Scrub - Raidmember talent scanner (was TalentShow) - Page 2

• Kalroth · 12/15/07, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by Schnappi

To reach the bottom of the Protection tree you at least 1 point in either of those 2 or in Improved Taunt. I dont really see a reason as to why the quoted 2 are far worse than taunt.

Yes, I just discussed this with Pachwa and XI on IRC.

Imp Shieldwall shouldn't be marked as yellow. The jury is still out on Imp Bloodrage, but I'll remove that one from the list too.

Kalman · 12/15/07, 9:12 PM

Originally Posted by Pater

Just an idea for modularity--put the redflag/yellowflag libraries in a separate file. This might allow people to create and share their own.

Yeah, this is planned, mostly to clean up the code visually. I'd like to encourage people to continue discussing/sharing flagging rulesets, as I have no desire to write 9 of them, 6 for classes I don't understand particularly well.

koaschten · 12/15/07, 10:02 PM

Just a note, if you plan to import it to the WoWAce Repository, you might have to think of another name, there is already a Talent-Checking Lib, named that way.

As for Rogue stuff.

red - any Blade Twisting
red - Riposte
yellow - Deadened Nerves

Scheme · 12/16/07, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

As for Rogue stuff.

yellow - Deadened Nerves

This is very useful and not anywhere near as dangerous anymore.

Vonwen · 12/16/07, 5:27 AM

I haven't tested this mod yet, as I'm using (with great pleasure) Talented and Spyglass, but I'd be more than happy to help you on this great idea, could you tell if the incompatibility issues are fixed ?

Manly basically covered the mage talents also, there's not much to add to it.

Thanks for the great job.

Zavior · 12/16/07, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

Just a note, if you plan to import it to the WoWAce Repository, you might have to think of another name, there is already a Talent-Checking Lib, named that way.

As for Rogue stuff.

red - any Blade Twisting
red - Riposte
yellow - Deadened Nerves

A bit more rogue stuff.
Hemorrhage is viable raid spec now, and probably shouldn't be listed as yellow. If the build includes preparation however, it isn't a raid build. ([Rogue]The Combat vs Hemo Point of Inflection)

koaschten · 12/16/07, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Scheme

This is very useful and not anywhere near as dangerous anymore.

I am talking about the Assassination Talent

Deadened Nerves Rank 5
Decreases all physical damage taken by 5%.

You thought i was talking about the combat talent

Nerves of Steel Rank 2
Increases your chance to resist Stun and Fear effects by an additional 10%.

which indeed is useful in Hyjal Summit and Black Temple.

• frmorrison · 12/16/07, 10:04 AM

Sounds like a good addon, but to be great it needed to have some common sense rules built-in for every class.

Margot · 12/16/07, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kalroth

Arms, first 17 points (usually 17/44)
  * RED. Improved Rend. What .. the .. fuck?
  * RED. Deep Wounds without Impale. Yes, I've actually seen this.
Arms, 31+ points
  * YELLOW. No Blood Frenzy? Fuck off!
  * YELLOW. Improved Hamstring, worthless in PvE.
  * YELLOW. Improved Disciplines, worthless in both PvP and PvE.
  * RED. No Mortal Strike? What .. the .. fuck?
  * YELLOW. Improved Mortal Strike, worthless in both PvP and PvE.
  * YELLOW. Endless Rage, worthless in both PvP and PvE.

Fury, first 28-30 points (common in both fury and arms specs
  * YELLOW. Booming Voice, worthless in PvE. Stop being a slacker.
  * RED. Not 5/5 in Cruelty. What the fuck?
  * YELLOW. Improved Cleave, worthless in both PvP and PvE. No, don't try to argue it.
  * YELLOW. Blood Craze, worthless in PvE.
  * RED. Enrage, but no Flurry points at all. Yes, I've actually seen this.
    You should check for at least 3 points in Flurry, if any points in Enrage.
Fury, 31+ points
  * RED. No Bloodthirst. What .. the .. fuck?
  * YELLOW. Not 5/5 in Improved Berserker Stance. What the fuck?

Protection, first 15 points (usually 41/5/15 or 5/41/15)
  * RED. No Last Stand? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Defiance? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Improved Shield Block? What the fuck.
Protection, 31+ points
  * YELLOW. Improved Disarm, worthless in PvE.
  * RED. No Shield Slam? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No One-Handed Weapon Specialization. What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Focused Rage? What the fuck.
  * YELLOW. No Improved Defensive Stance? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Vitality? What the fuck.
  * RED. No Devastate? What .. the .. fuck?

Changelog:
- Removed Imp Shieldwall and Imp Bloodrage from the list.

