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Old 03/07/09, 12:46 AM   #16
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Villeraz View Post
Just a note to consider on the topic of pets:

Greater Blessings cast on Felhunters, Succubi, and Imps will also be applied to warlocks. Those cast on Felguards, Voidwalkers, and hunter pets will also be applied to warriors. I believe that those cast on ghouls will also be applied to rogues (can someone confirm?). This also works in reverse, in that blessings cast on those classes will also apply to those pets. That means that the paladin assigned to blessing wisdom on warlocks cannot use greater blessings to also apply might to a felhunter; one will overwrite the other.

One problem with PallyPower is that it doesn't try to create this distinction between the pet types, and thus its automatic buffing is rather hit and miss with a mix of pet types. It could be better to have the mod recognize pets as members of the appropriate class, perhaps.
Hunter pets are considered Warriors, Death Knights are Rogues and Warlocks are Paladins the only Warlock pet that isn't is the Imp which is a Mage.

I just tested with a Warlock using a Felhunter and myself in a group, any Greater Blessing applied to the Warlock was applied to the Felhunter or visa verse but casting them on myself didn't apply them to the Felhunter despite it being classified as a pet, so I'll assume that it's linked by the pets owner not the pets class.

I would make rather not have to do pet assignments, Hunters and Death Knights both want Kings/Might as will their pets, but Warlocks I'm not sure of I would think they want Kings/Wisdom except for possibly the Felguard? Since a Greater Blessing on the pet overwrites the owners buffs, I won't add pet assignments but you will be able to set singles for them which should be more than enough.

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Old 03/07/09, 12:54 AM   #17
Kuthumii
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Thrall
Originally Posted by Shadowed View Post
Just because an addon works doesn't mean it cannot be done better, if the only criteria that people used before making another mod was "Does anyone have something like this that works?" you would have a lot less options to choose from.
His point was, a lot of the complaints are not the fault of PP, they are on the fault of the user not knowing how to use it correctly or how they want to, even when the feature is present.

If you could correct some of PP current problems, clean up the code, and reduce its memory usage; that would be an addon I would replace PP with.

What I would like?

-Seal timer similar to the RF window.
-Class windows like PP that display both Greater/regular blessing times
-Color coding to tell me if I need to click.
PP currently makes the class window gray if someone is missing the assigned buff, green if everyone is buffed as assigned, blue if I need to throw a regular blessing, and red if everyone is missing assigned buffs.
-Hide the entire interface until I mouse over it.
-Easier in combat buffing. (I can't get PP to always do the regular blessing on right click during combat, very annoying)
-Something to make buffing hunter pets less annoying. (Killing all hunters, as great as it sounds, isn't an option)

What I'd like to see go?

-Smart buffing. I see no use for it. Your quick buff idea might be more useful.
-PP telling me how many people are missing a buff. I already know someone is missing a buff by the window color, no need to repeat the info.

I don't see the need for more windows showing OOR people, dead people, or offline people. If I really want to know that I have other ways to see it and it doesn't affect my buffing. If someone is dead, they aren't getting buffed. Same for offline people. If you are OOR and come into range, the window can simple change color to let me know to I need to buff.

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Old 03/07/09, 5:49 AM   #18
Malleus
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by Shadowed View Post
Symbol counts: If they are out of symbols they will realize that quickly enough anyway (And what Paladin doesn't carry symbols on purpose?)
The symbol count isn't there for the benefit of the raider. It's there for the benefit of the RL/Paladin class leader who is setting up the buffs, so he can be sure everyone has sufficient symbols before the raid begins.

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Old 03/07/09, 12:45 PM   #19
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Malleus View Post
The symbol count isn't there for the benefit of the raider. It's there for the benefit of the RL/Paladin class leader who is setting up the buffs, so he can be sure everyone has sufficient symbols before the raid begins.
I suppose, but they'll still realize quickly and be able to ask someone else for it, I'm keeping the code in so I can add it later if needed but I don't see it being very important.

Originally Posted by Kuthumii View Post
His point was, a lot of the complaints are not the fault of PP, they are on the fault of the user not knowing how to use it correctly or how they want to, even when the feature is present.

If you could correct some of PP current problems, clean up the code, and reduce its memory usage; that would be an addon I would replace PP with.

What I would like?

-Seal timer similar to the RF window.
-Class windows like PP that display both Greater/regular blessing times
-Color coding to tell me if I need to click.
PP currently makes the class window gray if someone is missing the assigned buff, green if everyone is buffed as assigned, blue if I need to throw a regular blessing, and red if everyone is missing assigned buffs.
-Hide the entire interface until I mouse over it.
-Easier in combat buffing. (I can't get PP to always do the regular blessing on right click during combat, very annoying)
-Something to make buffing hunter pets less annoying. (Killing all hunters, as great as it sounds, isn't an option)

What I'd like to see go?

