Scrub - Raidmember talent scanner (was TalentShow)

Kalman · 12/13/07, 10:39 PM

Some conversations in EJIRC led me to write a mod with the purpose of scanning and analyzing raidmembers' talent specs. Also being bored at work.

Hence, Scrub. Simple little mod designed to:

-Scan the talents of all raid members within range
-Display raidmembers talent triplet and dominant spec in a compact fashion
-Redflag talent builds that are clearly bad for raiding (<11 assassination for rogues, no instant attack for warriors, etc.)
-Yellowflag talent builds that warrant a closer look (>23 disc, hemo, etc - things that may not be total fail, but are atypical)

Slake has more or less taken this over, with my complete blessing. It's on the WoWAce SVN.

Seife · 12/14/07, 12:07 AM

Sounds like a nice idea, thank you for sharing. I will keep tabs on this

Shadowed · 12/14/07, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Some conversations in EJIRC led me to write a mod with the purpose of scanning and analyzing raidmembers' talent specs. Also being bored at work.

Hence, TalentShow. Simple little mod designed to:

-Scan the talents of all raid members within range
-Display raidmembers talent triplet and dominant spec in a compact fashion

Eventually, I may add highlighting of people who have bad/non-raiding builds (i.e. redflag any rogues without 11 in assassination or who took shadowstep), but right now, it's just a clean way to display your raid and see who forgot to respec after PvP.

This is BETA, and as such may not play nicely with other mods. Spyglass is a known incompatibility. Talented throws errors, but it works fine. It is an Ace2 mod, but the libs are not embedded; if you use other Ace2 mods, you're likely to have everything needed. It is NOT localized. Other raidmembers do not need to be running the mod for it to operate; I'm using the integrated talent inspection functions.

Comments, requests, and most especially bug reports are all appreciated. Once I'm happy with an initial release version, I'll stick it on the SVN; for now you can grab it out of my webspace.

http://radiationnow.net/wow/ui/TalentShow.zip

Just looking through, is their a reason you use InspectUnit instead of NotifyInspect? NotifyInspect will still fire INSPECT_TALENT_READY and won't popup the actual inspection UI. The only range check needed is UnitIsVisible, you can inspect anyone as long as they're within visible range if you do it through NotifyInspect.

Kalman · 12/14/07, 12:36 AM

Not in particular. That'll cut down on the annoyance value of scanning.

edit: Updated version posted with preliminary flagging of spec problems. It isn't going to tell you if someone is really minorly off, but it'll alert you to PvP specs (yellow, generally) and terrible specs (Surge of Light). It also now colors names by class.

Binkenstein · 12/14/07, 2:13 AM

I'd make the following suggestions for Ele/Resto

Yellow:
1,10 (eye of the storm, not much of a pve talent) if # >1 (can be used as a one point filler)
1,14 >0 (silence reduction is situational at best, more of a pvp talent)
Red:
1,5 (call of flame, does not affect ToW, which is our best ele totem) #>0 if v>30
1,9 (imp fire totems, nova/magma situational at best) #>0
1,21 (ToW) <1 if v>30
3,6 >1 if v>30
3,8 <1

Add to your NS/NB check 3,15 3,16 and 3,19

semi · 12/14/07, 2:52 AM

What I've been asking for (but in the wrong places) since the inspect changes is auto inspecting on mouse over + caching, and then relevant spec info in tooltips. It seems the last time I updated something is now putting talents in my tooltips (CowTips doing it natively I assume), now the only thing left is fishing out the relevant info and putting it there to.

By relevant info, I mean things you tend to ask your raid, f.e:

Which warlock has which healthstone? If you're affliction, are you malediction? shadow embrace?
Which priest has divine spirit? Circle of healing?

And I'm sure others can come up with more. Basically, once you know a spec, what important talent do you want to know at a glance, mostly for the purpose of managing pug raids or dealing with guildies that respec a lot.

Kalman · 12/14/07, 9:07 AM

CowTip does it, but only if the target is also running an appropriate library (one of the Rock libs, presumably). That's not what this mod is for, nor will it be for.

That said: while DS/CoH are pretty obvious, if you can think of a *good* way to work display of information of the sort you're looking for into the compact display I'm currently using, I'd consider it.

Kalroth · 12/14/07, 10:01 AM

A few warrior things for "highlighting of people who have bad/non-raiding builds", since you were too tired to add warrior failures in your addon. :-)

Arms, first 17 points (usually 17/44)
  * RED. Improved Rend. What .. the .. fuck?
  * RED. Deep Wounds without Impale. Yes, I've actually seen this.
Arms, 31+ points
  * YELLOW. No Blood Frenzy? Fuck off!
  * YELLOW. Improved Hamstring, worthless in PvE.
  * YELLOW. Improved Disciplines, worthless in both PvP and PvE.
  * RED. No Mortal Strike? What .. the .. fuck?
  * YELLOW. Improved Mortal Strike, worthless in both PvP and PvE.
  * YELLOW. Endless Rage, worthless in both PvP and PvE.

