Boss Nerfs & Fun - Page 2

BByte · 09/15/06, 11:54 AM

The spell resist change was compensated with increased HP on bosses, though overall the increased DPS resulted in faster kills.

Vael received a rather significant nerf (well, there were maybe 6 versions early on) when random BA stopped targeting melee. It still kept the encounter challenging and reduced luck effects & the need for warrior stacking so it was a good nerf in my books.

Taunt bugged drakes were indeed a pain, and thankfully eventually fixed.

Chromaggus has been changed several times. First changes were the big ones that basically made him killable without exploits. Since then at least Time Lapse has been changed, mainly the seemingly unintended aggro wipe. I think it was already earlier fixed to happen a lot less, and recently fixed to not happen at all. Always seemed unintended and random anyway when it happened.

• Nurru · 09/15/06, 12:01 PM

I admit that I'm still bitter seeing the Vael timer removed after all the time we spent learning him when BWL was released.

• Navaash · 09/15/06, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

Wasn't there also some change in how Berserker Rage worked that made it easier to break out of fear?

Yeah, early on changing stances when you were using a stance-specific ability would immediately kill that ability (i.e. if you had just thrown Shield Wall and accidentally switched to Berserker Stance? Oops, bye bye Shield Wall!). I don't remember which patch they changed it in but it was the same one that introduced the complete ridiculousness that was Sweeping Strikes + Whirlwind.

• SquattingCow · 09/15/06, 12:37 PM

Chromaggus, as of 1.12 (I think) no longer drops the MT from aggro after X lapses. So no tank transitions.

◊ Kytrarewn · 09/15/06, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by Apate

Sulfuron has changed, but 'buffed' probably isn't the right word. CMs said the changed was unintentional, but I'm not sure it's affected the fight as much as people claim. It's hard to say seeing as gear upgrades have come along steadily, so maybe he is harder.

I've been to a couple MC 'pugs' since the change. Sulf is definitely harder now, the healing is much more difficult for people to outDPS given that the "out of range" positioning is more tenuous, for one, and further out.

Brodda Thep · 09/15/06, 1:20 PM

Magmadar was buffed significantly. His spits used to do 300 damage total and you could melee and not take any significant damage.

Garr might have been changed. I swear he used to be able to blow up his adds even when bansished unless they were very very far away. Which meant that we fought his advanced version quite foten. Most people don't even know that there is a different phase that Garr can reach.

Rag used to go down every 60 seconds and summon his sons. Along with huge damage and frequent magma splashes.

Most of what makes MC much easier these days are the five second rule (This was HUGE), resist change, and mods. Decursive is a large advantage on many of the fights.

That and the number of items that drop was increased and the items themselves were buffed. I am sure most remember how common it was to get no items from Geddon.

◊ Praetorian · 09/15/06, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by Brodda Thep

That and the number of items that drop was increased and the items themselves were buffed. I am sure most remember how common it was to get no items from Geddon.

"Most" probably don't, but yeah. I remember killing Lucifron for the second time and getting a Tranq tome and nothing else. I mean, we were excited to have two tranqs for Mag and all, but come on.

Vosk · 09/15/06, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Brodda Thep

Magmadar was buffed significantly. His spits used to do 300 damage total and you could melee and not take any significant damage.

Garr might have been changed. I swear he used to be able to blow up his adds even when bansished unless they were very very far away. Which meant that we fought his advanced version quite foten. Most people don't even know that there is a different phase that Garr can reach.

Rag used to go down every 60 seconds and summon his sons. Along with huge damage and frequent magma splashes.

Most of what makes MC much easier these days are the five second rule (This was HUGE), resist change, and mods. Decursive is a large advantage on many of the fights.

That and the number of items that drop was increased and the items themselves were buffed. I am sure most remember how common it was to get no items from Geddon.

I'm going to force tomorrow's pug MC to kill all of garr's adds just to see what happens.

I still sort of wonder what the hell blizzard's plan was with the vael timer and the nef timer. Just seems mind boggling that there was an actual blue post saying you were only supposed to try nefarian once every 12 hours.

Nek · 09/15/06, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by blindworld

Taunt Bugged BWL drakes gave us such a hard time... I think we managed to kill ebonroc once after about two weeks of trying (when we finally gave in and pulled him to the green room and had everyone stand behind that book thing...), and then the next reset they fixed him. The clear after the fix was so easy in comparison, and we just did it right at the bottom of the ramp with no issues at all.

LOL, that book comment definitely brought back some old memories. The book didn't help =P It was just a funny suggestion and people thought it actually worked when we killed him for the first time.

Eylirria · 09/15/06, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Vosk

I'm going to force tomorrow's pug MC to kill all of garr's adds just to see what happens.

