Infraction for Greymist1: Useless Post

• LodeRunner · 08/22/08, 1:49 AM

Post: [Rogue] PVP Stat Standards/advice
User: Greymist1
Infraction: Useless Post
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

This is excessive quote splitting, and we even have a specific rule against that! Maybe you'd like to read about it! http://elitistjerks.com/f31/a34-new_...d_forum_rules/

Original Post:

Originally Posted by Melador

So I played some more with a much more pvp skilled disc priest friend on my Rogue,

Minor suggestion: as you replace the s3/s2 with s4, gem with agi gems wherever you're currently using crit/AP, even if it costs you stam/res socket bonuses (maybe throw in 1 agi/hit to preserve 1 bonus). I'm not a big fan of crit/AP. With Sinister Calling, agi gems give you more crit and more AP than equivalent crit/AP gems, plus you get dodge.

You may even want to replace some of your pure AP gems with agi gems.

Generally here's what I do in a match:

Open with a cheapshot (premed if possible), shiv crippling, maybe hemo, and expose armor if it's a rogue-or-under, armor-wise, otherwise rupture high-armor targets. Usually hemo again when I have the energy and SnD with a point or two. Then I stick on them, try to conserve energy for kicks if I need to, and otherwise try to keep either Rupture or EA up along with SnD. Is there anything in particular that I'm missing there?

Specific to rogue v. rogue, Perilous covered most of what I originally wrote here, but I'd also add that you can chain ghostly strike and evasion to get long periods of high dodge. (GS->evasion->GS)

I don't always EA cloth either, for the same reason: long kidney shots are a valuable way to control your opponent and there aren't many opportunities to sneak in a 5pt EA. I only EA if I have the CP to spare and/or it's a good time to switch to being aggressive. Otherwise I try to play patient, apply pressure, and interfere with my opponent's play as much as I can.

Missing interrupts I probably just need more practice at. I don't think I've ever successfully backed off of a melee target to deadly throw them, but I'm generally okay with kicks and gouges and kidney shots so long as I'm not currently stunned. I have a hard time kicking 1.5s casts (Shaman, SPs) that I'm not actively expecting -- is that typical, or should I really be able to get those consistently?

You should be able to get a 1.5s cast, but Shaman in particular can be very tough to interrupt sometimes. UI mods can help; if you don't already have an enemy cast bar with very large, readable text smack in the middle of the screen, get one.

The other problem is that if I in a match I feel like I'm doing enough damage, I hemo too much and end up energy-starving myself at inopportune times. And I feel like I have NO burst....even dumping a full rage bar of hemos into an EA'd target feels like 3k damage at most, unless it's a clothie, where it might be 5k damage if I crit a couple times over the course of 4s or so. It feels like my disc partner is bursting more than I am with MB/SW

, which is kind of pathetic. Is there anything more that I can do than saving up energy, making sure EA is up and hemo spamming?

Heh. Welcome to life as a rogue in modern arena, my friend.

There's not much more you can do. Even when you wear 4 S4 + 4 T6, you have no real burst as a deep sub rogue. If you want burst, you have to spec mutilate, which is not so viable due to how easy it is to kite anything other than a 41pt sub rogue.

The best approximation of burst available is to wear Berserker's Call and use it right before trying to unload a full energy bar into a EA'd opponent while you have S&D up. It's sort of a slow-motion burst. Use it after you've forced defensive cooldowns and have whittled your opponent down to 30% or less. And call for your priest to help you.

I guess I'll head into some random skirmishes and practice more, but it's pretty frustrating being "awful" and stuck around 1600. It also means that my gear upgrades are almost completely stalled...I could upgrade a couple s2 pieces to s3, but it feels like the difference there is going to be incredibly minor, so I mostly just need to get better with what I've got.

As someone who's also playing disc priest/rogue, I have to warn you that there are many FOTM comps with significant advantages over disc priest/rogue right now. (Either that or I'm bad, it's not like I've been higher than about 1900 rating.) If you start seeing an endless stream of warrior/druids, just stop queueing. Most warrior teams are a big challenge: well played warriors are ridiculously good at peeling rogues off their healer while ripping the rogue apart at the same time, which puts too much healing burden on your priest, at the same time as you are unable to apply any pressure yourself. (It's usually not a viable option to DPS the warrior yourself.) Druids are even worse; you'll almost never win the healer mana war versus a druid team, and even if you do manage to get them OOM, druids are by far the best healers when nominally out of mana since their HOTs are so efficient. Many other common matchups will require a lot of practice and subtle technique to get good at (mage/rogue for example).

The best thing we've figured out with warrior/druid, by the way, is to let the warrior start on the priest. Disc priests can kill warriors 1v1 by playing defensively and wearing them down with SWP. The druid will be forced to destealth to heal the warrior eventually, at which point you open on the druid and use every trick in the book to try to stay with him. If the other team is any good the druid will immediately lead you to the warrior, who will peel you off the druid, and it'll basically be over, but sometimes you can tempt them into keeping it 2 mostly separate 1v1 fights. You can win those, especially by forcing a trinket and then blinding/fearing one to set up a kill of the other (usually you'll be CCing the druid and killing the warrior).