance is a lot better.

To that guy that had the dual monitor setup, could you test the most recent BigWigs and test if both monitors still flash, I went and replaced 5 of funkeh's codelines by 1 of mine being more efficient

-Ammo

Valjean · 11/08/07, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by funkydude

I removed health scanning from the naj'entus module, you can now download a separate addon BigWigs_NajAssist @ wowace / WAU

So my guild went to BT for the first time last night. Seeing the health mod on DBM, everyone switched over to DBM for the fight. For a guild just starting out, that mod is amazing. So I was going to ask if Bigwigs would ever have that implemented.

So thanks for beating me to the punch.

lazerpewpew · 11/08/07, 7:36 PM

Originally Posted by Starinnia

I've used both these mods, and honestly, I don't think you can compare them. Sure, they are both "Boss Mods" that make raiding easier, but they have completely different philosophies as to what a "Boss Mod" should be. BW seems to take the view that a Boss Mod should provide timers and warning for the boss abilities, and maybe a range frame on the critical fights where standing near somebody wipes the raid. DBM seems to take the stance of trying to make raiding idiot proof. They seem to accomplish this with the timers, warnings, frames, whisper-blocking, aggro alerts, and whatever else it seems the BW supporters call bloat.

DBM takes the game and encapsulates end-game contents (and yes that includes PvP, many people play the game for that alone). BW takes raiding, and makes it easier.

And for me personally, I like DBM, just because it gives me the end-game package. And I don't have problems updating, fixing timers, or adding the new bosses to the mod. But then again, I am a programmer that has the DBM API bookmarked.

This is the best written argument on this BW vs DBM issue. The reason I was quite upset by some people's opinions was that you call DBM "bloated".

"Bloated" is more than often referred to a piece of software that is inefficient, takes too much memory, runs slow which DBM doesn't appear to be. Maybe it has too many features, and a bit too much "idiot proof" to some people's taste, but it is certainly not "bloated" for having too many features.

funkydude · 11/08/07, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by lazerpewpew

... opinions was that you call DBM "bloated". ...

Right, In my post I'm going to reference two things. One will be features that I feel are (or were) inappropriate for a Boss Mod, the second is code, the code snippets will be taken from the API AddOn since this loads when you log in.

#1 Features

Past Features:
Including, raids tools such as durability check, a tool to log off your members, auto hand in for bandages and other things.
I feel these are highly inappropriate for a Boss Mod, thankfully they were removed, but its still proof of bloat.

Present Features:
Including aggro indicator and PvP timers.
I'm not sure how you can justify having either one in a Boss Mod. Agro indicator is far far too generic and not only related to bosses, PvP is a completely different thing to PvE. Both I consider bloat, or 'feature creep' to the current AddOn.

#2 Code Lets take a look at what you are loading in you 'modular' addon

As stated above, the following snippers are taken strictly from the API addon as its laoded on log in. You get no choice in this. The snippets are what I consider should not be loaded in the core addon or or too extreme.

	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS1 = "/lv";
	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS2 = "/bossmods";
	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS3 = "/dbm";
	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS4 = "/deadlybossmods";
	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS5 = "/deadlyboss";
	SLASH_LVNAXXRAMASBOSSMODS6 = "/deadly";

Got enough slash commands? Not sure...

	DBM_API:RegisterEvent("CHAT_MSG_COMBAT_HOSTILE_DEATH");
	DBM_API:RegisterEvent("CHAT_MSG_ADDON");
	DBM_API:RegisterEvent("PLAYER_LEAVE_COMBAT");
... list cut down

These are just a few events that are registered on log, that in my opinion, should not.

function DBM.RangeCheck()
	local name, playersOutOfRange;
	playersOutOfRange = "";
	for i = 1, GetNumRaidMembers() do
		name = GetRaidRosterInfo(i)
		if name and (not CheckInteractDistance("raid"..i, 4)) then
			playersOutOfRange = playersOutOfRange..UnitName("raid"..i)..", ";
		end						
	end
	DBM.AddMsg(DBM_RANGE_CHECK..string.sub(playersOutOfRange, 1, (string.len(playersOutOfRange) - 2)));
end

A range check, this is a very strong example of completely disregard for modularity. What if I don't even raid at all today? I'm going to load all that code anyway, tough luck.

local goodBGTimers = { 
	["Begins"] = 63,
	["Ivus spawn"] = 605,
	["Ice spawn"] = 605,
...list cut down

What if I deleted the BG AddOn? I don't want this AddOn for PvP, why am I loading PvP times when I log on?

		if name == DBM_THADDIUS_NAME then
			hitpoints = string.format(DBM_PHASE, 1);
		elseif name == DBM_GOTH_NAME and DBM.AddOns.Gothik then
			hitpoints = string.format(DBM_WAVE, DBM.AddOns.Gothik.Wave);
		elseif name == DBM_NTP_NAME and DBM.AddOns.Noth then
			hitpoints = string.format(DBM_BALCONY_PHASE, DBM.AddOns.Noth.Phase);
		elseif name == DBM_KELTHUZAD_NAME and DBM.AddOns.Kelthuzad and DBM.GetStatusBarTimerTimeLeft("Phase 2") then
			local timeLeft = DBM.GetStatusBarTimerTimeLeft("Phase 2");

No words for this, code related to a boss shouldn't be in the core...