Say hello to the magmakin for me.

Boevis · 09/15/06, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Nek

Originally Posted by blindworld

Taunt Bugged BWL drakes gave us such a hard time... I think we managed to kill ebonroc once after about two weeks of trying (when we finally gave in and pulled him to the green room and had everyone stand behind that book thing...), and then the next reset they fixed him. The clear after the fix was so easy in comparison, and we just did it right at the bottom of the ramp with no issues at all.

LOL, that book comment definitely brought back some old memories. The book didn't help =P It was just a funny suggestion and people thought it actually worked when we killed him for the first time.

Among gamers, whose abilities inevitably rely on the roll of a dice one way or another, Superstition runs rampant. My current guild has everyone zone out after Razorgore, I'm still not sure why, and people that crash are booted from the raid because of some imaginary bug with ct_raid that prevented them from logging back on while still a member of the raid.

Brando · 09/15/06, 2:01 PM

Maybe I'm just imagining this but I remember there was a bug with Taurens being able to log out upon death and log back in alive. This had to be over a year ago as I only really remember us doing this on early MC bosses when our warlocks SS's were still on cooldown so we wouldn't have to run all the way back after a wipe. Which happened often as our first MT for Magmadar never trained berserker rage :0

◊ Praetorian · 09/15/06, 2:05 PM

Originally Posted by Vosk

I'm going to force tomorrow's pug MC to kill all of garr's adds just to see what happens.

I still sort of wonder what the hell blizzard's plan was with the vael timer and the nef timer. Just seems mind boggling that there was an actual blue post saying you were only supposed to try nefarian once every 12 hours.

Blowable spawns, legacy EQ implementation. Risk:Reward, prolonged learning curve, and all that.

Personally I still like the concept. Just not for non-optional bosses. But let's say there were a once-per-week boss (despawns after one wipe, or after 30 mins, or whatever) off the beaten path in a zone that dropped uncharacteristically high ilvl loot for the zone (no set pieces or anything necessary for completion), but obviously had a significant learning curve because of the limit on attempts. Would that be so bad?

Weigraf · 09/15/06, 2:06 PM

Something definitely changed in MC back then. I played a priest at the time, and I can quite clearly remember the melee dps of mobs being quite a bit lower than what it used to be. We had a priest who took a break before the patch and on his first raid, after he came back, he said something along the lines of "Wow, the guys hit like sissies". This was most noticable with Garr. Pre patch we used to have a few healers assigned to the MT before either of his adds were dead, post patch one healer was more than enough. And, unless my memory fails me, his dps barely broke 400.

◊ Praetorian · 09/15/06, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Brando

Maybe I'm just imagining this but I remember there was a bug with Taurens being able to log out upon death and log back in alive. This had to be over a year ago as I only really remember us doing this on early MC bosses when our warlocks SS's were still on cooldown so we wouldn't have to run all the way back after a wipe. Which happened often as our first MT for Magmadar never trained berserker rage :0

Yes, the tauren 5% hp buff would self-rez you upon relogging. It was pretty sweet.

Of course you could also rez released people from infinite range back then. You could Farsight-->Rez outdoors, which I remember having all sorts of fun uses when PvPing outside Ironforge or messing with Kazzak and such.

◊ Praetorian · 09/15/06, 2:07 PM

Originally Posted by Weigraf

Something definitely changed in MC back then. I played a priest at the time, and I can quite clearly remember the melee dps of mobs being quite a bit lower than what it used to be. We had a priest who took a break before the patch and on his first raid, after he came back, he said something along the lines of "Wow, the guys hit like sissies". This was most noticable with Garr. Pre patch we used to have a few healers assigned to the MT before either of his adds were dead, post patch one healer was more than enough. And, unless my memory fails me, his dps barely broke 400.

Perception bias. The numbers haven't changed. If nothing else, a blue-geared tank now has +def from Dire Maul and elsewhere. We learned Magmadar with an 8/8 Valor tank who got crit like a motherfucker. It sucked.

Brodda Thep · 09/15/06, 2:15 PM

I think a lot of it is knowing the value of shieldblock and demoralizing shout.

theemus · 09/15/06, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Perception bias. The numbers haven't changed. If nothing else, a blue-geared tank now has +def from Dire Maul and elsewhere. We learned Magmadar with an 8/8 Valor tank who got crit like a motherfucker. It sucked.

It's always fun listening to people complain that so and so's alt is going to cause us to wipe because there gear is so bad and then flipping through my old screenshots to see our MT on lucifron using a green helm of stamina.

