Infraction for Jebraltar: General Idiocy

• Aldriana · 08/06/08, 2:47 AM

Post: The WotLK profession thread
User: Jebraltar
Infraction: General Idiocy
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/announcements.html, last post, #3.

Original Post:

I was simply putting mine into the world as it's been given to me.

Even so, looking at my character running about, plucking flowers or doing odd jobs so that I can afford to keep going is enough to drive me mad. Worse, it's the stuff that drives in-game gold sellers, since the more you have to farm to keep doing enjoyable tasks, the more you start to consider it a waste of your time.

(Arenas are their own separate universe, as is just about all organized PvP. I can't really say too much more about their end, but I don't think it's quite apples & apples, here.)

Aren't raids pretty close to that point, compared to open-world stuff? The open-world stuff is balanced around the assumption that you're alone, it has no scaling difficulty past whatever the appropriate zone is for the level cap, and the assumption is that, no matter how much content they add, people will have experienced all of it within a week or two.

I don't see why it's such a terrible thing for someone to be able to focus on whatever they enjoy in the game. I've seen this argument used countless times to justify greater PvP itemization, lowered PvE reward scaling, and an increasing number of new items acquired from outdated content. Yet, when it's suggested that raiding's logistical requirements be lowered somewhat, the response is often "You just don't want to do anything outside of raids!" That's true, I don't. I've already done every single quest in Outland on my Paladin. I didn't get Exalted with SSO because I didn't have as much time as I did when I got Exalted with Netherwing and Ogri'la within a week, and because the mobs tend to mana burn or do something else that's nasty. All that getting gold means for me is dedicating myself to going and doing something for 15-20 minutes that's not fun. Sure, Ogri'la was fun at the start, but by the time I got Exalted, the fun was dead. Ditto Netherwing.

The only content that hasn't been "ho-hum, already done" for me in the game has been raiding. Sure, I've got a few more reputations I could take to Exalted (SSO and Sporeggar on the Paladin for TBC factions), or I could keep pushing up my Rogue, but they all boil down to the same "do the quest you've done a dozen times already another twenty times" or "grind mobs until the M*A*S*H theme song starts to make sense." I don't mind playing outdoor content when I have new content, but telling me that I have to keep doing outdoor content that I've already done to death, content that is considered moreso a stepping stone to raids/PvP, so that I can do the actually enjoyable part of the game?

They could make me sit in Shattrath for an hour a day, with some sort of periodic check to make sure I wasn't AFK, to ensure that I remained a part of the community, too. ("Peace of Shattrath: Your HP is increased by 100% for the next four hours" as an imaginary buff gained by doing so.) All that would do is the same thing: Irritate me.

Short of them making Marks of the Scourge so incredibly common that no one could ever possibly run out, along with making Flasks unequivocally better than elixirs, raiders will still need to either go pick flowers or buy flowers from those who enjoy picking them. Short of blue and green drops, along with Primal-esque items, etc, becoming so common inside raids that guilds can always provide all of the materials for enchantments, people are going to need to run five-mans or buy enchanting materials from those that do so. The same goes for minerals and pretty much anything else you can think of. They've not made any effort to do any of these things. (Marks of the Illidari reduce the desire for flasks, which has helped bring their prices slightly down. All the same, it's still necessary to buy flasks if you're going for any reasonable sort of uptime.)

I just wish that other avenues had been explored first - whether it be diminishing returns or lockouts on same-style potions, cheaper NPC potions, introduction of other consumables that share potion cooldown, making potions be Unique (10) or something like that, having a Potion give off a spike of energy, hp, or haste 10 out of every 40 secs throughout a fight and have them wear off when combat is dropped, or any of a whole myriad of other things that could have been explored first.

Many of those have been explored. The similar-type lockout is already used, which is the whole reason we refer to "potions" cooldowns. Separating them further means that we'll just expect people to use more potions, increasing the money/time sink. Potions being Unique (10) is actually the worst imaginable solution, since it would just lead to people hearthing away and being summoned back in order to get their potions through the mail or off the AH. Having a potion give a spike effect is exactly what Haste and Destruction potions do. (As well as Nightmare Seeds.) It would force reactive use for mana/HP potions, but it boils down to doing the same thing as Potion Sickness for mana potions. (For health potions, if you would use more than one per fight, there's a distinct tendency toward you being dead before you can use the second.)

More noticeably, cheaper NPC potions has been done in multiple places! Ogri'la Ogre Brew, Cenarion Mana Salves, the Zul'aman vendor that sells Super Mana Potions (ymmv), and even, arguably, Tempest Keep's TK-only super-common potions. (Also, mana/health potions you get through PvP are arguably an attempt to let you do something enjoyable instead of picking herbs or grinding gold.) All of them just served as a bandaid for making the "hit button every two minutes to sustain useful status" mechanic less aggravating. We also shouldn't forget that daily quests were introduced for two simple reasons: to artificially prolong outdoor content and to provide a faster way of making gold, especially for characters with poor damage. (Thereby lowering the time cost of potions.)

(The only one that you've said that has not been tried is diminishing returns, which were explored earlier in the topic. The idea behind Potion Sickness is that potions become reactionary. Diminishing returns keep the "repeatedly hit button to stay useful" mechanic and add an irritating "plan your usage" mechanic.)

The biggest impact will be in the economy. Alchemy and Herbalism certainly won't be as appealing anymore. Exactly how it affects it will remain to be seen. Will we see 600 stacks of Frostplant and Icethingie sitting on the AH for 50 silver a stack?

Initially, yes. Then people will say "Well, I'm not making money," and they'll leave. The same thing happens with every profession every time that there's an increase/decrease in how much it makes. Eventually, the supply finds some acceptable medium with demand. (Let's not forget that they're adding Inscription, which will also consume herbs.)

Per item point, a haste pot is barely any better than buff food.

Wowhead has the average cost of a Haste Potion at 7g, and a Spicy Crawdad at 1g, 40s. You also need to take a Haste Potion once every two minutes, instead of once every half-hour. Both are wasted if you die. That's at least as important to consider as the size of the buff.

It's not going to be because people don't like chain potting, because countless people play this game successfully without chain potting.

A Brutallus tank losing 2000 armor is a huge impact, even disregarding the fact that Paladins and Shamans have enormous returns from Mana Potions. (Particularly Paladins, who currently have zero regen and are balanced around efficiency making them take as long to drain completely as other casters - for them, an extra 100 mp5 is an insane buff.)

If we really honestly believe that they can balance Sunwell so well that it accounts for chain potting, don't we also believe them capable of balancing the game to not require chain potting, but still have potions exist in a meaningful and fun way?

Probably, but is it worth their time to do that? I'd rather have to pay for one potion than seven, even if paying for seven would mean that I get to play the fun game of "health potion for AOE segments" or "haste potions for weakness segments," or, the really fun game of "health potion for AOE segments OR haste potions for weakness segments?"