improving timer bar mods - Page 2

Kit Engel · 01/23/09, 7:59 PM

NeedToKnow gives you bars in fixed locations, for specific debuffs that you define. So it's not a general timer, but it's immensely useful for tracking buffs or debuffs that pertain to you.

YttriumIRL · 01/25/09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kit Engel

NeedToKnow gives you bars in fixed locations, for specific debuffs that you define. So it's not a general timer, but it's immensely useful for tracking buffs or debuffs that pertain to you.

This is exactly what the OP doesn't want. This gives bars in fixed positions, and starts their cooldown with a full bar, no matter if they are 5 second cooldowns or 20 second cooldowns.

Something like this would be excellent; I currently use PowerAuras but as said previously, in some fights like Malygos, you have to turn your character in an arkward position or you have to strain your eyes to see the cooldowns. To know when all my things come off cooldowns and when I should refresh scorch or pop my trinkets (Or even see the internal cooldown to my trinkets to make best use of abilities like Icy Veins) would be so useful. Building in a Guitar Hero-esque style would be brilliant.

Tifi · 01/27/09, 7:31 AM

Hello, I'm the author of EventHorizon. The purpose of the addon is to visualize your rotation.

The basic mechanic for most DPS classes is very similar. There are multiple nuke-type spells, and one filler spell. The nukes have a higher damage per execute time than the filler, but you can't always use them, either because of a cooldown, or because they apply a DoT. If you can't use any nuke, you use the filler. The better you keep all your nukes on cooldown, the higher your DPS. EventHorizon visualizes cast times and cooldowns on a common timescale.

Currently, EventHorizon is only for Shadow Priests. My idea is to make EventHorizon more like an API. Support for each class would go to different modules. On your Shadow Priest, you would use EventHorizon_Shadow, on your Warlock, you would use EventHorizon_Affliction or EventHorizon_Destruction. Those addons would use the API provided by EventHorizon.
So basically it would be very similar to how oUF works: Does nothing by itself but provide a framework for other addons like oUF_Lily.

I believe adding modules for Warlocks, Mages, Moonkins and Elemental Shamans would be pretty straightforward. Maybe Hunters too. However, I only play a Shadow Priest. I don't know what other classes need, or what spells they use. So what I'm looking for is people willing to author modules for other classes. Which means add the basic spells (very easy), and either implement additional features, or help me do that.

For example let's say you're a Fire Mage and you want to add Living Bomb. You need to find out the spell ID, so just enter 'living bomb wowhead' in google. The first hit is http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=55360, which tells us the spell ID, 55360. There are individual spell IDs for each rank of a spell, but it shouldn't matter which one you choose, just pick the first one you get your hands on. To add the spell in EventHorizon all you have to do is

self:NewSpell(55360, {
	debuff = true,
	dot = 3,
}

It's an instant, and it applies a debuff with a DoT that ticks every 3s.

You might also want to add a bar to track Imp. Scorch. The spell Scorch, however, is a different spell than the debuff Imp. Scorch. (It has a different spell ID, and a different name) So for Scorch, you (or I) would need to add another feature to the API: Track a debuff caused by a different spell.

So, if anyone is interested, you can contact me either here (PM) or preferably on wowinterface (comment on EventHorizon or PM), and we can talk about the details. Thanks.

Gaff · 02/01/09, 2:04 PM

I really like the sound of this & EvenHorizon. I'm currently using Quartz Buff Timers, it's only a 1 line change to make this behave in the manner described. Basically you need to change the Buff part (Buff.lua) and add the following

			for k,v in ipairs(tmp) do
				maxindex = k
				local bar = targetbars[k]
				if v.applications > 1 then
					bar.text:SetText(('%s (%s)'):format(v.name, v.applications))
				else
					bar.text:SetText(v.name)
				end
				bar.icon:SetTexture(v.texture)
				local elapsed = (v.duration - v.remaining)
				local startTime, endTime = (currentTime - elapsed), (currentTime + v.remaining)
				startTime = endTime - 20

The last line is mine, the rest is context if you want to know where to make the change. The effect of this is to make all basrs the same length (20 seconds in this case) regardless of the actual spell. It works suprisingly well. I've done this 'properly' with a config option etc and submitted it as a patch to the developers.

I'd also like to take the ideas from Need To Know and add that to Quartz Timers. I'll see how it goes.

Silly_Syra · 02/01/09, 2:42 PM

Your post reminded me of some things I saw while looking at timer mods yesterday.

