The AutoHotKey Thread - Page 3

arison · 05/30/08, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

1) Will they ban the AHK? Or will they simply monitor for AHK-like activity to also catch G15 keyboard users? Or is this just too low of a priority for Blizzard? I would hope they would be more concerned about violations that actually impact the game, rather than some guy spamming his shot rotation. But perhaps someone with a technical background could give us more insight into what would be easy to catch and what would be difficult to detect. For example, the macro mentioned earlier in the thread to hide your UI and then take a screen shot. That would seem impossible to detect. However, my spam of Healing Wave to test the proc rate on a meta gem for hours would seem easy to detect. And spamming a shot rotation during a raid would seem to fall in the middle of the two extremes.

So I'm the original poster of the lovely thread asking for clarification because I wanted to understand what was considered bannable or not. I mean, I hate spamming my mouse wheel, but I'd rather play by the rules. Sadly, the clarification pretty much makes it clear; spamming is bad. But can you get caught, as you ask?

Yes, I think you can, pretty easily. First, they can tell if the software is running. Maybe that's not bannable, but they can look for patterns of gameplay. People fixate on the idea blizzard could never tell you were spamming an ability because network latency would make the data hit their servers at inconsistent times, which is true, but completely ignores the fact they control the game client; in other words, they could watch for the repeating keys in the client code to measure average time between presses, etc. Likewise, for AHK, ControllerMate, G15 keyboards, etc, they also could look into the software's configuration to see if it has WoW-specific settings. How accurately they could nail, say, a key repeat spammer vs a mousewheel spammer is unclear, but I imagine it is doable (since mouse wheel spamming tends to have a large number of presses then a momentary pause as you move your finger back to repeat).

Of course, that's all pretty far fetched. I mean, they could do those things, but would they catch real cheaters that way? The ones who actually imbalance the game with 5 minute long macros wandering around AV? I dunno. I can't speak to their internal priorities about what kind of cheaters they are looking to catch. All I know is I don't want to get banned, or have anything on my account that could be a problem down the road, so now I'm doing horrible mouse wheel spamming instead (which probably gets me more presses per second than repeating software would but is much less convenient). I imagine their stern policy is because it's hard to bless some uses and not others in a consistent way the real cheaters couldn't plausibly hide between, so they throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Pixen · 05/31/08, 1:32 PM

I mean as far as shot rotations go, it's sad that optimal hunter dps gameplay basically boils down to mashing one key as fast as humanly possible. This probably would not be the case if it weren't for the macro system in the first place, which obviously grants us a lot of flexibility and is a bit of a double edged sword in that regard. Still, it seems odd to ban somebody for trying to alleviate the physical stress (carpal tunnel, repetitive stress disorder, broken keyboards) caused by poor game design. That's a whole separate issue though.

As far as cheating in WoW goes, this is probably way, way down the totem pole of bannable offenses. Still, it's much easier just to ban people for circumventing their system than it is to consider why they might be doing this in the first place. I'm glad I found that post though, because I certainly will be more mindful of my g15 usage in the future.

Furion · 06/03/08, 4:07 AM

As most useful things which can be done with AHK seems to be against the rules I'd like to express my anger about a few things which apparently cause the need for AHK in the first place.

For me the problem lies within the concept of WoW and mainly raiding, which expects you to put out your optimal damage/tank rotations for several hours straight, which is just unhealthy (strain on Hands and Fingers, hours of additional sitting after work/school whatever) and unfun (repetitive and thus boring) from my view. We need nothing less than a revolution of the game concept and the way your commands are translated to the game as macro spamming is really just a band-aid to ease this pain.

I think the desperation caused by this really drives many people to use macro spamming means and I can't really morally blame anyone for it(as it's probably good for their health and doesn't harm anyone), even though it goes against the game's rules.