	SetCVar("CombatDeathLogRange" , rv[1]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeCreature" , rv[2]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeFriendlyPlayers" , rv[3]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeFriendlyPlayersPets" , rv[4]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeHostilePlayers" , rv[5]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeHostilePlayersPets" , rv[6]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangeParty" , rv[7]);
	SetCVar("CombatLogRangePartyPet" , rv[8]);

Changing my combat log distance when I log on, great...

Well, the list goes on, I really didn't have time to take a proper look at the code, neither am I inspired to do so. Pick whichever you want, I'm not really interested in doing a comparing anymore. I'll continue to develop BigWigs the best and cleanest way I can since thats what I enjoy doing.

Paradox · 11/08/07, 11:46 PM

I just deleted DBM and started using BigWigs after that post. Thanks.

nontoxic · 11/09/07, 12:49 AM

personally I use BigWigs. i tried DBM once but just didnt like the way the menu/options were set up. My feeling on this is use whichever you feel most comfortable with as long as you're using some boss mod.

Ancathon · 11/09/07, 1:25 AM

I noticed that on the Leotheras the blind fight with bigwigs Leotheras whirlwind cooldown timer is a lot less reliable than the DBM timer, other than that fight I am yet to see a significant difference to pick one from the other.

Antiarc · 11/09/07, 2:10 AM

Originally Posted by Ancathon

I noticed that on the Leotheras the blind fight with bigwigs Leotheras whirlwind cooldown timer is a lot less reliable than the DBM timer, other than that fight I am yet to see a significant difference to pick one from the other.

Leotheras' Whirlwind is on a cooldown, not a set timer. Both timers note the amount of time until the Whirlwind is cooled down. He may use WW at any point after the cooldown, and sometimes chooses not to, which is what causes those gaps where the timer ends and he isn't WWing yet.

Both mods time the whirlwind cooldown at 15 sec. Any discrepancy you are seeing is due to when Leotheras chooses to use Whirlwind, not in the timers themselves. Both mods are equally accurate or inaccurate in that particular regard.

♦ Asgorath · 11/09/07, 11:53 AM

We used the new Flash'N'Shake last night during our first Vashj kill, huge thanks to Funkydude and Ammo or whoever else coded that up. It's a really nice feature that certainly helps you notice important stuff in the heat of battle.

funkydude · 11/10/07, 12:07 AM

Added in detailed Hyjal mob wave descriptions, you can turn it off via its menu if you still want basic wave warnings. I'm currently saved this week so haven't tested it, any feedback would be great.

Ruby Moon · 11/12/07, 2:15 PM

The biggest problem in using bigwigs is that people like things the easier way, It's hard to make people in the guild to download Omen and DBM, imagine if we had to make them download banzaialert and so on. People just want things fast and simple.

I used bigwigs for a while but changed due to the majority of the guild using DBM. =/

Is there a possibility to make a super package with stuff like oRA, BigWigs, Omen and son on and make it public?

Zaq · 11/12/07, 4:00 PM

Isn't that exactly what the Ace Updater does?

Antiarc · 11/12/07, 4:20 PM

WowAceUpdater makes procuring and updating mods extraordinarily simple. I know some guilds keep packages of their required mods for download on their sites, but that requires manual updating of the guild site package, and then requires people to download that updated package. It's a relatively clunky distribution method.

UnholY_Prince · 11/12/07, 8:48 PM

Originally Posted by funkydude

Added in detailed Hyjal mob wave descriptions, you can turn it off via its menu if you still want basic wave warnings. I'm currently saved this week so haven't tested it, any feedback would be great.

Wasn't working for me today on Trash, I had the "Hyjal Summit" module activated, with both boxes checked. I also had raid leader so announcements weren't the problem, I was still announcing incoming waves, just nothing specific about them. What exactly should I be looking for, numbers of specific mobs and such?

Edit: Update: Worked when I started the actual event instead of someone else, wondering if this is intentional or not. Just fyi.

funkydude · 11/13/07, 2:32 PM

Originally Posted by UnholY_Prince

Edit: Update: Worked when I started the actual event instead of someone else, wondering if this is intentional or not. Just fyi.

This isn't really 'intended' as such, more unavoidable. There is only 1 way to tell which boss you are going to fight, thats by what the NPC says when you start the event. To have accurate timers and spawn descriptions someone with BigWigs needs to start the event, otherwise it will display basic warnings and default timers.