ForteCasting allows you to force bars to all be of the same time i.e. your 20 second example.
Class Timer has an option that allows you to change the size of the bar based on duration if less than the max time setting you choose.

HereNow · 02/06/09, 11:23 AM

Hi all. I've not really posted here much, but have been a reader for a long time. Lots of good stuffs.

I did want to get in on this discussion because it is something that I feel is very lacking currently ingame. There are great buff monitors, DoT timers, Proc timers, specific individual timers, that span multiple addons that end up taking lots of space on screen and configuration and I'm sure processing time.

I do like the idea of EventHorizon too that is mentioned above. I used to use Sorren's EasyRotations (as a hunter) and it was a fantastic addon at the time. Having a moving timeline like that was by far the best solution I had ever seen to help you instantly tell the state of your shots, and help you get a "feel" for when something would be ready. I even continued to use it well into LK, even though 1/2 of the new shots were missing.

Anyways, I would love a solution like that again. Basically it would have to be configurable for which abilities you wanted on the time graph. Colour and texture of bars etc. Size and transparency. One of the great features of Easy Rotations was that you could make it mostly transparent so that it was not intrusive on the game window, just something that was there that you could look for if you needed the info, but otherwise would not interfere with the other activity.

Anyways, a great idea.

HereNow · 02/06/09, 11:40 AM

The other idea I had was a spectrum analyzer type display for all selectable spells/abilities/procs etc. Essentially this would be a vital info panel that can be displayed in a static location.

I have looked at, tried, and played with most buff timers/cooldown bars etc, and have not found one that really does the trick. Currently I am using DoTimer (which was recently updated in case anyone else uses it but did not know). As well as PolMonitor, and quartz target debuff monitor. (and of course omnicc on the buttons for the time remaining)

I do like DoTimer (although it really was a challenge to setup the way I wanted.) Pol Monitor is ok for what it does too. (basically allowing you to create buttons anywhere with a timer on it like in a normal button bar.) I have played with NeedtoKnow and TellMeWhen also, and they can be configured to kind of do what I want, but are more for putting specific things in specific locations. I want all abilities in one configurable location. Basically a customizable spell/ability/proc monitor system.

I don't know if there is any development going on in this area, it seems that everyone in the hunter forums are using a simular combination of addons, and I dont understand why they just couldnt be combined. (or maybe there is one out there that I am missing)

I don't know enough about this stuff to make one myself, but I wanted to list the basic features that would make it great incase there is someone out there that reads this that can do it.

1/ Combine the icon for the spell/ability with a timer bar (with optional name of timer if orientated horizontally)
2/ Configurable time remaining location (on button, on bar, nearby)
3/ skinnable textures/colouring with adjustable transparency
4/ Static and movable location of the icons/bars for each chosen spell/ability/proc etc. So you look in the same place for the info u need.
5/ Sizeable and groupable. (this way you could have say melee in one group, procs, shots, special abilities, dots etc
6/ Be able to change the orientation (horizontal/vertical)
7/ Ability time remaining, then cooldown time remaining on same button, and same bar.
8/ Highlight buttons that are ready. (or make them fully Opaque)

Basically what I want to do with this is create a "spectrum analyzer" type display of important spells, procs and abilities that I can put where I want. (it may go near the avatar and thus be semi-transparent, but close to my visual focus ingame, or near the bottom of the screen in an info-type panel. Not sure yet. ) Anyways, I would prefer that this be in vertical bars, with the icons right below. (For many though horizontal would be prefered and it should be able to be configured either way.) This will use space available more effectively. (especially with wide panel displays) When nothing is active, it is just the icons. (fully opaque) When something is fired the bar goes to max height (fully opaque say in green), then slowly returns back to the icon as time expires (changing from green to yellow to orange to red) as the icon text counts down. A second bar, (in the same exact location, say at 50% transparency to differentiate) will then go from max height back to the icon to represent the cooldown of the ability. (changing from red to orange to yellow to green to represent the cooldown getting close to finishing) As the icon is now counting down the cooldown.

Basically a simple display for when abilities are available, active, or on cooldown in a very small area. When you are using abilities etc, it would look like an active sound spectrum analyzer. Where instead of each bar representing a sound frequency, it will represent an ability. Not sure if that all makes sense, but at some point I will play around with a paint program and try to create an example. You could call it Spectrum or something.