As there is no moral reason to not use macros the only thing keeping people from using this is the risk of punishment. But there is always going to be a "grey zone" where we can expect to not be punished, the question is just how far you are willing to go with the risk. Back in the days when I leveled my warrior I used to charge a mob and do something else like read a book until the mob died, as spamming my moves didn't seem to make enough of a difference to be worth the trouble (Yes, leveling a warrior was THAT boring, even though it was my first character as there was way to little challenge and way too much repetition). This kind of thing can be done even without any Addons or other means out of WoW. And it would be pretty crazy to ban for this kind of behaviour, although it could well be called "unattended gameplay" and it might be actionable.

◊ manly · 06/04/08, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Furion

As most useful things which can be done with AHK seems to be against the rules I'd like to express my anger about a few things which apparently cause the need for AHK in the first place.

For me the problem lies within the concept of WoW and mainly raiding, which expects you to put out your optimal damage/tank rotations for several hours straight, which is just unhealthy (strain on Hands and Fingers, hours of additional sitting after work/school whatever) and unfun (repetitive and thus boring) from my view. We need nothing less than a revolution of the game concept and the way your commands are translated to the game as macro spamming is really just a band-aid to ease this pain.

I think the desperation caused by this really drives many people to use macro spamming means and I can't really morally blame anyone for it(as it's probably good for their health and doesn't harm anyone), even though it goes against the game's rules.

As there is no moral reason to not use macros the only thing keeping people from using this is the risk of punishment. But there is always going to be a "grey zone" where we can expect to not be punished, the question is just how far you are willing to go with the risk. Back in the days when I leveled my warrior I used to charge a mob and do something else like read a book until the mob died, as spamming my moves didn't seem to make enough of a difference to be worth the trouble (Yes, leveling a warrior was THAT boring, even though it was my first character as there was way to little challenge and way too much repetition). This kind of thing can be done even without any Addons or other means out of WoW. And it would be pretty crazy to ban for this kind of behaviour, although it could well be called "unattended gameplay" and it might be actionable.

The problem is simple. There is no server-side spell queue. If they were to put that, one day, then all spamming techniques would be rendered useless.

mikebro · 06/06/08, 3:29 PM

Not related to AutoHotKey itself, but the idea of not having to key mash... Logitech has a series of mice that have something called 'Hyper-fast Scrolling' where you mousewheel can spin freely for up to something like 7 seconds instead of typical 1 spin 1 click type deal. Does anyone have experience with a mouse that has this type of scroll? I'm curious if it generates tons of mouse wheel up/down key presses that you could use similar to the spamming mouse wheel up/down now but not as tedious.

Example of 1 of them: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mi.../130&cl=ca,en#

BOHIC · 06/06/08, 4:13 PM

I haven't seen anything mentioned that would prevent you from using AHK spamming as long as you physically release the key after each action your character takes. This should be functionally the same as you can release and then hold the key down again within the GCD, but it doesn't violate the one press/one action rule. I can't imagine Blizzard taking issue with this either since it keeps you at your keyboard.

whave · 06/09/08, 3:50 AM

Blizzard sent a warning notification at the login screen for players who were running WowModelEdit. I guess they will do the same to AHK if they will be getting more strict on this subject, not just banhammer us without any notice.

◊ Cadfael · 06/09/08, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by whave

Blizzard sent a warning notification at the login screen for players who were running WowModelEdit. I guess they will do the same to AHK if they will be getting more strict on this subject, not just banhammer us without any notice.

Interesting, I had never heard that Blizzard warns people before they take action. So after a quick google I found this screenshot:

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/5...8222343cp7.jpg

Seemingly they don't want to ban outright at the current time. But it should be clear enough at this time that they don't want people using it and probably will at some point.

What Do I Type Here? · 06/10/08, 5:00 PM

Hi, would anyone be willing to modify the standard code (or tell me how) to allow modifiers such as control/shift/alt?

Regarding legality:
First of all, this is absolutely the type of thing that you would never just outright receive a 'no questions asked' ban for, atleast at this point in time where the 'rules' haven't even come close to being defined. Every time someone in this thread has cited a GM response, it has been vague and obviously based on the idea that is is being used to completely automate a number of things.

edit: I figured it out
for example: alt+4

$!4::
   Loop  
   {
    if not GetKeyState("4", "P")
      break
     Send {Alt Down}4{Alt Up}
     sleep 1
    }
return

notice the ! infront of the initial 4

Tymir · 06/16/08, 8:57 PM

~*1::
Loop
{    
   GetKeyState, 1State, 1, P
   If 1State = U
   Break
   Else
   Send {!}
   Sleep, 5
}
Return

For Shift-1 I use this script. I'm not sure what you should put in place of "!" if you were writing an equivalent script except with an Alt or Ctrl modifier.

