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11/25/08, 4:07 AM
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#121
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Piston Honda
Orc Death Knight
Tichondrius
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I've been using filters with OpenRDX to show me large timers for self buffs (Horn of Winter, trinkets, IBF, etc), my two diseases (anything else like Ebon Plague, Stroke, Death Grip, etc, seems really unnecessary), and self debuffs, all in the same area. For triggers I've been using MSBT.
Your proposed Deathboard has some interesting things to it. I really like the trigger system you have there, although I don't particularly like the typeface (but that's easily changed).
I think it would be useful to have an "on/off light" for Rune Strike, as putting it in text would be way spammy for tanks, but looking at your action bars to light up doesn't work well either (assuming you're not just macro'ing it into every attack, which I've found can seriously screw you at times).
The disease timers seem pretty nice, only providing a number at three seconds, but I don't think they look very good graphically. The red and blue outline seems like too much, the Blood Plague/Frost Fever icons are distinctive enough in my eyes.
Some kind of indication for Horn of Winter would be nice. I currently have my OpenRDX icon timer and an MSBT trigger when HoW fades, but it's kind of sloppy. The trigger will launch if another DK uses HoW, and there's not much to tell me it's about to be down before it goes down.
If you want to go further, you could include indicators for things like Blood Tap, Empower Rune Weapon, Howling Blast, etc. If displayed intelligently it could be very nice, though you run the risk of it simply becoming too much clutter with the more you add.
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11/25/08, 10:02 AM
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#122
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Von Kaiser
Orc Death Knight
Crushridge
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Are we sure about this Ebon plague interaction. The tootltip text implies that you get the 3% crit for having the talent whether the debuff is up or not. And if it increases disease damage and magic damage for everyone attacking then why would it matter if it is yours or not?
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11/25/08, 11:26 AM
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#123
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Ihmemies
I'm using Icehud's runes-addon for tracking runes. It shows if a rune is available to use or not, and that has been working fine so far.
What isn't working though is tracking of plague timers. I'd like to have only two timers visible for current target: one for Frost Fever, another for Blood Plague.
I tried DoTimer, but the configuration options were the messiest I've ever seen and the working logic was beoynd my understanding. Does anyone happen to know if there's some simple solution for plague tracking?
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I'm also using IceHUD's Rune display. It was easy to enlarge it and place it directly beneath my character's feat so I can easily see when they're on CD.
I personally find that graphical elements like scrolling runes, while neat, tend to be distracting. My goal is to be able to see which runes are available and remaining time until used runes become active. That's the information that's relevant to us from a play perspective. Fading/flashing runes with numbers on them meet this need perfectly for me.
As for tracking Plague timers, I use NeedToKnow. I highly recommend it. It's very clean and simple to use.
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11/25/08, 11:52 AM
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#124
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Hero of the Horde
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Originally Posted by Dristig
Are we sure about this Ebon plague interaction. The tootltip text implies that you get the 3% crit for having the talent whether the debuff is up or not. And if it increases disease damage and magic damage for everyone attacking then why would it matter if it is yours or not?
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Ebon Plaguebringer has two effects:
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Your Crypt Fever morphs into Ebon Plague, which increases magic damage taken by 13% in addition to increasing disease damage taken.
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When this is on a mob it increases disease damage taken and magic damage taken. All players receive this benefit.
Ebon Plague counts as a third disease (just like crypt fever). When your application is on the mob it increases the damage of your strikes and other abilities whose power is boosted by the number of your diseases on the mob. If there are two Unholy DKs in the raid, one will have their Scourge Strike's power boosted by Blood Plague, Frost Fever, and Ebon Plague, the other will have their Scourge Strike's damage boosted only by Blood Plague and Frostfever.
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Improves your critical strike chance with weapons and spells by 3% at all times.
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This gives a passive 3% crit and anyone who specs for the talent receives its benefit regardless of the number of other Unholy DKs.
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11/25/08, 12:55 PM
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#125
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Von Kaiser
Orc Death Knight
Blackrock
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Originally Posted by Dristig
Are we sure about this Ebon plague interaction. The tootltip text implies that you get the 3% crit for having the talent whether the debuff is up or not. And if it increases disease damage and magic damage for everyone attacking then why would it matter if it is yours or not?
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The 3% is valid for whoever spec'd the talent. The part that gets missed by one person is the bonus damage applied to scourge strike and blood strike, as well as the DoT damage itself.
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11/25/08, 1:03 PM
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#126
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Blackrock
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I have been using Magic Rune for over a week now, and it works decently enough for me, but I have a hard time with the DDR style scrolling of the graphics drawing my eye too far away from debuff cooldowns.
This is just a quick graphic I whipped up which shows what would likely work better for me (and possibly other people). This is a larger than I would have on my screen (I would put it about half the size), and the animation is choppy because I don't have the time to do it frame by frame,but it should give a good idea.