Fury, first 28-30 points (common in both fury and arms specs
  * YELLOW. Booming Voice, worthless in PvE. Stop being a slacker.
  * RED. Not 5/5 in Cruelty. What the fuck?
  * YELLOW. Improved Cleave, worthless in both PvP and PvE. No, don't try to argue it.
  * YELLOW. Blood Craze, worthless in PvE.
  * RED. Enrage, but no Flurry points at all. Yes, I've actually seen this.
    You should check for at least 3 points in Flurry, if any points in Enrage.
Fury, 31+ points
  * RED. No Bloodthirst. What .. the .. fuck?
  * YELLOW. Not 5/5 in Improved Berserker Stance. What the fuck?

Protection, first 15 points (usually 41/5/15 or 5/41/15)
  * RED. No Last Stand? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Defiance? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Improved Shield Block? What the fuck.
Protection, 31+ points
  * YELLOW. Improved Disarm, worthless in PvE.
  * RED. No Shield Slam? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Focused Rage? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Improved Defensive Stance? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Vitality? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Devastate? What .. the .. fuck?

Changelog:
- Removed Imp Shieldwall and Imp Bloodrage from the list.
- Removed One-Handed Weapon Specialization from the list. Turns out a lot of people likes prot builds without it.

mikebro · 12/14/07, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kalroth

A few warrior things for "highlighting of people who have bad/non-raiding builds", since you were too tired to add warrior failures in your addon. :-)

* YELLOW. Improved Disciplines, worthless in both PvP and PvE.

Now that Weapon Mastery is in the Fury tree and Improved Intercept is in its place, having 2 points in Improved Disciplines is actually probably the best alternative for raiding.

How in depth do you plan on going with the talent analyzing? Just flagging basic things like "No 31 point instant attack = Red Flag, Has Blood Craze = Yellow Flag." or things like "If >= 31 points in Arms and not 3 points in Flurry, Red Flag. If >31 points in Fury and not 5 points in Flurry, Red Flag, etc..."

I am a bit afraid of overzealous raid leaders and members using this to scan every single raid and going berserk whenever a yellow flag pops up just because the mod says so when they really have little to no knowledge of that class talent tree. Not in my guild, but you know... I've seen stranger things happen in random Kara pugs formed in Trade chat.

Kalman · 12/14/07, 1:29 PM

Red is flat out stupidity, yellow just means take a closer look (i.e. inspect their talents yourself).

I thought about the overzealous raid leaders and members and decided that I'm okay with that. Most of these things really aren't useful in a PvE sense. I'm not redflagging anything that isn't acceptable in a PvP/PvE spec, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Gwaihir · 12/14/07, 2:14 PM

Sweet tool, and opportune timing- I had a paladin show up to Bloodboil this last wednesday who somehow managed to put 41 points in Holy and not get Light's Grace.

manly · 12/14/07, 2:24 PM

ARCANE TREE
---------------
RED - any points in 'imp. arcane missiles' without 3/3 'empowered arcane missiles'
YELLOW - less than 2 points in arcane subtlety (almost all specs run this, with -very few- exceptions)
RED - any points in the talent 'wand specialisation'
YELLOW - anything other than 0 or max points in the talents: 'imp. arcane missiles', 'arcane concentration', 'arcane impact', 'imp. counterspell', 'arcane meditation', 'arcane mind', 'arcane instability', 'arcane potency', 'spell power', 'empowered arcane missiles', 'mind mastery'
RED - 21+ points without 'presence of mind'
RED - 31+ points without 'arcane power'
YELLOW - 33+ points without 2/2 'spell power'
YELLOW - 40+ points without 5/5 'mind mastery'

FIRE TREE
------------
YELLOW - 6+ points without 5/5 'imp. fireball'
YELLOW - any points in 'imp. fire ward'
RED - 10+ points without 5/5 'ignite'
(YELLOW - 21+ points without 'blastwave') -- very debatable
RED - 30+ points without 5/5 'fire power'
RED - 31+ points without 'combustion'
RED - 36+ points without either 3/3 'pyromaniac' and 2/2 'molten fury' (ie: you need both talents maxed out at 36+ points to make sense)
RED - 40+ points without 5/5 'empowered fireball'

FROST TREE
-------------
RED - 11+ points without 'icy veins'
RED - 12+ points without 5/5 'imp. frostbolt'
YELLOW - 12+ points with any points in 'imp. frost warding'
YELLOW - 21+ points without 'cold snap'
YELLOW - 31+ points without 'ice barrier'
RED - 40+ points without 5/5 'empowered frostbolt'
RED - 41+ points without 'summon water elemental'
YELLOW - 25+ points with 0-1-2 points in 'winter's chill'
RED - less than 5/5 'ice shards' while having 1+ points in 'shatter' (ie: shatter with no ice shard is stupid)
RED - 30+ points without 5/5 'ice shards' (ie: winter's chill is mandatory at that point, and winter's chill without ice shard is stupid)

Docjowles · 12/14/07, 2:30 PM

Edit: Manly basically covered everything I was going to say.