One other twist on this that some people may like. Basically I would prefer the 2 bars (ability time/ability cooldown) to take up the same spot (above/below) next to the icon for the ability. Another way to do it is for the ability time bar to fire in one direction and the cooldown time bar to fire in another direction. When there are no bars the icon is highlighted and ability is ready. When it is fired the bar goes to max and returns from one side to represent the ability being active, while the cooldown bar is at max in the other direction and returning to the icon. When it gets back, the ability is ready again.

Anyways, when I have time I will try to cut and past together a picture of what I am talking about.

Eggi · 02/08/09, 8:49 AM

I started working on this and at least the display is now somehow like it is described here.

First posibility is to split every bar in its own section:

The second thing is to use the same bar for cooldowns and durations:

Both is possible at the moment. The biggest Problem seems to be the scale as there are things which take much longer than others. As you can see here KS is only 6 seconds (with less CPs even less) and the bars maximum is 60 seconds and so KS is a bit to short.

◊ Kyth · 02/08/09, 1:25 PM

The EBB model where you can create multiple bars and decide what's in them takes care of the complaint of "have to solve every problem and have things of similar lengths."

It allows you to customize the size/display/location of things you consider similar enough that you have them in the same set of bars.

Also for me, although not really appropriate for your example, more just a general comment:

Part of what is missing from the bar model is that it can't show what *isn't* there. It can't show me when something should be on cooldown but isn't.

DoTimers has a 'ghost' option which keeps the bar around for a bit after it expires, which starts to get close.

The lack of showing what isn't there was a problem years ago when I was first learning to use clicky trinkets for example, or when I was very first learning how to play my lock on raids in 1.0.

macbeet · 02/08/09, 3:31 PM

Thank for all the input, there is a whole bunch of addons I did not know before!

I tried ForteWarlock, and it is nice, but does not really work for me: The cooldown bar speeds up during the last second, which completely messes with my perception of time. I think a logarithmic scale is a great way to visualise the far away events. I would, however, prefer a linear sclae for the last 15-30 seconds.

One other thought: BigWigs has the option to move immediate events to an emphathized position, so basically this makes two displays: one for later events and one for immediate ones. I always deactivaed if, because I thought is was annoying, but with proper setup, this might work.

Tifi · 02/13/09, 9:44 PM

Just a quick heads-up to those interested in EventHorizon. I uploaded a new version earlier, which now has modules for Druids, Hunters, Mages (Deep Fire), Priests (Shadow), Rogues, and Warlocks. Still looking for additional module maintainers/authors.

Eggi · 02/14/09, 11:43 PM

DotIt : WoWInterface Downloads : Combat Mods

At the moment only for dots but as soon as possible I want to add CC, Cooldowns and Bossmod information (if I can get the information I need from the available bossmods).

At the moment the following spells are supported:

Rogue
Garrote
Rupture
Deadly Poison
Wound Poison

Death Knight
Frost Fever
Pestilence

Druid
Moonfire
Insect Swarm

Hunter
Viper Sting
Wyvern Sting
Serpent Sting

Mage
Living Bomb

Priest
Devouring Plague
Shadow Word: Pain
Vampiric Touch

Shaman
Flame Shock

Warlock
Immolate
Corruption
Curse of Agony
Siphon Life
Seed of Corruption
Unstable Affliction

Warrior
Rend

Short buffs:
Rogue
Slice and Dice

Blade flurry

Hunger for Blood

Adrenaline Rush

Hunter
Rapid Fire

Shaman
Heroism + Bloodlust

Potion effects
Potion of speed

Potion of Wild Magic
If you encounter any bugs, missing spells or maybe some other feedback please post them at wowinterface.

EDIT: I know that there are a lot of buffs missing... there are at least some more class buffs that are important and also some items.

Honorix · 02/15/09, 9:40 PM

eggi, nice mod. Before you get any further, I hope you plan to make modules to separate stuff.
In other words, by class, cc, cooldowns, and bossmod information. I'm sure some people won't want everything.

p3lim · 02/15/09, 10:48 PM

I totally agree with Honorix, its a very nice addon, but the addon needs to spread out a bit through modules.
Also a great thing would be to add custom spells, as per today all feral debuffs and buffs are not included.

Keep up the good work

Eggi · 02/16/09, 2:50 AM

Originally Posted by p3lim

I totally agree with Honorix, its a very nice addon, but the addon needs to spread out a bit through modules.
Also a great thing would be to add custom spells, as per today all feral debuffs and buffs are not included.

Keep up the good work

Thats actually what I wanted to do but yesterday I did not want to restart wow once again so I put the information together in one file.

