Death Knight rune addons: How can we do better? - Page 3

Aedon · 11/08/08, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by neotron

This might be a good place to post about Magic Runes. It's my attempt in making essentially a "rune bar". The actual layout that can be used is already rather flexible:

Although I don't have any radial display options the sizing and directions (and sorting) is very flexible. You can have moving runes, or not, depending on preference. Unfortunately I had very limited time for actually developing this on my beta DK so I'm emulating runes while developing on line. My goal is to get a stable functional addon done before next week - it should already be very useful but it's lacking in features. Customizable fading options, GCD indicator etc. I also haven't gotten a runic power display in yet. Mind you I feel that runic power is much easier to track in general.

I also plan to add in indicators/notification of ability procs (so you can easier know when to throw out those free death coils for example).

Anyhow, any input and feedback would be welcome. Please comment here in this thread or in this thread @ WoWAce.

I like the first picture and last picture setup the best, clean, simple and easy to look at.

• neotron · 11/08/08, 2:19 AM

Fortunately it's really flexible in how you can configure it. I'm trying to figure out how to avoid making it overwhelming though - one method is to have a few presets to get you started. Working on "end of cooldown" notification options at the moment.

Frostx · 11/08/08, 3:14 AM

If it isnt too much trouble could you add timer bars for Frost Fever, Blood Plague, Crypt Fever/Ebon Plague, Sudden Doom and Rime procs? Rime proc is a self buff called Freezing Fog if i'm not wrong.

Probably let users have the option to enable/disable these extra bars, as some users might not want to have so much on their screen.

• neotron · 11/08/08, 4:58 AM

Added a couple of GCD warning options today. See this not-so-small movie for a demo. I'll look at adding bars for other things but not sure if I'll get that done before the expansion comes out.

Helps if I post the link to the movie: http://eongames.com/tmp/MagicRunes.mov

Seldric · 11/08/08, 6:02 PM

After having seen several rune addons, I thought I would provide my own feedback. The type of addon that I was most happy with on beta was something like LynRune.

Basically it is just a simple addon that moves the bar to an easier to see position, and will show you the cooldowns on each rune provided that omnicc is also installed. I know several people seem to like the completely re-written graphics and moving rune icons etc. but I found them very distracting. I was able to use this addon for several testing sessions on the target dummies and found that it gave me enough information.

As far as watching my diseases, I simply used DoTimer which I already use on my warlock.

Daedalix · 11/08/08, 10:57 PM

Great work so far on this new, unique interface element for our new class! Suggestions for Magic Runes (the one addon that looks the best to me at the moment):

1. Transparency in the bars when the rune is not yet available. The flash from transparent to opaque will give a visual clue that they are not available. Make the available runes brighter and the cooldown runes darker.
2. Counter or bar for the amount of RP currently available.
3. Enlarge runes that are currently available or have them flash/expand/contract upon activation.
4. Make The RP counter and any disease timer bars optional.

It seems like people are allowing the aesthetics of HOW to display the information to get in the way of actually displaying the useful information in a clear manner. I don't give a hoot what my interface looks like when I'm just trying to maximize dps in a movement-heavy encounter or while trying to learn an end-boss...

The above, LynRunes, gets the job done. A visual indication that a rune is not available (counter), a visual indication of what runes are available (opaque icon). That's really all we need. Something that won't take up loads of screen space when out of combat would also be a plus...

Essentially what I'm trying to say is that in all these rune addons, the most obvious visual element is given to the rune that I can't use right now. That may be aesthetically pleasing but does not work in a raid environment. Change catches the human eye. I need to know when a rune is available not watch runes that I can't use for 6 seconds move by. When I play my rogue or feral druid, as I stack CPs I get a small indication that I have a CP up. But when I have 5 up, something JUMPS OUT at me on my screen. This is what we will need as DKs. Not a christmas tree above my target frame, replete with rotating ornaments and flashing lights.

Another way to display this might be a thin-line vertical bar going across that gradually gets thicker as the rune becomes available. Rather than a solid moving bar that just stops when it's ready.

• neotron · 11/09/08, 1:40 AM

You wanted a simple icon display. How does this look to you?

http://eongames.com/tmp/runeicons.avi

Note that this is sort of a misuse of LibBars which I'm using for the display. I mean, I'm not even showing any bars or moving anything where the bars would be (essentially the bars use an empty texture and the spark is hidden). I might look at implementing alternative display options that use more optimal code paths, specifically for this kind of display, mainly to get optimal performance.

• neotron · 11/09/08, 3:24 AM

I just added different configurable alpha levels:

Out of combat (ready)
In combat (ready)
Active runes with a cooldown longer than the gcd
Active runes with a cooldown shorter than the gcd.

There is also an option to fade between the two active rune levels to make a bar/rune display become more visible gradually as the cooldown ticks down. I do have plans to add additional types of bars. The code has some support already due to some experimentation I did before, including per-bar configuration and creation.