Unaz · 12/14/07, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

I'd make the following suggestions for Ele/Resto

Yellow:
1,10 (eye of the storm, not much of a pve talent) if # >1 (can be used as a one point filler)
1,14 >0 (silence reduction is situational at best, more of a pvp talent)
Red:
1,5 (call of flame, does not affect ToW, which is our best ele totem) #>0 if v>30
1,9 (imp fire totems, nova/magma situational at best) #>0
1,21 (ToW) <1 if v>30
3,6 >1 if v>30
3,8 <1

Add to your NS/NB check 3,15 3,16 and 3,19

I wouldn't exactly red flag some of the fire totem talents, maybe yellow. They still have their uses on some fights, or could possibly be fillers. It's slightly dumb yeah, but if you go by the philosophy of "do they have needed talents", that may be the better watermark. I wrote up something a while ago for the shamans in my guild for talent specs (which needs updating since the last round of talent changes), with each spec and a "you need this" along with "you better not have these ever".

I also like Focused Mind quite a bit, as there are still enough fights that I run into with some sort of silence. And trash with shield bash etc as well.

(I think your number for ToW is wrong, I count it as 20, not 21)

Here's what I usually evaluate on:

Resto:
- Red Flags:
-- [<3] Ancestral Healing (3,5) (This could possibly be yellow)
-- [>0] Nature's Guidance (3,6)
-- [<5] Healing Focus (3,7)
-- [<1] Nature's Swiftness (3,13)
-- [<5] Purification (3,15)
-- [<1] Mana Tide (3,16)
-- [<1] Earth Shield (3,20)
-- Anything in Elemental (1,*)
-- Anything past tier 2 Enh (2,5+)
- Yellow Flags:
-- [<3] Healing Grace (3,9)
-- [<2] Imp Chain Heal (3,19) (This could be a red flag)
-- [<5] Ancestral Knowledge (2,1)
-- [>0] Shield Spec (2,2) (Better spent in resto)
-- [>0] Imp LS (2,6)

Elemental:
- Red Flags:
-- [<5] Concussion (1,2)
-- [<1] Elemental Focus (1,6)
-- [>0] Elemental Devastation (1,11)
-- [<2] Unrelenting Storm (1,14) (2 points are needed in this for next tier, less means they used a shitty talent for filler)
-- [<3] Elemental Precision (1,15)
-- [<5] Lightning Mastery (1,16)
-- [<1] Elemental Mastery (1,17)
-- [<1] Totem of Wrath (1,20)
-- [<3] Nature's Guidance (3,6)
-- [>0] Healing Grace (3,9)
-- [>0] Shield Spec (2,2) (Better spent in resto)
- Yellow Flags:
-- [<5] Convection (1,1)
-- [>1] Earth's Grasp (1,3) (People may use this for a filler)
-- [>1] Reverberation (1,7) (People may use this for a filler)
-- [>0] Eye of the Storm (1,10) (PvP Talent)
-- [<2] Storm Reach (1,12)
-- [>0] Elemental Shields (1,18) (PvP Talent)
-- [<1] Totemic Focus (3,8)
-- [<5] Tidal Mastery (3,11)

Enhancement:
- Red Flags:
-- [>0] Shield Spec (2,2)
-- [<2] Enhancing Totems (2,7)
-- [>3] Anticipation (2,9) (Possible Filler Talent)
-- [<5] Flurry (2,10)
-- [>0] Toughness (2,11)
-- [<3] Mental Quickness (2,15)
-- [<5] Weapon Mastery (2,16)
-- [<3] DW Spec (2,17)
-- [<1] Stormstrike (2,19)
-- [<5] Unleashed Rage (2,20)
-- [<1] Shamanistic Rage (2,21)
-- [>0] Earth's Grasp (1,3)
-- [>0] Elemental Focus (1,6)
-- [>0] Ancestral Healing (3,4)
-- Anything past Reverberation in Elemental (1,8+)
-- Anything past Totemic Mastery in Resto (3,9+)
- Yellow Flags:
-- [<1] Shamanistic Focus (2,8)
-- [<2] Imp Weapon Totems (2,12)
-- [<3] Nature's Guidance (3,6) (Likely means they went down ele instead, generally accepted as inferior, but a semi viable choice)
-- [<1] Totemic Mastery (3,8) (Same as Nature's Guidance)

Binkenstein · 12/14/07, 7:19 PM

Originally Posted by Unaz

TL;DR

If you have ToW, there is no point in either of the fire totem talents.
This is probably best put to the Elemental thread, rather than farting around in here discussing talent values.

http://elitistjerks.com/576943-post483.html