-Smart buffing. I see no use for it. Your quick buff idea might be more useful.
-PP telling me how many people are missing a buff. I already know someone is missing a buff by the window color, no need to repeat the info.

I don't see the need for more windows showing OOR people, dead people, or offline people. If I really want to know that I have other ways to see it and it doesn't affect my buffing. If someone is dead, they aren't getting buffed. Same for offline people. If you are OOR and come into range, the window can simple change color to let me know to I need to buff.
Seal and Righteous Fury timers will not happen in this mod, I'll probably do a separate one later on that does both of those but it's not going to be included in this by default.

I'm not a fan of the color coding in Pally Power. Blue for someone needing a lesser blessing isn't that intuitive especially when you're showing red for greater, it probably is going to do something more consistent say, no color for it's fine, yellow for people needing blessings but being out of range, red if they need any type of blessing and the actual frame will indicate if you're supposed to be using a greater or a single. You will have to click the frame in the end so it might as well be used to indicate buff status and only use colors to get you to look at it.

Right now the frame is going to look roughly like,

The smart buff "main" frame will show "# buffs missing" and is based off how many classes and single blessings are missing, it will show the lowest greater buff left on the bottom left, and the lowest single buff on the bottom right, the buffs missing would be on the top left, on the top right some sort of indicator showing that assignments are done.

Each class frame will show the a colored class name with a prefix for the assignment so "[K] Druids" for Kings on Druids, N for none and so on. greater timers on the bottom right and single timers on the bottom left same as the smart frames.

If a buff is missing it will show the frame as red, if buffs are missing but they are out of range it will be yellow. Eventually do the pop out frames on each class to show you the specific status of each person of that class and let you cast on that person specifically but for now just the above.

Unfortunately the limitations on buffing in combat are mostly Blizzard limitations, while I can make it so you can cast Greater Blessings I cannot do singles automatically since those aren't a static list of people (And I can't make a list of, cast Blessing Z on B -> Blessing Y on A in combat)

You can do this in combat:
  • Buff classes in combat through a class window (Providing the person who set it on doesn't leave in the middle)
  • Buff players with single blessings in combat through a new window that pops out when you mouse over there class
  • Make all of the class frames show in combat if you mouse over the main buffing frame

You cannot do this in combat:
  • Automatically buff classes with a single button or key press
  • Automatically buff players with a single button or key press, however if only one player in a class is assigned a single buff then it would work for being able to right click that players class and buff them, but that isn't intuitive or obvious

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Old 03/08/09, 4:22 AM   #20
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Hopefully I'll have a working beta by Monday or Tuesday, but here's mostly what the assignment interfaces look like. For single assignments, it automatically assigns the person with the highest rank buff available if say you only have one Paladin available it will only let you assign them one single blessing. Also the assignments done in the screenshot we're using the quick assign option.

Unlike Pally Power you will have to push assignments out, mostly this is because I don't want to be sending out communications data 30 times when you're changing every blessing. As was mentioned in the previous posts, you won't be able to assign pets greater blessings they will just get what there owner has, which is why you can assign Warlocks Greater Blessing of Might.
Attached Thumbnails
single.png   assign.png  

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Old 03/08/09, 7:22 AM   #21
wighti
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
One major feature that's lacking in PP - make it so that I can hide it untill your cursors moves on it.

For those that just *love* the simple and clean UI's.

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Old 03/09/09, 4:41 PM   #22
 frmorrison
Protector
 
frmorrison's Avatar
 
Ashstrike
Human Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Villeraz View Post
Greater Blessings cast on Felhunters, Succubi, and Imps will also be applied to warlocks. Those cast on Felguards, Voidwalkers, and hunter pets will also be applied to warriors. I believe that those cast on ghouls will also be applied to rogues (can someone confirm?).
You are correct. Yes, Ghouls and Rogues are the same with greater blessings, which is likely because Ghouls have an energy bar like Rogues.

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Old 03/10/09, 9:35 AM   #23
Silmemir
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Runetotem (EU)
I would like it to have more options to change the font/texture (ie work with Shared Media). Pally Power only has about 7 texture options, for example, which means that I have to use a different one to the rest of my UI, and since at the moment you can't hide the buffing boxes on mouseover, it just looks terrible. I really liked the screenshots you put up, thought they look a lot fresher and cleaner than how PP is.

One other thing I hate about PP is that typing /pp config shows up the entire buff allocation window rather than just the options/config menu which seems more intuitive. The options menu should be more easy to access.

Thanks for doing this, it's a great idea!

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Old 03/10/09, 4:54 PM   #24
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by wighti View Post
One major feature that's lacking in PP - make it so that I can hide it untill your cursors moves on it.

For those that just *love* the simple and clean UI's.
That's something I plan to do, but I need to play with secure frames which I haven't so it'll come later, as for the pop out frames on mouse over for classes that will come with 3.1 since it'll be a lot easier to do then.