Edit: Also added an option now to set the background texture and color (i.e the "inactive" bars that are diffuse gray bars in the above screenshots). This allows you to completely hide the bars when runes are ready but show them when runes are cooling down.

dr_AllCOM3 · 11/09/08, 9:38 AM

I have a few requests, so I can abandon my own rune addon

:
- Flash entire bar for 0.5s when it's ready ("Interface/Buttons/UI-Listbox-Highlight2")
- Play SharedMedia sound when a rune skill misses

function DocsRunebar:COMBAT_LOG_EVENT_UNFILTERED(self, timestamp, event, sourceGUID, sourceName, sourceFlags, destGUID, destName, destFlags, ...)
    if sourceName==playerName and event=="SPELL_MISSED" and temp=="Blood Strike" then --add more skills
        PlaySound("ReadyCheck")
    end
end

- Integrated Disease trackers, but they aren't important

Nephthys · 11/09/08, 10:41 AM

This thread is meant to be a discussion be about the pros and cons of different ways to display rune cooldown information and a place to provide new ideas. Obviously we need to talk about specific addons and examples, but this not a general death knight addon thread. Please keep the discussion worth reading, people. If your post is only an expression of preference without an explanation why you prefer that style of display, you are not adding to the discussion. If your post is only a feature request or a status update for a specific addon, you are not adding to the discussion. Those posts should be made on the Curse/WoWInterface/whatever site for the relevant addon, not on Elitist Jerks. Please see Forum Rule #8.

diospadre · 11/09/08, 12:18 PM

If you don't like a thread report it and move along. Let the mods do their job and don't go dictating what threads should and should not contain. Just because you posted the thread doesn't give you ownership, and just because discussion moves in a direction other than what you intended does not mean that it's breaking rule 8.

The discussion and progression of Neotron's addon is helpful anyway, as it is getting to the point where the levels of configuration allow you to do whatever you like with it, implementing things that were discussed earlier in this thread and eventually swinging focus of the thread back there.

• neotron · 11/09/08, 3:34 PM

Although I can see the benefit of notification when abilities miss, it doesn't seem to me that such a feature would belong in a DK rune status addon. To me it sounds more like a feature of a general "your ability X missed" addon. Not a bad idea but unnecessary to make it class specific.

I did post status updates since I made changes directly in response to ideas and requests in this thread. I will attempt to adjust my posts to not simply be an advert or status report of my addon - I will keep such posts to the WoWAce thread. If you're interested in more "instant" updates of what I add or don't add or plan to add, please use that thread instead.

On the general note on rune displaying, one thing I personally have an issue with in a normal UI is seeing that I have a death rune (or more) available. My visual acuity isn't great and I'm color blind. I was thinking somehow highlighting death runes (a glow effect perhaps) might be a useful option. Another idea is to have a little display with 4 icons - one for each rune type and simply displaying something like this:

(1) (2)
(1) (2)

I.e each icon has a number simply stating how many runes of that type is available (and fade alpha when none are available). The display wouldn't track time until the rune(s) are ready, only how many were available right now. Is that something that could be useful?

◊ Bryne · 11/09/08, 4:56 PM

I really think most of the visual feedback needs to be centralized - a separate window with separate indicators/numbers/totals just wouldn't be very effective, for me at least; needing to look in any location other than the primary rune bar/cooldown window is just going to be an annoyance.

If the goal is just to make death runes more visually prominent or compensate for colorblindness, I think a small glow or some sort of secondary ring around the rune icon would be a great indicator for that.

dr_AllCOM3 · 11/09/08, 6:07 PM

Originally Posted by neotron

Although I can see the benefit of notification when abilities miss, it doesn't seem to me that such a feature would belong in a DK rune status addon. To me it sounds more like a feature of a general "your ability X missed" addon. Not a bad idea but unnecessary to make it class specific.

For me it's important to know, since it can mess up your rotation. I can make my own small addon for that, you don't have to include it.

• neotron · 11/09/08, 6:19 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's bad. However I think it would make more sense to make it a general addon with entirely customizable miss warnings. It should be a very small addon and could be used by other classes too.

dr_AllCOM3 · 11/09/08, 6:30 PM

Rune ordering could be improved. Me and other like having their FU runes paired up. Best would be if we could simply assign a rune id to a bar. That shouldn't be difficult.

The background should stay static, right now it flashes with the bar.

Your addon is the best rune addon avaiable, good job

.

• neotron · 11/09/08, 7:46 PM

Behind the scenes I already do that (i.e each bar has a rune # set to it). However pairing up FU runes doesn't necessarily work well without also sorting on time. I.e if abilities miss or you somehow get "out of order" your neat FU pairs won't correspond to eachother (one might be ready and the other one just used). A simple bar => rune id won't work in that situation. It's not necessarily a hard problem to solve. You'd want something like this:

B B F U F U

the B B is always rune 1 and 2 but the F's and the U's would be sorted so the remaining cooldown matches as close as possible for both FU pairs.

jokeyrhyme · 11/10/08, 2:20 AM

This thread starts with a list of four elements that were considered important for any DK add-on to display. I propose we add... *hushed whispers*... the fifth element!

There's a brief window of time immediately after a rune refreshes wherein using it will trigger a shorter cooldown (as short as 8 seconds) instead of the usual 10 second cooldown. Does this window of time need representation somehow?

