Infraction for Elsia: Trolling

◊ Kaubel · 05/17/07, 9:30 PM

Post: Raid Sizes and The Future of WoW Raiding
User: Elsia
Infraction: Trolling
Points: 1

Administrative Note:Message to User:

The door swings both ways, you know.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by Lumi

Except his point isn't apporpriate till we are deep inside BT/Hyjal. Currently many guilds are barely scratching away at SSC/TK due to heavy trash/bad tuning/bad loot which will all be fixed next patch. Honestly I quit for 3 months, played heavily for 2 weeks and was caught up in gear and keying progression with everyone else. If I played at a non-agressive pace for 3 months, I would have been done in 2 months.

Guys, please do not speculate what my point is. I have made my points clear in many different ways at many different places.

If anything Fagrim got closest just now in that it's not just one point really. Access may be the closest to a simplified description of what specifically gets in the way of folks like myself. But in the end it's lots of specific things that as a whole make lots of things just harder to get done and get in the way of raiding that used to be more accessible for heterogeneous groups in Vanilla.

Is this broken only when we need to attune for MH/BT? No. It's broken now.

What I like is people speaking to their own situation and the actual impact. I have tried to do this. Other people have tried to do this. Galatea for example just above gives yet another example of quite a few people describing this as their personal situation and how the structure impacts them.

But I don't see this falling on open ears here with a bunch of veterans where I expected that to be possible, rather we get people displaying a lack of perspective taking or worse, flaming. Well just Xi does but he is allowed.

The simple questions I really wanted to see an answer to, that makes sense for a heterogeneous raiding group: What was wrong with the access model of Vanilla and why can't TBC have it? And why did TBC need content funnels when Vanilla didn't have those either?
Why did TBC absolutely need hard keying (nightbane/gruul drops) rather than the more accessible soft keying (core mats)?

Still I haven't seen any satisfactory answer or suggestions to these question but that's alright. After all I have canceled my subscription and taken my consequences. Noone else needs to hear that it got broken for my own situation. I sympathize with those folks out there who have a harsher time too now and I hope that Blizz will indeed (a) realize what's broken and (b) fix it in due time. Because after all and still WoW is a great game worth playing, even for folks like myself. Just the new road blocks, time effort and the segregation is too much for some setups.

See there never was an issue for me if people say: "It works for me". That's fine. It describes your situation. Just don't tell other's that by projection it's fine for everybody. I really don't get why we can't get to a frame where things might just work for someone else as well even if their setup is different.

There is a lot of theoretical dissecting here like "oh but you can do mercy on the first run" and I feel like an R&D e-peen discussion. How is that addressing anything but ones own ego? How is that addressing that mercy and other attunement heroics runs are a 5-man funnel in a 25-man progression and how does that address that no such thing ever existed in Vanilla? It doesn't.

A quick thought experiment for those who actually like to understand a situation. Think of mercy trials for a group of 6 days a week raiders with 60-100% attendance. Now think of the same for a group of 1-3 days a week raiders with 30-80% attendance. How does the funneling time scale between these two settings? But that's just one of many aspects that are tricky... many folks mentioned parallel Karas and lockouts. This too is an issue that belongs into the same basket. So Xi tells us if you can't run 4, run 3. But this is what works in his hiring profile, in his group structure and with his group philosophy. Going from 2 to 1 is buying one bad setup with another bad one for us.

Understanding the difference here I think will go a long way in understanding why some say "no big deal - stop the QQ" and some say that it's too much.

Anyone considered that attunment efforts scale negatively with time commitment? And that the scaling may be worse than linear given the attendance pattern low attenders introduce (i.e. a low attender happen to not be able to attend the right run)?

Anyone considered that getting folks attuned for SSC in a hardcore group and making sure everybody get their Nightbane/Gruul pair for a lower time-commitment group scales very differently again and again disadvantaging more relaxed setups?

Anyone considered that there is absolute time and waiting for a couple of weeks for a few low attenders to get their drop to fill their slot isn't really acceptable?

So you tell me it's not hurting. Well it's not so surprising.

Given how even here it's hard to seemingly impossible to even get an understanding of what's hurting, I am not yet sure how it's gonna pan out with the Devs. For QQ more I can go to R&D for sure.

I plan to stick to my word and find other places to discuss this. I think it has turned out not very productive here, which is not what I expected.

P.S. Thanks Zifna, I really appreciate the sympathy.