Notes
-With death runes, the frame takes on a gray color
-Instead of having the bar fade from black, cooldown could be indicated by black moving horizonal like timer mods
-Cooldown timer could be disabled or placed inside frame
-Runic power bar (thin horizontal) could be added to top/bottom of this frame
-Use of mod like debuff filter can place disease timers directly above or below this bar
-Flash (indicating cooldown finished) could be more subtle
-Enabling symbols inside the frames for added clarity (and help the colorblind)
-Someone with better color design talents than I can make the red, blue and yellow a more interesting color)
So if there is an addon maker who likes this design and wants to run with it, go for it.
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11/25/08, 1:22 PM
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#127
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Von Kaiser
Orc Death Knight
Crushridge
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Originally Posted by Faerlun
The 3% is valid for whoever spec'd the talent. The part that gets missed by one person is the bonus damage applied to scourge strike and blood strike, as well as the DoT damage itself.
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Ebon Plague does not have it's own DoT damage that I can find.
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11/25/08, 4:32 PM
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#128
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Death Knight
Kul Tiras
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When thinking about what sort of rune display we need to very quickly and effectively gather the information we need to make decisions during combat, I still haven't found one that really meets that criteria. All these rune bar graphs, moving/flying runes all over the place, and guitar hero style displays are all well and good for soloing when we can stare at the UI and not really care what's happening but I find when I need to actually pay more attention to the fight than the UI (tanking and PvP), that UI design really doesn't work out well at all.
Ultimately what do we need? We need to know what rune is available now, and when the next rune will be up. So I think instead of building rune displays around showing 6 runes, build a rune display that only shows 3.
So 3 runes, nice and clear, simple rotating OmniCC style cooldowns, showing only the cooldown of when the next available rune of that type will be up. We don't really need to know in the heat of battle the cooldown of every rune as we just spend too much time looking at the UI, we need to know what's there, what's next, and how long, that's it.
Death runes will replace their respective runes as they come. And for example when you have a rune set that has both a death rune and regular rune active, it will show whichever has the shortest cooldown, and in the event both have the same cooldown, the death rune takes priority on the display.
Basically how the UI would look would be very similar to LynRune, which is just the default rune UI scaled bigger in the center of the screen with OmniCC cooldowns, except there would be only 3 runes instead of 6. Add a clean runic power bar and clear disease tracker and I think it would be perfect.
Last edited by SurferX0 : 11/25/08 at 4:38 PM.
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11/25/08, 4:55 PM
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#129
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by SurferX0
When thinking about what sort of rune display we need to very quickly and effectively gather the information we need to make decisions during combat, I still haven't found one that really meets that criteria. All these rune bar graphs, moving/flying runes all over the place, and guitar hero style displays are all well and good for soloing when we can stare at the UI and not really care what's happening but I find when I need to actually pay more attention to the fight than the UI (tanking and PvP), that UI design really doesn't work out well at all.
Ultimately what do we need? We need to know what rune is available now, and when the next rune will be up. So I think instead of building rune displays around showing 6 runes, build a rune display that only shows 3.
So 3 runes, nice and clear, simple rotating OmniCC style cooldowns, showing only the cooldown of when the next available rune of that type will be up. We don't really need to know in the heat of battle the cooldown of every rune as we just spend too much time looking at the UI, we need to know what's there, what's next, and how long, that's it.
Death runes will replace their respective runes as they come. And for example when you have a rune set that has both a death rune and regular rune active, it will show whichever has the shortest cooldown, and in the event both have the same cooldown, the death rune takes priority on the display.
Basically how the UI would look would be very similar to LynRune, which is just the default rune UI scaled bigger in the center of the screen with OmniCC cooldowns, except there would be only 3 runes instead of 6. Add a clean runic power bar and clear disease tracker and I think it would be perfect.
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I'm using magicrunes with a sound ('bell') attached to a rune being ready. After only a week or so, I don't really have to look at the runes to know what I have available, unless I've been interrupted by something - you tend to know what you have ready, as long as you have audible indicators to tell you when runes come up (and assuming you don't have 2/5 in BotN or the like). The sorting behavior is wonderful - I can tell at a glance what ability I should use (and where I am in a rotation).
The bottom line is that you shouldn't tell people what they need, the best you can say is what works for you. And there is no 'perfect'.
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11/26/08, 4:01 AM
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#130
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Priest
Earthen Ring (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kehoe
I have been using Magic Rune for over a week now, and it works decently enough for me, but I have a hard time with the DDR style scrolling of the graphics drawing my eye too far away from debuff cooldowns.
This is just a quick graphic I whipped up which shows what would likely work better for me (and possibly other people). This is a larger than I would have on my screen (I would put it about half the size), and the animation is choppy because I don't have the time to do it frame by frame,but it should give a good idea.
Notes
-With death runes, the frame takes on a gray color
-Instead of having the bar fade from black, cooldown could be indicated by black moving horizonal like timer mods
-Cooldown timer could be disabled or placed inside frame
-Runic power bar (thin horizontal) could be added to top/bottom of this frame
-Use of mod like debuff filter can place disease timers directly above or below this bar
-Flash (indicating cooldown finished) could be more subtle
-Enabling symbols inside the frames for added clarity (and help the colorblind)
-Someone with better color design talents than I can make the red, blue and yellow a more interesting color)
So if there is an addon maker who likes this design and wants to run with it, go for it.