Originally Posted by Silmemir View Post
I would like it to have more options to change the font/texture (ie work with Shared Media). Pally Power only has about 7 texture options, for example, which means that I have to use a different one to the rest of my UI, and since at the moment you can't hide the buffing boxes on mouseover, it just looks terrible. I really liked the screenshots you put up, thought they look a lot fresher and cleaner than how PP is.

One other thing I hate about PP is that typing /pp config shows up the entire buff allocation window rather than just the options/config menu which seems more intuitive. The options menu should be more easy to access.

Thanks for doing this, it's a great idea!
It's not going to have the same amount of options (If any) to change how the buff frame looks, right now you can set how many columns to use, show the entire frame, show class frames, hide in combat and scale. But special settings such as texture, font, etc isn't something I plan on. I might make it so they can be reskinned through Lua files but thats not a priority right now.
It's currently setup so /pb config is the actual configuration, /pb assign is the assignment interface.
Want to release this either tonight or tomorrow just need a raid to test it in, if you don't want to wait you can grab it off of my SVN at shadowed-wow - Revision 1145: /trunk/PaladinBuffer everything seems to work fine but no guarantees.

Also this will be trying a different way of doing range detection, because the Greater Blessings are visible range (Give or take a few yards) it will do two range checks, one is to make sure at least one person of the class is within 40 yards, and another to make sure that everyone of that class is within visible range. Meaning it will let you rebuff Warriors as long as 1 is within 40 yards to cast it on, and the rest are within visible range. If it turns out that it doesn't work that well I'll change it to force everyone to be within 40 yards.

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Old 03/10/09, 8:42 PM   #25
Feya
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Mal'Ganis
Thank god someone is attempting this. Pally Power is the worst implemented mod that is basically required due to a lack of competitors. Its obvious the designer has no concern for screen real-estate when doing an interface.

There is so much wasted space and frustration with this mod, I will be more then willing to test out whatever you need if it works better then the PP implementation ;p

Down with PP!

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Old 03/10/09, 9:05 PM   #26
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Well there you go Paladin Buffer : WoWInterface Downloads : Beta-version AddOns enjoy.

The buff frame still needs work, it's probably going to get changed to use the class icon, then have the greater/single timers on the right side since I can reduce the frame width then, but they work well enough to release now at least.

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Old 03/12/09, 10:31 AM   #27
Silmemir
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by Shadowed View Post
It's not going to have the same amount of options (If any) to change how the buff frame looks, right now you can set how many columns to use, show the entire frame, show class frames, hide in combat and scale. But special settings such as texture, font, etc isn't something I plan on.
Thanks for the answer, figured it was worth a shot. I think the skins/borders you have on there are very nice anyway - a million times better than PP! - and will probably integrate well with most people's Ace-based UIs (pitbull etc). So, not a real disincentive to switch

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Old 03/12/09, 12:37 PM   #28
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
Regarding Symbols of Kings - is it possible to query on zoning/resurrection, rather than every single buff? Getting an estimate on zone in is good enough overall. Querying on death is nice for heavy progression-wipe situations. It would be significantly less overhead than query on every buff, but also provide useful data for raid/class leaders.

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Old 03/12/09, 1:34 PM   #29
Disenchant
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Hellscream (EU)
While on the subject of blessing and buffing etc, can anyone recommend on a good addon that not only can manage pally buffing (i.e. assign buffs to every pally in raid) but also manage all other buffing in raid (i.e. priests, mages, druids etc)? ZOMGBuffs does a confusing job with it even for pallys, and Pallypower is really annoying with it as well...

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Old 03/12/09, 5:51 PM   #30
Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Exemplar View Post
Regarding Symbols of Kings - is it possible to query on zoning/resurrection, rather than every single buff? Getting an estimate on zone in is good enough overall. Querying on death is nice for heavy progression-wipe situations. It would be significantly less overhead than query on every buff, but also provide useful data for raid/class leaders.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but at most a Paladin is going to be using 10 Symbols per an attempt. Maybe 12-13 if you want to add people arriving late and such, so all you really need to know is: Do they have over 200, 100, 50. Because 100/200 you know they are still fine for a while, and if they are below 50 then they'll need more in an attempt or two.

What that would mean is, on a refresh it will send the actual number of symbols when you drop below 200, 100 or 50 it sends a status update. It's something I'll consider.

Originally Posted by Silmemir View Post
Thanks for the answer, figured it was worth a shot. I think the skins/borders you have on there are very nice anyway - a million times better than PP! - and will probably integrate well with most people's Ace-based UIs (pitbull etc). So, not a real disincentive to switch
Since the status colors aren't descriptive enough, going to add an option for those anyway to make it more clear, next push will let you set the border color as well.

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