Infraction for Gryzemuis: General Idiocy

Kaubel · 06/26/08, 8:05 PM

Post: [Rogue] PVP Stat Standards/advice
User: Gryzemuis
Infraction: General Idiocy
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Thanks for splitting that quote into nine fragments. We couldn't have followed your post otherwise.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by Towelette

This is all true, but you do need some PvP gear. Your armory isn't working for me at the moment so I can't see what all gear you have, but you need to have the 20res\2min trinket at the very least, and running with as low resilience as you're listing you really should get the 40res\2min trinket. If you don't want to put in the effort that's your choice, but I wouldn't expect very promising results if you choose not to -- just keep that in mind.

Agreed.
My armory is working fine, as far as I can see. I'll try keeping my pvp gear in there.

I do have the 20 resilience 2-min pvp trinket. I needed it for Archimonde anyway.
I have the new Guardian pvp necklace.
And I have the Merciless throwing weapon (had some spare honor points).
Those 3 items are my only true pvp items.

I have 5k arena points atm. I'll buy the Brutal Leather Tunic this weekend. But I'll keep the rest for S3 or S4 weapons if I ever reach the rating. So my first problem is, how to gem my new tunic. (3 sockets).

Two things you did not mention, which are very important, are your PvP spec and your DPS stats (and weapons) in PvP gear and spec. Gemming and enchanting is somewhat of a balancing act, so it's very difficult to give any advice when you only give us half of the equation.

I can do the balancing myself, I think, if I know what to go for. Is 12 stamina worth more than 8 resilience, etc. Can I ignore resilience (appartently not).

For arenas I spec subtlety/hemo/ShS of course. 20/0/41.
This is the spec I used before:
World of Warcraft Europe -> Talents

I have the 2 badge fist weapons.
I use ZA chest and shoulders, but I hope to get T6 shoulders this week, and the S4 chest.
Dory's embrace.
Badge bracers with res/sta enchant/gems, as my pve bracers have a lot of hit.
I'm getting the Belt of the Silent Path for pve tomorrow. My Don Alejandro's will be regemmed for pvp.
I'm using Grimgrin Facemask, with sta/res head enchant (as I have enough hit), and sta/res gems.
T6 gloves. Badge leggings.
I use the Karazhan boots for pvp, as I use my badge boots for pve. Karaboots with speed enchant and sta.
Ring of Deceitful intent + MH exalted rings, as they both have a lot of stamina. I could use badge ring.
I prefer my SoC over my DST, as the expertise makes me miss less kidneyshots, etc.

So atm, my stats (in combat spec) are:
10.8k health
102 res
1811 atp
168 hitrating (5% precision not included)
29.5% crit (including combat fist specialization, which I'll lose)
21 expertise (including combat expertise)
44 hasterating
500 armorpen (will get more with subtlety)

HP sounds about right for now, but that's still pretty low resilience for my tastes, particularly if you're running a spec that's not ShS. Whenever the next patch comes out, it's definitely too low with the listed changes to Cheat Death (damage reduction no longer static, based on resilience). You may do just fine with this level of resilience against Healer + DPS teams, but once a 2 DPS team notices how low your resilience is you're going to get nuked hard.

Whatever I do, with so little real pvp gear I will always be low on resilience. So I was thinking to not take Cheat Death, but spend my points elsewhere. You might be right about 2-dps teams. With my previous partner, we did fine against other healer/dps combos. My druid partner kept himself alive, I killed the other dps. However, against 2-dps teams, if they would target me, I would die quickly. 2-dps teams were definitely the hardest opponents. So I guess I need to gem and enchant mostly for resilience then.

You're not in 4pc S3\S4 and 4pc T6, so what they do does not apply to you. Many of them are also still above 300 resilience, which is more than double what you have; that being said, they have more leeway with adding DPS stats via gems and enchanting. As I mentioned in 1), you're going to be a much more appealing option when 2 DPS teams realize how low your primary defensive stat is compared to your geared Druid partner.

My question is: fights against 2-dps teams usually last very short. Do you think people can see my gear in such a short time, and realize it has little resilience ?

Completely ignoring resilience is a recipe for certain failure, if not now then when the CD change comes into effect. You're assuming that every opponent will focus on your healer, when the reality is that if they don't, you're pretty much screwed. Once they realize this, they'll do exactly that and you may find your rating start to tank.

I'm not in it for the long run. I want to reach 2050 (or 1800), get new swords, and stop playing arenas. I wanna get rid of my fugly badge fists. So I don't think people will start knowing and recognizing me. But anyway, thanks for the advice, I will focus on resilience in my gems and enchants.

The "benchmark" that I've seen most often is 300+ resilience, 10k+ hp, and then as much DPS as you can fit in.

But that is because having a lot of pvp gear will give you 300+ resilience anyway. So they have to work their way up to more dps and less resilience. I'm coming from the other direction. I have good pve gear, and trying to swap dps for survivability.

There is no necessary or best way to gem and enchant your gear, as it's determined largely by your teammate, your role, team composition, and your BG's level of competition. Some BGs you may have no trouble running a low resilience up very high because of weak competition, and some BGs even making it out of the 1600 bracket will be difficult with that stat distribution.

Battlegroup is Bloodlust-EU. Which I think is not famous for its high level of pvp. In S3, I've reach 1750 with an undergeared druid partner. Without really trying (doing the minimum 10 games per week mostly). But yes, surviving against 2-dps teams was the problem. Still I wonder, if I can dps one of them down before they can get me, my team wins.

My advice would be to determine first how much more resilience\hp you need. If you're having no trouble staying alive and your team is doing just fine with your 100res and 11k hp, then go for more DPS. If you find that you're not able to survive long enough to win the match, which is about what I'd expect when you start playing teams with more experienced and serious players, you may need to re-gem and re-enchant your gear for a little more survivability.

Understood. But I think I'm gonna go the other way then. Gem and enchant for survivability, and see how I do. If my partner keeps me alive easily, I can regem/enchant for more dps.

Most of your choices will need to be made from trial and error to decide what's best for you and your team for where you're at right now, and even these answers will likely change for you the further into the season we go.

Mmmm, trial and error is nice. But I had hoped for experience from the people at this forum.

E.g. when you ask about pve dps, we can tell you exactly what to do, without any need for more trial and error. I had hoped pvp people could tell me what is better for survivability: 8 resilience or 12 stamina ? And yes, I understand the difference between burst (sta is better) and constant damage (resilience is better).

Thanks for your answers ! They have given me some food for thought.