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I like it. It looks a lot like a nicer looking, more flexible version of DeeKay, which is the Rune addon I'm currently using (and which works very well for me). It is small and compact while still giving you the most important information.
The only thing missing for me with this (and DeeKay) is a three digits display of Runic power like for example Rune Watch has.
Edit: Small screenshot of DeeKay:

Last edited by Decius : 11/26/08 at 4:08 AM.
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11/26/08, 9:13 AM
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#131
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Piston Honda
Orc Death Knight
Tichondrius
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This isn't directly related to rune displays, but it's close enough.
As anyone who's played the class knows, when you've used up all of a rune type, all abilities that use that rune type go on cooldown. It's been mentioned that this type of thing can be buggy with abilities that have an actual cooldown (rune tap, DnD, etc) appearing as not on cooldown when the runes come back up.
It also poses another huge, hairpulling problem for me. Any cooldown mod (I've tried a few different things, trying the one from the Forte package right now) will pick up EVERY single rune based ability when you use your runes. Some addons have options like "don't show cooldowns less than x seconds", but if you do that, you're excluding things like Mind Freeze that I would much rather have in the centralized cooldown display than on my action bars.
Does anyone have some kind of work around for this? It seems impossible, and I'm really frustrated that Blizzard set it up this way. Now that I'm using an actual rune tracker, it's a distracting waste of resources to constantly display more than half my abilities as on cooldown.
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11/26/08, 9:33 AM
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#132
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Hero of the Horde
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Sadly I think that someone is going to have to write a DK specific cooldown tracking mod that only tracks IBF, Bone Shield, DnD, etc..
Even if all of the other cooldowns didn't show up, there are too many bugs with rune cooldowns for other mods to really deal with. As an example, watch yoour Bone Shield button during a fight. If it's on cooldown, it will seem to become available multiple times as Unholy runes refresh, even though the actual ability is nowhere near ready. Instead of using the cooldown provided by the client, the mod would have to determine the cooldown itself based on when you used it.
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11/26/08, 10:52 AM
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#133
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by diospadre
Sadly I think that someone is going to have to write a DK specific cooldown tracking mod that only tracks IBF, Bone Shield, DnD, etc..
Even if all of the other cooldowns didn't show up, there are too many bugs with rune cooldowns for other mods to really deal with. As an example, watch yoour Bone Shield button during a fight. If it's on cooldown, it will seem to become available multiple times as Unholy runes refresh, even though the actual ability is nowhere near ready. Instead of using the cooldown provided by the client, the mod would have to determine the cooldown itself based on when you used it.
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I can't speak to the cooldown bug, but I'm pretty sure some cooldown mods allow you to blacklist, whitelist, or both. I believe the cooldown mod that comes with DoTimer does this.
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11/26/08, 10:57 AM
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#134
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Piston Honda
Orc Death Knight
Tichondrius
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Right, that's what I'm talking about. The action button cooldown display is bugged to absolute hell.
Be that as it may, I can track things like Bone Shield accurately with mods like CooldownTimers (or whatever). They never pre-maturely show it as "up", at least in my experiences. The problem is that they track abilities like Icy Touch, Chains of Ice, Obliterate, etc, when you run out of runes.
Something like blacklisting all spellbook cooldowns under 11 seconds, while making an exception for crucial abilities like Mind Freeze, Pestilence, Dark Command, Howling Blast, etc...would be ideal, but that's way over my head. Blacklisting abilities under 11 seconds does indeed work, and quite a few addons have that option, but it becomes an incomplete set of cooldowns.
I'd like to find a way to do that in a way that will work with most cooldown mods, as everyone has their preference. I'm not looking to make a mod, just to filter out all these pointless <10 second calls. I doubt anything has such advanced filtering for this in an option panel, but I'm hoping it's possible through an .lua edit.
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11/26/08, 11:39 AM
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#135
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by level12wizard
Right, that's what I'm talking about. The action button cooldown display is bugged to absolute hell.
Be that as it may, I can track things like Bone Shield accurately with mods like CooldownTimers (or whatever). They never pre-maturely show it as "up", at least in my experiences. The problem is that they track abilities like Icy Touch, Chains of Ice, Obliterate, etc, when you run out of runes.
Something like blacklisting all spellbook cooldowns under 11 seconds, while making an exception for crucial abilities like Mind Freeze, Pestilence, Dark Command, Howling Blast, etc...would be ideal, but that's way over my head. Blacklisting abilities under 11 seconds does indeed work, and quite a few addons have that option, but it becomes an incomplete set of cooldowns.
I'd like to find a way to do that in a way that will work with most cooldown mods, as everyone has their preference. I'm not looking to make a mod, just to filter out all these pointless <10 second calls. I doubt anything has such advanced filtering for this in an option panel, but I'm hoping it's possible through an .lua edit.
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I don't know a way that would work with 'most cooldown mods' (and I doubt one exists), but TellMeWhen handles DK cooldowns very well, though it takes some configuration each time you change specs (since there are some new cooldowns in each tree).
I've also noticed that my action bar cooldowns sometimes don't light up when the ability can only be cast with use of a death rune. I think this only happens with abilities that take more than one rune.
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