I also have to add the possibility to add custom spells, because otherwise I would have to add everything on my own which would be a bit to much work to do.

Cambriel · 02/16/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Eggi

Thats actually what I wanted to do but yesterday I did not want to restart wow once again so I put the information together in one file.

I also have to add the possibility to add custom spells, because otherwise I would have to add everything on my own which would be a bit to much work to do.

Posting at work so this may be a feature already, but there needs to be an option to only display dots relating to the current target. Otherwise, classes like DKs that end up dotting up huge packs of mobs will end up with a dozen or more timer bars, which I don't think is your goal.

Another consideration would be how much customization you want to allow users to make regarding the time scale. The screenshots show 7 second ticks, but some classes might get more use out of 5, 10 or 12 second tick marks. A logarithmic scale along the lines of fortexorcist might also be most functional for some uses, such as integrating bossmod functions.

Papajan · 02/16/09, 11:56 AM

So I went to modify ClassTimer's code to have a pixel of width mean a fixed amount of time like I wanted and found out that it's basically all already in there. It's buried in the options window of course, but you basically set the time length you want 100% to mean and it works beautifully for anything less than or equal to that duration. It's been really helpful on my feral druid, for instance. The only thing it lacks is that things with a max duration over the limit you set get scaled like normal ClassTimer bars, so then you can't compare those long timers to your normal ones.

TangoDigital · 02/16/09, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by macbeet

I use lots of mods that fit the general theme: predict a future event and display the remaining time with a bar, and I am sure you do, too. For example: bossmods (dbm, bigwigs), bg timers (capping), classtimers (scorchio), buff timers, debuff times (dotimer), swingtimers (quartz), and many more. But I am not satisfied with them. Why? Let me explain...

...

Since bar mods have a big impact on wow visual style and player performance, I think we should look for new ideas here. I outlined one above and I am certain you will have some as well. /discuss

I think your proposal is very nice, but there is a problem with its implementation when it comes to DoTs, HoTs and cooldown spells. It would work extremely well for timers that aren't tied to specific spells (boss timers and such). However, lag and event flow on the client very often results in timers and their related events not being 100% in sync. What I am getting at is basically the fact that a timer bar often runs out, but the corresponding spell might not become available right at that moment. A DoT/HoT might not run out exactly at T0 on the bar because of pretty unpredictable delays. The actual "cooldown fade event" for the warlock's Chaos Bolt for example may end up firing a moment before or after the bar runs out, so you have to deal with synchronization issues. This will most likely lead to "jumping" bars on a timeline like you propose if you want to keep it accurate.

An alternative solution, one that I propsed on a thread in the warlock forums a while ago, would be a vertical icon based timeline display very similar to guitar hero. It would basically consist of horizontally aligned spell icons (or action buttons) which act like traffic lights. They glow green/red when the corresponding spell is active/inactive on your target. When they're about to fade they glow yellow, taking cast time for that spell into account. Every state change would be represented by those icons pulsing and possibly playing sounds. This is a built in workaround for asynchronous event timers.
The timers themselves would be represented by icons which "rain down" on this horizontal bar in their respective column of the vertical timeline, very similar to guitar hero.

Eggi · 02/17/09, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Cambriel

Posting at work so this may be a feature already, but there needs to be an option to only display dots relating to the current target. Otherwise, classes like DKs that end up dotting up huge packs of mobs will end up with a dozen or more timer bars, which I don't think is your goal.

Another consideration would be how much customization you want to allow users to make regarding the time scale. The screenshots show 7 second ticks, but some classes might get more use out of 5, 10 or 12 second tick marks. A logarithmic scale along the lines of fortexorcist might also be most functional for some uses, such as integrating bossmod functions.

It is already limited to 10 bars (that means with the buff bar you have a maximum of 9 dot bars). But adding a feature to limit it to the current target is absolutley no problem, but personally I have to say that the strength of the addon is the possibility to show more then one target.

To the ticks: in there since the first release. You can decide how long the bar is and how many steps you want. So its possible to have 1 - 100.

To the logarithmic scale: Will be added when I'm able to add bossmods. But at the moment I'm looking for a good way to display all the bosstimers in one bar. Actually my best idea is to use an alpha value that is around 0.1 so that you are able to see through bars that lay over each other.

Sympa · 02/17/09, 12:52 PM

I am trying to remember the name of the mod however there was something very like this used for hunters to track cooldowns in order to help set up a rotation. The bar sare below the cast bar displaying steady shot. I do not think however that this will allow the tracking of dots.