I suggest you read Quigon's protection warrior guide before you try to help others. Specfically, whether you spec for max threat (1HWS) or max mitigation is not a warning sign that something is wrong.

Kalman · 12/16/07, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Vonwen

I haven't tested this mod yet, as I'm using (with great pleasure) Talented and Spyglass, but I'd be more than happy to help you on this great idea, could you tell if the incompatibility issues are fixed ?

Manly basically covered the mage talents also, there's not much to add to it.

Thanks for the great job.

Talented is compatible so long as you're loading data from other classes. Spyglass is something I don't use and don't have error logs for to try to fix. Also, there's quite possibly a namechange coming, since I do intend this to go into the WoWAce SVN eventually.

Vonwen · 12/16/07, 5:06 PM

Alright I'll try it and post error logs here then.

Scheme · 12/16/07, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by koaschten

I am talking about the Assassination Talent

You thought i was talking about the combat talent

which indeed is useful in Hyjal Summit and Black Temple.

Oops, you're right. Sorry.

seminarca · 12/16/07, 6:15 PM

edit: Killing this, added updated one later in the thread.

Kalman · 12/17/07, 1:57 AM

I've changed the name and internal structure of the mod to make it easier for people to write their own rulesets and send them to me. Also, because there's already and Ace mod named TalentShow, even if no one uses it. The class rules were split out into individual files; Rogue.lua, Priest.lua, etc. I may or may not accept posts of the format people have been using, since writing up a ruleset is kinda boring, so I'll do it if/when I get around to it.

Mod's new name is Scrub, can be found at http://radiationnow.net/wow/ui/Scrub.zip - test it, write up .lua files for your class and either PM or email them to me (kalman@radiationnow.net).

vorda · 12/17/07, 4:11 AM

I suppose you are working on this but doesnt hurt checking: Ace SVN comming up?

• Kalroth · 12/17/07, 6:53 AM

Originally Posted by Margot

I suggest you read Quigon's protection warrior guide before you try to help others. Specfically, whether you spec for max threat (1HWS) or max mitigation is not a warning sign that something is wrong.

How will you spend 31 points or more in Protection while avoiding 1H spec, mitigation focused or not?
I added 1HWS on purpose, because it's a clear cut sign that your points are misplaced, if you don't have any points in it.

But feel free to link me a proper protection talent spec, with 31 points or more, that doesn't put any points in 1HWS.

• Zakalwe · 12/17/07, 7:19 AM

If I'm reading the Warlock.lua file correctly, it seems to be red-flagging any felguard build - is that intended? I don't have any experience with felguard raiding myself, but there certainly seem to be some people who believe in it. The current code also doesn't seem to check for Bane, which is *the* most universally accepted requirement for any raiding build.

In my opinion even the idea of requiring UA for any build with >30 in Affliction is a bit questionable. I guess the question is how strict we want to be in requiring the absolute optimal DPS builds vs. allowing slightly inoptimal builds for the sake of accommodating personal preference and playstyle. I'd say you should try to err on the side of the latter, but maybe that just shows I'm not elitist enough for this place

I'll write up my own suggestion for better Warlock requirements, just wanted to make sure I was reading the code correctly first.

[EDIT:] Here's my suggestion:

function Scrub:CheckWarlock(TSval,val1,val2,val3)
    local temp1
    local temp2
    local temp3
    local rc
    local yc

    temp1 = self.GetPoints(3,1,true)
    if (temp1 < 5) then
        rc = true
    end
    temp1 = self.GetPoints(3,3,true)
    if (temp1 < 5) then
        rc = true
    end
    if (val1 > 30) then
        temp1 = self:GetPoints(1,21,true)
        temp2 = self:GetPoints(1,16,true)
        temp3 = self:GetPoints(1,12,true)
        if ((temp1 < 1) or (temp2 < 5) or (temp3 < 3)) then
	    yc = true
        end
    elseif (val3 > 38) then
        temp1 = self:GetPoints(3,14,true)
	temp2 = self:GetPoints(3,20,true)
        if ((temp1 < 1) or (temp2 < 4)) then
            rc = true
        end
	temp1 = self:GetPoints(1,14,true)
	temp2 = self:GetPoints(2,14,true)
	if (temp2 < 1) then
	    if (temp1 < 1) then
	    	rc = true
	    else
		yc = true
            end
	end
    else
        yc = true
    end

    if (rc) then
        temp3 = 2
    elseif (yc) then
        temp3 = 1
    else
        temp3 = 0
    end
    return temp3

end

It will:
- Red-flag anything without ISB and Bane, plus anything deep destro without Ruin, S&F and either SL or DS
- Green-flag traditional 41+/X/10+ and 0/21/40 builds
- Yellow-flag everything else, including felguard builds, 40/0/21, 21/0/40, 30/21/10, etc.