Inu · 06/25/08, 7:15 PM

Originally Posted by BOHIC

I haven't seen anything mentioned that would prevent you from using AHK spamming as long as you physically release the key after each action your character takes. This should be functionally the same as you can release and then hold the key down again within the GCD, but it doesn't violate the one press/one action rule. I can't imagine Blizzard taking issue with this either since it keeps you at your keyboard.

That sounds like it would be true honestly, basically what i do already, since im 1:1 macro, i only start spamming (manually, NO AHK) after the cast bar for steady shot is at about 75%. Since your letting go for the action to take place it should technically be legal.

◊ manly · 06/26/08, 3:03 PM

The problem has always been the lack of a server-side spell queue. If there was one, all of this would be needless.

Miaxi · 06/27/08, 10:22 AM

I use AHK to emulate Mouse4 and Mouse5 on my mouse for click casting. If Blizzard doesn't like that then they need to fix how their binding interface interacts with mouse software.

angayelle · 06/30/08, 8:12 AM

i am finally able to use autohotkey to spam my arcane blast key just by holding my button down, took me while to figure that i had to use the (') key rather than (4) key, maybe because i use a french keyboard...

anyway, i've set the sleep delay to 50 milliseconds but all my button keep flashing as autohotkey is spamming, is there a way to remove this effect ?

sorry for the bad english, it's not my native language.

whave · 06/30/08, 8:50 AM

No, your actionbars would flash even if you'd spam the AB manually that fast. That's not AHK-related.

angayelle · 06/30/08, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by whave

No, your actionbars would flash even if you'd spam the AB manually that fast. That's not AHK-related.

damn, thanks for the answer though.

DarthGreg · 07/16/08, 5:32 PM

I've found use for this program in other games/apps, but I've run into a problem. I need a way to toggle hotkeys on and off because, like WoW, many games have chat, and chatting is basically impossible with the hotkey setup I've configured. I've been banging my head against this for the last hour and slogging through the help file but it's been of little use; everything I try just doesn't even begin to work. Can anyone more familiar with it point me in the right direction here?

Figured it out, bound a new hotkey to Suspend.

`:: Suspend
return

Aiiane · 07/16/08, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by manly

The problem has always been the lack of a server-side spell queue. If there was one, all of this would be needless.

Wholeheartedly agree. It's something I'd like to see WoW import from Guild Wars and other games that have it.

Aaberg · 07/16/08, 9:23 PM

To DarthGreg:
This line will toggle the script using the Alt+2 keys.

!2::Suspend, toggle

Just replace the "!2" with whatever key you want for toggling.

Qoma · 07/17/08, 2:03 AM

To DarthGreg:
I also came up with this solution, a slightly more complicated but also more functional version of what Aaberg suggested.

~Enter::Suspend, toggle
~Esc::Suspend, off
~t::
~/::
IfEqual, A_IsSuspended, 1, Return
Suspend, on
return

Explanation: There are several ways for a player to enter or exit "chat" mode. These hotkeys suspend (or un-suspend) your current script. "Enter" can open or close chat, so it is set as a toggle. "Esc" closes only, so it turns the suspend off. "/" commands (ie: /dance) open chat, and my personal whisper reply key is "t", which also opens chat. When a chat open key is pressed (Enter, /, t), scripts are suspended. When a chat close key (Enter, Esc) is pressed, scripts are enabled again. Each of these keys obviously retain their original functionality in WoW, in addition to their AutoHotkey function (for example, "Esc" will still cancel spells, or open your game menu).

It isn't flawless. When you use the auction house, or try to send mail to someone, you aren't required to hit any of your script suspending keys before entering data. For that reason, it is still good to have a normal toggle as Aaberg suggests. But for on-the-fly chatting, this is quite convenient.

