Warning for flyingtoastr: Trolling

Kaubel · 07/30/08, 1:22 PM

Post: [Paladin] WotLK talent trees/abilities discussion
User: flyingtoastr
Infraction: Trolling
Points: 0

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

I'm sick of seeing reports on you. Either tone it down by being less antagonistic and stubborn, or step away from the thread for a few days.

And don't send me a PM trying to explain yourself either, because I don't care.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by levk

DPS gets free raid spots. You want to minimize utility (tanks, healers) and maxout damage. So unless ret can compete for the top damage spot regardless of any buffs they bring ret doesn't get a free raid spot. Now if you're choosing between a shadowstep rogue against a pve spec ret, ret might win out a free raid spot based on that. But against a correct pve spec rogue? I don't know and it's obviously way too early to speculate, but color me skeptical.

But if you have 24 in your raid and it's a choice between a "correct" rogue and a ret pally who would bring more DPS? Assuming the ret pally has halfway decent gear and can mash Crusader Strike hard enough I'm nearly positive you'll benefit more from bringing that extra paladin over a third "pure" class that doesn't bring anything to the raid.

Maxing out damage doesn't mean bringing only the classes that can put out the most DPS, otheriwse every raid would be Destro lock x20. Utility DPS specs need to strongly be considered in raid composition.

Originally Posted by Hylo

We've done the whole Sunwell with 3 blessings fine. That is the highest end instance in the game and most likely will not be surpassed in difficulty before Icecrown. Now, one of those blessings has always been salvation/light (with the exception of hunters) - both of which are removed in WotLK. That leaves 2 blessings.

With the changes in JoW scaling and Judgements of the Wise (and other classes' similar talents) I _really_ can't see who would substantially benefit from 3 blessings unless sanctuary is heavily changed.

- Warrior and Paladin tanks: Sanctuary in it's current form is minus ~20-30dmg per hit and neglible tbh boost, BoW nice for palas but then again, you have JoW up
- Druid and Deathknight tanks: Sanctuary minus ~20-30dmg per hit
- Hunters: JoW will most likely solve their mana problems so no BoW needed
- Enhancement shamans: are already self-sufficient what it comes to mana so Wisdom is not needed, huge benefits from JoW
- Ret paladins: Currently seem that they will be self-sufficient without BoW due to JoW and Judgements of the Wise
- Holy paladins: gain 158 spell power if specced Sheat of Light

I suppose you're too lazy to look at spell costs, eh? I'll give you a clue, JoW might be hitting harder but most spells cost at least double than their level 70 versions. Hell Hunter shots alone have increased in cost by almost 300%.

So yeah, is a third blessing required? No. Is a third Blessing nice to have? Yes. And no matter how "useless" that third Blessing is it has some benefit which is added to bringing the third paladin that no other class can match.

And again, Holy Pallys will be Judging often, and Judgements do damage based on AP even if you're not specced Sheath. Prot pallys pretty much require Might now. Ret may be "self sufficient" with mana now, but JotW is bugged to hell, who knows how it will be in a raid?

Rememeber, regardless of class extra regen is always extra DPS. For a ret pally it means you won't have to use Plea as much or can take a Haste Pot instead of a Mana. For an Enhancement Shaman it means the use of SR as a damage mitigation method instead of popping it every cooldown to be able to use his abilities. For a Hunter it means Hawk instead of Viper. Almost every class can turn that extra regen into extra DPS.