improving timer bar mods - Page 2

Kalman · 01/05/09, 8:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kit Engel

The old Ace debuff timer, DotDotDot, also did this. I don't think it's being maintained anymore, though.

It did something similar, not quite exactly the same. And no, I'm not maintaining it anymore (see infoblock for why); if anyone wanted to pick it up, you'd have my blessing. Anything outside of a configurable "window" of time showed as a full bar, and anything below that window operated as a linear width:time bar, maintaining the idea that any DoT with a shorter bar ended sooner.

Papajan · 01/06/09, 4:42 PM

I've been really wanting my timer bars to all have the same scale of width:duration for a while. Maybe an alternative would be something like 100% width means 30s or more, and anything with over 30s duration shows a jagged ending edge rather than a straight ending edge like bars with 30s or less remaining? (I just picked 30s off the top of my head, but it would probably vary by class or whether it's buffs/debuffs/cooldowns/etc)

• Adoriele · 01/06/09, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by Papajan

I've been really wanting my timer bars to all have the same scale of width:duration for a while. Maybe an alternative would be something like 100% width means 30s or more, and anything with over 30s duration shows a jagged ending edge rather than a straight ending edge like bars with 30s or less remaining? (I just picked 30s off the top of my head, but it would probably vary by class or whether it's buffs/debuffs/cooldowns/etc)

This is what I liked about ShockAndAwe and kept for Squawk. The ability to look at the bars and determine which one was going to end first based purely on their width, because they all* deplete at the same rate. Personally, I think a full bar instead of a jagged-edged one for an over-duration bar is a good idea, too, and will likely end up being how I treat those types of cooldowns/debuffs in future revisions.

Rokh · 01/07/09, 9:35 AM

ForteXorcist (ForteWarlock) has a logarithmic cooldown monitor that handles spell cooldowns similar to the displayed information above. Can't believe no one has mentioned it, yet, it's quite great.

(It's the bottom part of the image; above is simple a debuff timer similar to other mods we're used to; they're separate modules)

Dralmoo · 01/08/09, 1:09 AM

wow, forteXorcist is a pretty cool addon (which I had never heard of), although it does seem resource intensive.

It also has spell/dot timer bars with a fixed maximum like DotDotDot did. Definitely going to try it out some.

Quaunaut · 01/08/09, 6:47 PM

Forte actually works pretty well for everything I'm seeing, just on initial tests. Hell- it could serve even better than SAA on some things perhaps, if one got used to it.

I'm really impressed. I'd say the only thing it needs is some more custom settings for a Shaman- like the MW bar changing color when its at a full 5 stacks. Wow.

Cambriel · 01/10/09, 6:26 PM

I tried the ForteXorcist cooldown bar, and it's truly awesome. My only gripe is that it won't show buffs that proc off other abilities, such as Abomination's Might or Greatness. If it would map those the same way it does buffs from my own spells, that would make it pretty much perfect.

Fireflash38 · 01/12/09, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by macbeet

Moreover, the timers are often scattered and harder to compare, since they come from different mobs. (Will I have to refresh scorch before Malygos heads into Vortex? The answer takes more than a single look)

A simple design sketch

The basic idea of this design is a timeline from left to right, future events are to the right. As time progresses, the bars move tho the left, while retaining their length (Think of Guitar Hero

) This layout would emphathize the relationships of the cooldowns/events/buffs to each other, in order to help the player plan her next actions. Personal Events on the top, Boss events to the bottom and events that are to far away are indicated to the right.
A basic addon could provide the functionality, with modules for different types of events (buffs, swing timer, pvp, bosses, dk runes, dps rotations ... )

The way I would visualize this is not as something similar to Fubar (as the modularity aspect, where people write different stuff for it), but as similar to the style of the Actual Fubar (bar).

For instance, this would be positioned where the reputation/XP bar is on the default UI (or could be positioned). You could have 2 bars, one for times up to 1 minute, including debuff drop offs. The second bar would be customizable as to the time, and would not include debuff drop offs, but it would include other major events such as: Boss Abilities, Cooldowns (greater than 20/30s), and other stuff that does not need close watch, but still might be helpful in the long run.

Ideally, it would appear similar to the Forte deal, but personally, I do not like the color/width of the bar that they use, something thinner would be more preferable. Also, the time would need to be more visible for each icon.

Pater · 01/14/09, 5:32 PM

I really like the idea of a DDR/Guitar Hero type display--vertical rather than horizontal. Pseudo-3D feel where far-off events are faded or smaller or rotated to seem deeper into the screen. (I also really like the idea of the logarithmic time scale.) http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/ima..._screen002.jpg The bottom line is "now" and higher on screen = farther into future.

What are the categories of stuff you want to track? I'm thinking of 3 off the top of my head: (1) abilities that should be used/refreshed ASAP, either when they expire or the cooldown expires; (2) conditional abilities with cooldowns, but that won't necessarily be used immediately when available, like innervate; (3) event milestones, like phase transitions or enrage timers.

Flyingfig · 01/20/09, 5:26 PM

I'm going to take one step back in generalisation to "predict a future event and display the remaining time." With all the shortcomings that current mainstream bar mods suffer (to the point that they offer at best only limited utility in my personal experience), perhaps alternate display methods should be considered as well, either as different solutions or a source of fresh ideas.

One of the biggest problems I have with bar mods is, as macbeet mentioned, that they get shuffled around: I apply Rake and by the time I need to refresh it, its associated bar may well be in a different location. Thus leaving me to waste time tracking it down among the list. Another major problem is the relative complexity of a list of timer bars. Tracking such a list while wailing away at a test dummy is hardly taxing. But in a boss fight where a dozen other things require more of one's attention, reading through the laundry list of constantly shifting and rearranging bars becomes more challenging.