PS. I really like Magic Runes. SharedMedia support is a must for my interface, since I love keeping everything in theme. I feel it also covers all of the DK basics wonderfully. I'll be using SpellReminder for announcements, ability and cooldown timers, so I don't feel any of that is "missing" from Magic Runes (don't care either way if they are added as long as they are optional). /hug!

• neotron · 11/10/08, 3:20 AM

Hmm. I'm afraid that there will be so much notification that the addons will become unusable due to information overload. I mean it's pretty much a DK basis to use a rune as soon as it becomes available unless you're waiting to use a multi-rune ability. If you don't use your rune within 2 seconds... well maybe this isn't the class for you. That said, it would seem that a "this rune is ready" flash is a good indication of this.

This got me thinking though - doesn't this mechanic mean that you really don't have to worry too much about "clipping the rune" for up to 2 seconds after it becomes ready? It seems like the whole set of "gcd warnings" aren't really needed (at least not that much emphasis on it) since it's perfectly fine using an runic ability even as the rune refreshes - in fact it could be better to do it if you got the extra power.

I definitely would have to do some more testing once DK's become available. I didn't know about this mechanic until I read about it in the other DK thread and I didn't consider it when implementing gcd-related warnings.

Dristig · 11/10/08, 9:26 AM

neotron, the GCD warning people want is so you know whether or not you have a GCD before the rune you are waiting on is ready. For example, you just used all your runes. and you hit Death Coil. Can you hit it one more time before your next rune is ready?

On a more selfish note will rune location and direction be customizable on an individual rune level? I may just start hacking on your code instead of RuneHero to get the display I want.

• neotron · 11/11/08, 12:40 AM

I understand the purpose of the GCD warning but if it is actually benefitial to use abilities up to 2 seconds after a rune timer expires, it seems it'd be better to throw out another DC or two if you got the runic power. Am I thinking about it incorrectly?

I have plans to refactor the code to be more modular so the core is provided (handling config, events etc) but you could make a plugin addon that displays that data in any way it can. I doubt I'll get the ability to move runes individually done before WotLK though - not very much time left.

Banda · 11/11/08, 7:27 PM

So I was thinking about a design that I hadn't seen before and it seemed to me that something with a DDR or GH inspired bar would be most useful. I have no idea how possible it is to actually write mods with these features, but hopefully this will give someone a good idea.

The basic idea is to have a merged "race track" styled interface. I see a lot of mods with 6 bars "racing" to full as a designation of when runes are available. There is no reason why these can't just be condensed into 1 bar since the timing allows for it. With some simple color coding and some smart mod design you can designate easily when each rune will come off CD and where there are potential free GCDs by assigning them a color. Also you can detect when FU "runes" separately by calculating when a F and U are very close to refreshing at the same time, say <0.5 sec, assigning them a color.

Please forgive my bad MSPaint pictures. These pictures should be pretty obvious. Circles are runes on CD, filled circles are the respective runes ready. Red = Blood, Green = Unholy, Blue = Frost, Magenta = FU, White = Free GCD. I don't use it in any pictures, but Grey or something similar could represents Death runes. All colors "race" to the right (or left) off the edge of the track. Whether you like the thick blocks or the thinner bars, the CD is up when the front edge hits the end of the track. The track is 10sec wide and the blocks/bars are positioned according to the remaining time.

I say that this is GH or DDR inspired because in action it should remind you of watching the symbols shift toward the end of the "track" and you hit the right button at the right time, much like you would for DDR. Clearly you would need a common sense check that when there are no more runes on CD that bar would stop moving. The logically hardest part to make sense of seems to be how to detect "free GCDs" and then designate them with the correct spacing, and to also detect FU runes correctly.

Hopefully someone more adept at coding likes this idea and wants to try it out.

Auluras · 11/11/08, 10:38 PM

Now I'm not a MOD developer but I have read this and have no idea how difficult this idea would be but here it is.

Someone earlier mentioned the HUDs of old.

I was thinking how simple that would be and how it could fulfill everything that is wanted here.

Imagine your toon in the center of your screen and to your left is your Health in a simple crescent shape and to the left a bar for your RP. Now just slightly within this circle closer to your toon on the left you have from top to bottom a Blood Rune below that a Frost Rune and below that an Unholy Rune. Mirror this on the right and when a rune is used it jumps out to the life or Runic Power bar and moves back in add in a flashing function for the GCD and you have covered all your bases. Keeping your eyes center and being able to absorb alot of info about your toon without having to scan the screen

Aeryn · 11/12/08, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by neotron

You wanted a simple icon display. How does this look to you?

http://eongames.com/tmp/runeicons.avi

I like the concept. What would be really great, however, is if I could do three things:

- Use custom rune graphics, as I prefer the DKi runes.
- Use simple colored backgrounds instead of the round icons, or none at all.
- Use a different layout for individual runes. I prefer a 3x2 grid.

• neotron · 11/12/08, 11:25 PM

So I don't have any custom graphics to use (but will gladly accept contributions). the "background" is actually part of the icons themselves too. Different layout can be done once the rewrite is done - it can't be done with the current code base.