• Althor · 07/17/08, 2:25 AM

I've had a G15 keyboard (well 3 now...I love them but they're rather unreliable) for a while now.
While I've linked my G keys to WoW macros for the sake of convenience I've never really put much effort into setting up auto-spamming macros and the like. Dabbled with them a few times but haven't "made the switch".

Partly this is due to the class I play, a Shadow Priest. This is of course for a couple of reasons. First of course, a Shadow Priest uses a lot more than just 1 spammable nuke over and over (or an easily WoW macro'd combination of nukes) and secondly because our of our "nukes" is a channeled spell.
Channeled spells of course don't really benefit from the casting changes introduced in 2.3 or 2.4 (I forget which version it was now). If you hit a new action while channeling (and you've passed the GCD) the channeling will be interrupted. The only way to avoid this is to add [nochanneling] in macros for all your spells. Sadly though this is purely a client side only check and thus means you're having to deal with the full latency penalty every cast.

So of course channelers unlike DD spammers actually need to watch Quartz's latency bar (or similar mods) and *estimate* when to press the next spell (or, true, hit a AHK or G15 macro'd hold-down-to-spam button). If you're on a nice stable connection close to your server, this would be rather easy. If you're a third of the world away from your server and your casting latency jumps around every cast then frankly you're likely to either err on the side of caution and lose DPS by having extra delays between casts or you'll accidently clip a tick and lose even more DPS.

As Manly has said a few times now, all of this could be avoided by having a 1 deep server side queue (or even in the case of channeled spells just having a server side version of [nochanneling]).

Blizzard recently (supposedly...I'm hearing the change didn't work) modified how Hunter's steadyshot and autoshot worked together to help prevent clipping because "spamming a button was leading to less DPS". The same thinking should be applied to channeled spells.

Anyway......while I haven't really made much use of these hold-down-and-win macros before (but would like to), I have to agree with a number of posters here that making them actionable offenses is the wrong way to approach things given the alternatives.

Also, sadly, am I the only one who forsees someone that gets banned for just this sort of thing attempting to sue Blizzard because Blizzard are actively encouraging dangerous behaviour (i.e. rapid repetitive actions) and punishing those that try to avoid causing injury to themselves?

As for Blizzard trying to detect AHK or the G15 software being used for "nefarious purposes" as in hold-down-to-spam macros... If they're doing it by recording when key events enter the WoW client and looking for similarities in timings and the like then fine, no problem with that from a technical PoV. But if they're searching through any sort of configuration data from AHK or the logitech drivers then please tell me (I'm not a lawyer. I'm not even American) whether or not this *might* leave them liable for the same sort of business tort charges that they brought against the wowglider people. The whole Warden thing depending upon how much it does could in theory violate the same "contract with customers" or whatever as wowglider apparently did with WoW could it not?

gggiiimmmppp · 07/22/08, 7:41 PM

I made the switch from spamming my shot rotation with my G15 to AHK, and my pinky is quite grateful for no longer having to reach over to the G keys. However, there's one side effect that I can't figure out how to correct.

I'm using the standard script from the OP:

#ifWinActive World of Warcraft
{
$2::
   Loop 
   {
    if not GetKeyState("2", "P")
      break
     Send 2
     sleep 1
    }
return
}

I have my shot rotation bound to 2, and multi-shot bound to alt-2. My intention is to be able to hold down the appropriate script/macro key all day to spam 2, and be able to press Alt and have it spam alt-2 for the duration. This way I can queue a multishot by holding alt while the previous steady shot is casting, and release Alt when the multishot goes off to resume my normal rotation. It works perfectly with the G15 keys, but now that I have this AHK script set up it completely ignores Alt until I take my finger off the script; in other words, if I'm holding 2, thus spamming 2, and I press and hold Alt, it will simply continue to spam 2 (as opposed to alt-2). In order to actually get an alt-2 to go through I have to release 2 and press alt-2 in combination, then release them again and press and hold 2 to resume my normal macro spam.

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out. "Send {Blind}2" sends a "2" without trying to fix the modifiers to send "2" explicitly.