• Apate · 09/15/06, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Originally Posted by Brando

Maybe I'm just imagining this but I remember there was a bug with Taurens being able to log out upon death and log back in alive. This had to be over a year ago as I only really remember us doing this on early MC bosses when our warlocks SS's were still on cooldown so we wouldn't have to run all the way back after a wipe. Which happened often as our first MT for Magmadar never trained berserker rage :0

Yes, the tauren 5% hp buff would self-rez you upon relogging. It was pretty sweet.

Of course you could also rez released people from infinite range back then. You could Farsight-->Rez outdoors, which I remember having all sorts of fun uses when PvPing outside Ironforge or messing with Kazzak and such.

Ornate Spyglass ressing was fun, and it actually made the item valuable. (Incedentally, one of the funniest thottbot comments ever was on that item..it appears to be gone, but some people have cut/pasted it into their comments)

Weigraf · 09/15/06, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Perception bias. The numbers haven't changed. If nothing else, a blue-geared tank now has +def from Dire Maul and elsewhere. We learned Magmadar with an 8/8 Valor tank who got crit like a motherfucker. It sucked.

I'd be very surprised if that was the only reason as everyone noticed it right away. I always assumed it was related to some change in the combat mechanics that wasn't very noticable outside of MC, but I have nothing to back this up with.

FunBall · 09/15/06, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by theemus

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Perception bias. The numbers haven't changed. If nothing else, a blue-geared tank now has +def from Dire Maul and elsewhere. We learned Magmadar with an 8/8 Valor tank who got crit like a motherfucker. It sucked.

It's always fun listening to people complain that so and so's alt is going to cause us to wipe because there gear is so bad and then flipping through my old screenshots to see our MT on lucifron using a green helm of stamina.

Ya, I remember our tank starting to try out +defense gear.

"Hey, this stuff isn't too bad."

Players that cry nerf are kinda funny. Everyone in the raid has now down the encounter 100 times, tanks have 2-3x more tank points than the blues and greens they came in with, DPS does 2x the damage they did at the start, and healers can basically last forever with improved gear.

But the instance got nerfed.

McInaction · 09/15/06, 2:46 PM

Don't forget the change long ago that made Tremor Totem break you out of fear effects. I know that made Onyxia and Magmadar a ton more manageable since all your healers weren't running around like morons for the entire duration of the fear. Wasn't there also some change in how Berserker Rage worked that made it easier to break out of fear?

Cheeta and aspect of the pack use to daze even if you took no damage. I remember throwing it up for onyxia and magmadar and you wouldnt walk more then 3 yards. Was fun in pvp too, warlock channels up a fear and I aspect and didnt go anyhere. They fixed it tho.

As for garr being nerfed.. meh. Use to joke around in MC back when BWL was on farm and AQ didnt exist yet, had a cloth 'priest' set for my hunter. Just green cloth items of like white robes and hoods. I remember wearing it and dicking off melee'n garr with an untamed and maybe 3k hp max.

Somehow the mt dies, i dunno I think a priest fell asleep, and he turns around and starts beating on me. I'm in CLOTH with almost no armor and only aspect of the monkey to save my ass.

I tanked him to death.

Norther · 09/15/06, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by theemus

Originally Posted by Praetorian

Perception bias. The numbers haven't changed. If nothing else, a blue-geared tank now has +def from Dire Maul and elsewhere. We learned Magmadar with an 8/8 Valor tank who got crit like a motherfucker. It sucked.

It's always fun listening to people complain that so and so's alt is going to cause us to wipe because there gear is so bad and then flipping through my old screenshots to see our MT on lucifron using a green helm of stamina.

Haha ya. Back when we thought 1/2 devout was FUCKING UBER geared. O god...the emberassing memories...

Mithin · 09/15/06, 4:34 PM

I remember raiding MC when it was the only 40-person raid in the game. I still feel it was some of the most intense raiding to date only because of the lack of gear and the lack of WoW experience in raid groups. No one can claim they were as good at WoW back then as they are now. We had healing rotations on the dog tanks for the Golemagg fight. One shaman in and then one priest and one druid (myself back in the day :P) rotating at 50% mana each. That was intense raiding especially when that tank would get burst down to 40% hp.

I also remember having to keep timers on every single dog, surger, annihilator (and sometimes giant spawns). That timer mod would definitely be part of "that one mod" thread today ><. I know you all remember the dog_dog respawning in 15 seconds messages :P

Ah, the good old days.

Oh and the no loot on baron thing. That was fun...

Let's not forget killing all eight of majordomo's adds only to have him continue to fight and constantly heal himself to full because some rogue decided to drop a battle standard on rag in another instance :P Not sure if that was even when domo had a loot table ^^

Anyways, back on topic. I don't think there have been any significant boss nerfs in MC. Just a lot of retuning and 'buffs' to players. Although I do remember garrs adds running towards him 2 or 3 at a time to explode and blow up the main tank :p