This should catch and red-flag the most common no-nos (including any SL/SL PvP spec), and yellow-flag anything else that isn't widely considered optimal.

Mode · 12/17/07, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by Kalroth

How will you spend 31 points or more in Protection while avoiding 1H spec, mitigation focused or not?
I added 1HWS on purpose, because it's a clear cut sign that your points are misplaced, if you don't have any points in it.

But feel free to link me a proper protection talent spec, with 31 points or more, that doesn't put any points in 1HWS.

Here. It trades the points in OHWS for 5 points in Improved Demo Shout. The point you must take on the way down the tree is slopped into Improved Revenge - Which, granted, is worthless for boss fights.

I would still recommend making it a Yellow. It's not necessarily an indication of a need to respec, but it's worth a second look.

Elhana · 12/17/07, 8:03 AM

Originally Posted by koaschten

As for Rogue stuff.

red - any Blade Twisting
red - Riposte
yellow - Deadened Nerves

riposte is 3 points sacrifice which is used instead of 1 poison talent and Vitality which is a joke
on a bright side you get extremely energy effective move and 5% parry that you occasionally use on pve trash and which plays very well in pvp
If you got a content on farm this spec does well in PvE too, hence riposte - red is too harsh imo
On the other hand I fail to understand how 10% fear resist could make any sense when you got a tremor when you need it anyway.
The World of Warcraft Armory

koaschten · 12/17/07, 8:37 AM

Tremor doesn't get you out of Stuns, e.g. War Stomp on Kaz'Rogal. And Tremor does only tick every 4-5 seconds. But this is getting too far away from topic

And in Boss Fights you don't parry, because you are supposed to be 100% behind the target, so Vitality is definitely more efficient than Riposte.

• Kalroth · 12/17/07, 9:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mode

Here. It trades the points in OHWS for 5 points in Improved Demo Shout. The point you must take on the way down the tree is slopped into Improved Revenge - Which, granted, is worthless for boss fights.

I would still recommend making it a Yellow. It's not necessarily an indication of a need to respec, but it's worth a second look.

Personally I don't think -120 attack power matches +10% damage on all 1H hits, even if you're going for mitigation/survival. The additional threat from 1HWS is pretty big once you get a decent 1H weapon, especially since the 10% extra damage is added to Heroic Strike and Devastate too.

I'm not a big fan of 8/10/43 builds, but I suppose you could do something like Wowhead - Warrior 8/10/43 if you wanted to focus on mitigation/survival.

Vonwen · 12/17/07, 9:24 AM

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of TC threads regarding which template is suitable or not for any class, let's not turn this addon thread into a TC war.

Unaz · 12/17/07, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

If you have ToW, there is no point in either of the fire totem talents.
This is probably best put to the Elemental thread, rather than farting around in here discussing talent values.

http://elitistjerks.com/576943-post483.html

I agree with the fire totem talents, but they end up being a lesser of evils talent dump compared to some other things. As you can see if you looked at the actual flags I put on them.

Regarding elemental talents in a resto build, yeah, Elemental warding is decent, but it's really a pvp talent. You don't need it in a resto build when it costs 8 points to get. Those 8 points can all be spent in healing related talents in the resto tree.

Kalman · 12/17/07, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Vonwen

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of TC threads regarding which template is suitable or not for any class, let's not turn this addon thread into a TC war.

Actually, given that I have no desire to write talent scanners for 9 classes, please do continue to discuss what is a common set of requirements.

Malan · 12/17/07, 12:26 PM

Enhance shaman -

Roughly more than 10 pts in Enhance would define the tree as pretty much nobody is going to take 3rd tier talents unless they're diving further in.

Red flag if less than 5/5 Unleashed Rage
Yellow flag if 0/1 Shamanistic Rage
Yellow flag is 0/2 Enhancing Totems or 0/2 Improved Weapon Totems
Red flag if more than ... maybe 20? ... pts are in enhance and Elemental Devastation in Elemental is taken
Red flag is 5/5 in Shield Specialization
Yellow flag if 0/3 in Mental Quickness
Yellow flag if Toughness is 5/5, or if Anticipation is 5/5 (either one will usually mean that one of the other talents mentioned above were skimped on)

Standard raid builds are 0/45/16 or 16/45/0 although 16/45/0 is seen as a "selfish" build since it excludes increased totem range and also requires more hit on gear to reach the hit cap.