EDIT: Found the actual addon if it can be of any use to you. Sorren's Easy Rotations : WoWInterface Downloads : Hunter

Eggi · 02/17/09, 6:57 PM

I have uploaded a new version which should allow to add custom spells. I'm sure that is not perfectly working but you should at least be able to see whats possible with it.

Gaff · 02/18/09, 5:47 AM

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned here, but another "must-have" feature IMHO is the ability to see exactly when damage ticks on channeled spells will take place. This is a particular problem for 'locks and drain soul, which ticks for ~3.5k every 3 seconds for 15 seconds. The theory craft says you should reapply any DoTs that might expire while you are draining. Obviously you want to intrerrupt your draining immediately after a damage tick. I've noticed analagous problems for Rain of Fire.

So true to my (lazy) form I've patched up quartz timers to show ticks on channeled spells. Seems to work well, it's helped me play better to the tune of ~300 dps! I've submitted it to the quartz authors - If you're a Quartz user you can find the patch here:

WoW AddOns - 15 - Show damage ticks when channeling spells - WowAce.com

There two remaining issues:

1. Did I get the number of ticks for each spell correct? There's no API for this so I had to hard code them. You'd be amazed how few players know how many ticks there are in their channeled spells.

2. What exactly are the mechanics of knockback with channeled spells? Currently I don't take this into account, I need to do some more testing on this. Anyone know of an EJ thread that coveres this topic?

Tifi · 02/18/09, 1:30 PM

When pushback occurs, the absolute point of time when ticks occur doesn't change. The start and the end of the channel are modified to happen at an earlier point of time. By default, the difference is 25% of the channel time, but this value can be reduced by talents and buffs (Concentration Aura).
Ex: Mind Flay (3.0s cast time) is channeled from 10.000 until 13.000, ticks happen at 11.000, 12.000, 13.000.
Pushback occurs, and the cast is changed to be channeled 3/4=0.75s earlier from 9.250 until 12.250, ticks happen at 11.000, 12.000.

I didn't look at the code, but did you take latency into account? The only reason why ticks would be interesting to the player is to clip the spell. Which also means that ticks occuring before the GCD ends don't matter. I wrote a similar addon, but only for Mind Flay, see here Quartz LatencyMF2 : WoWInterface Downloads : Priest.

Gaff · 02/20/09, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Tifi

When pushback occurs, the absolute point of time when ticks occur doesn't change. The start and the end of the channel are modified to happen at an earlier point of time. By default, the difference is 25% of the channel time, but this value can be reduced by talents and buffs (Concentration Aura).
Ex: Mind Flay (3.0s cast time) is channeled from 10.000 until 13.000, ticks happen at 11.000, 12.000, 13.000.
Pushback occurs, and the cast is changed to be channeled 3/4=0.75s earlier from 9.250 until 12.250, ticks happen at 11.000, 12.000.

I didn't look at the code, but did you take latency into account? The only reason why ticks would be interesting to the player is to clip the spell. Which also means that ticks occuring before the GCD ends don't matter. I wrote a similar addon, but only for Mind Flay, see here Quartz LatencyMF2 : WoWInterface Downloads : Priest.

Thanks, so what happens between 12.000 and 12.250? Do you end up channeling for no reason? Or does the spell end early at 12.000? That has interesting repurcussions for drain soul, which is effectively five 3 second spells in one long channel. You very rarely want more than one tick. I should experiement, shame I suck at pvp...

No I didn't take lag into account, but hey at least it's client side so you don't need to wait for the SCT to see your ticks. It wouldn't be too tricky to include lag on each tick since quartz already has a lag metric. But unless lots of people beg me then my next project is Quarts Need To Know module.

• Chicken · 02/20/09, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Eggi

It is already limited to 10 bars (that means with the buff bar you have a maximum of 9 dot bars). But adding a feature to limit it to the current target is absolutley no problem, but personally I have to say that the strength of the addon is the possibility to show more then one target.

One interesting option to add might perhaps be to show DoTs applied at the same moment, which have the same duration, as a singular bar. To continue with the Death Knight example, getting 10 bars after using Pestilence does not really provide you with any more information than just getting a single bar would. Just a single bar showing your overall timer on the diseases you spread with Pestilence, while keeping the original bars in place as well, would be all the information you need.

The functionality is currently only really needed for Death Knights as far as I'm aware however, but it could be a useful option to have in case more abilities get added which apply a DoT effect to multiple mobs at once.