I've tried a variety of timer mods but the best thing I've found so far is actually just Power Auras. Given that the timer feature is in a static location, I know exactly where to look to find out how much longer I have until Rake needs to be refreshed. Given the image overlays I can see without skipping a beat which dots and buffs are up. If a picture is worth a thousand words, that's a lot of reading time saved for more important matters like paying attention to what's going on around you. For instance:

...tells me I have one second left on Rake, but clearcasting is up so next up is Shred. 14s on Savage Roar, 9s on mangle and 11s on Rip.

But as useful as I've found Power Auras to be as a timer mod, it's still lacking a bit. While the visual overlays are one of its strengths, it unfortunately makes the timers difficult to see if you're in a fight with a lot of bright ambient light (e.g. standing in the power sparks for Malygos). At the very least some of Power Auras' strengths should be considered for bar mods:
* An option to have certain buffs/debuffs show up in fixed locations along the list, or even allow for a timer to be pulled out of a list and set in a specific location.
* An option to customise bar coloring options by name as well as the more common buff/debuff type (thus enabling a little more at-a-glace utility).

Kit Engel · 01/23/09, 6:59 PM

NeedToKnow gives you bars in fixed locations, for specific debuffs that you define. So it's not a general timer, but it's immensely useful for tracking buffs or debuffs that pertain to you.

YttriumIRL · 01/25/09, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Kit Engel

NeedToKnow gives you bars in fixed locations, for specific debuffs that you define. So it's not a general timer, but it's immensely useful for tracking buffs or debuffs that pertain to you.

This is exactly what the OP doesn't want. This gives bars in fixed positions, and starts their cooldown with a full bar, no matter if they are 5 second cooldowns or 20 second cooldowns.

Something like this would be excellent; I currently use PowerAuras but as said previously, in some fights like Malygos, you have to turn your character in an arkward position or you have to strain your eyes to see the cooldowns. To know when all my things come off cooldowns and when I should refresh scorch or pop my trinkets (Or even see the internal cooldown to my trinkets to make best use of abilities like Icy Veins) would be so useful. Building in a Guitar Hero-esque style would be brilliant.

Tifi · 01/27/09, 6:31 AM

Hello, I'm the author of EventHorizon. The purpose of the addon is to visualize your rotation.

The basic mechanic for most DPS classes is very similar. There are multiple nuke-type spells, and one filler spell. The nukes have a higher damage per execute time than the filler, but you can't always use them, either because of a cooldown, or because they apply a DoT. If you can't use any nuke, you use the filler. The better you keep all your nukes on cooldown, the higher your DPS. EventHorizon visualizes cast times and cooldowns on a common timescale.

Currently, EventHorizon is only for Shadow Priests. My idea is to make EventHorizon more like an API. Support for each class would go to different modules. On your Shadow Priest, you would use EventHorizon_Shadow, on your Warlock, you would use EventHorizon_Affliction or EventHorizon_Destruction. Those addons would use the API provided by EventHorizon.
So basically it would be very similar to how oUF works: Does nothing by itself but provide a framework for other addons like oUF_Lily.

I believe adding modules for Warlocks, Mages, Moonkins and Elemental Shamans would be pretty straightforward. Maybe Hunters too. However, I only play a Shadow Priest. I don't know what other classes need, or what spells they use. So what I'm looking for is people willing to author modules for other classes. Which means add the basic spells (very easy), and either implement additional features, or help me do that.

For example let's say you're a Fire Mage and you want to add Living Bomb. You need to find out the spell ID, so just enter 'living bomb wowhead' in google. The first hit is http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=55360, which tells us the spell ID, 55360. There are individual spell IDs for each rank of a spell, but it shouldn't matter which one you choose, just pick the first one you get your hands on. To add the spell in EventHorizon all you have to do is

self:NewSpell(55360, {
	debuff = true,
	dot = 3,
}

It's an instant, and it applies a debuff with a DoT that ticks every 3s.

You might also want to add a bar to track Imp. Scorch. The spell Scorch, however, is a different spell than the debuff Imp. Scorch. (It has a different spell ID, and a different name) So for Scorch, you (or I) would need to add another feature to the API: Track a debuff caused by a different spell.

So, if anyone is interested, you can contact me either here (PM) or preferably on wowinterface (comment on EventHorizon or PM), and we can talk about the details. Thanks.

Gaff · 02/01/09, 1:04 PM

I really like the sound of this & EvenHorizon. I'm currently using Quartz Buff Timers, it's only a 1 line change to make this behave in the manner described. Basically you need to change the Buff part (Buff.lua) and add the following

			for k,v in ipairs(tmp) do
				maxindex = k
				local bar = targetbars[k]
				if v.applications > 1 then
					bar.text:SetText(('%s (%s)'):format(v.name, v.applications))
				else
					bar.text:SetText(v.name)
				end
				bar.icon:SetTexture(v.texture)
				local elapsed = (v.duration - v.remaining)
				local startTime, endTime = (currentTime - elapsed), (currentTime + v.remaining)
				startTime = endTime - 20

The last line is mine, the rest is context if you want to know where to make the change. The effect of this is to make all basrs the same length (20 seconds in this case) regardless of the actual spell. It works suprisingly well. I've done this 'properly' with a config option etc and submitted it as a patch to the developers.

I'd also like to take the ideas from Need To Know and add that to Quartz Timers. I'll see how it goes.

Silly_Syra · 02/01/09, 1:42 PM

Your post reminded me of some things I saw while looking at timer mods yesterday.

ForteCasting allows you to force bars to all be of the same time i.e. your 20 second example.
Class Timer has an option that allows you to change the size of the bar based on duration if less than the max time setting you choose.