Infraction for nightcrowler: General Idiocy

Kaubel · 09/03/08, 8:13 PM

Post: [Druid] Feral talents/abilities - WotLK preview / discussion
User: nightcrowler
Infraction: General Idiocy
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

http://elitistjerks.com/f38/announcements.html - second post, #5.

More than 25% of your posts so far have broken a posting rule. See you in a week, you little overachiever you!

Original Post:

Originally Posted by dukes

If you are assuming 4% more crit for Cat, I assume you have taken Master Shapeshifter, which means 4% more damage for Bear. Did you include this in the simulation? For the Bear simultion Swipe would be more damage than Lacerate (and potentially less threat), especially with the Feral Instinct buff to it's damage (although a 5 stack of lacerate may be worth keeping going).

Yes I've included 4% more damage in bear, and no, swipe will not be better than lacerate because you will have 5 stack lacerate always up (5 stack lacerate > swipe dmg wise) and you will always have the bleed debuff up.

Blizzard have made it clear they don't want Powershifting. If it turns out Cat/Bear shifting is more dps than Cat I wouldn't count on it lasting till live.

Well the increase is not too much, and you also need low latency and an optimal cycle with no downtime to do it efficiently.

I'm curious about these base numbers. What did you use as a basis for choosing these AP and crit values? Are you not expecting any expertise beyond the talent? I would count on quite a bit more weapon haste than you currently have: Imp WF alone is 20%, Swift Retribution is 3%, if you average the gain from Bloodlust is 30%*40/300=4%. While I haven't verified I'm pretty sure these stack multiplicative so 1.2*1.03*1.04 = 128.5% before haste rating (which I'm sure we'll have).

I've raised the haste according to your buff, as for expertise one value is equivalent to another one, it will raise the dps of all the different cycles. As for ap/crit value, I'm actually at about 5k ap and 50% crit raid buffed, I've assumed a 35% increase in ap (according to the 35% increase in stats I've seen in Wotlk) and a 10% crit nerf due to the agility nerf. Obviosly real value will differ from druid to druid. As for Bear AP basically the only difference from cat is Bear AP = (Cat AP / 1.1) - Agility - (flat ap), I've assumed a cat with about 800 agility, slight change in the relative ap will not change the simulation a lot, I suppose.

I thought testing was showing a SR/FB/Rip type cycle as best dps? Why Lacerate for bear? If you're not stacking the bleed wouldn't Swipe be better? Are you using enrage for bear?

If you don't powershift the value are about the same (about 1% difference) and you should waste 5 talent point to improve FB, The FB cycle will be better only with a crazy powershift (going oom in 2-3 minute).
Yes I use enrage.

Old powershifting was never a 20%-30% increase. Going from no shifts to 1 shift per cycle in end-game gear is about a 7% gain, 2 shifts is about 12-13%.

With live mechanic and ability I agree with you, but with the latest furor before the nerf and the new ability, powershifting every 8 seconds was a 20% increase for a SR/RIP cycle or a SR/FB/RIP cycle with finite mana or a 30% increase for a SR/FB/RIP cycle for a 2-3 minute fight.

Also note that cycles and dps numbers can shift drastically based on set bonuses. Are you including any current mechanics?

No, we don't know how will behave the set bonuses yet.