Warning for Todesunke: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.

• Aldriana · 02/25/09, 12:39 PM

Post: Free Hat: Deep Subtlety and You
User: Todesunke
Infraction: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.
Points: 0

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Please don't quote-split. Thanks.

Original Post:

@Denic

To start, Improved SnD on top of the SnD glyph is one of the better choices to make for a HaT build. The better stacked/geared your group is, the more and more you'll find yourself GCD locked on finishers. This means that extending your SnD allows you to fit more Eviscerates in per GCD spent on SnD, and is absolutely one of the strongest ways for this build to scale, since with a strong group Eviscerate is going to comprise roughly 50% of your total damage. The two points I'd sacrifice are in Precision, simply because if you are near top end gear you will have poisons capped with 3/5 precision. So with Evisc/Rupture (if used)/wound poison is capped, you're gaining 2% hit on a relatively low portion of damage.

I'm poison capped with 5/5 Precision. But of course you are right - if you are poison capped with 3/5 Precision putting 2 points in imp. SND is the best option.

I'm also not a huge fan of Blade Flurry. Once again, in an idyllic setting you will be GCD locked on high point finishers, and a 2 minute CD for 15% attack speed for 15 seconds isn't that great of an investment. HaT is also the build that has the least stacking synergy for BF, since you don't have Combat Potency or FA affecting your other damage. Granted you can pop a vanish and use BF during your MoS, but it's generally better to use your MoS during BL. Obviously BF should be used then as well, but to truly get the mileage of BF + Prep Glyph you want to, you may not be able to line everything up appropriately with BL unless you pop it immediately in the beginning. This is also not optimal, as you want BL to be running at sub-35%.

I agree that HaT is the build that has the least stacking synergy for BF. If you do it the way I proposed you start your first BF right after the beginning of the fight and use the second BF right after the first ran out. After about 2 minutes and 35 seconds your third BF is ready. In an assumed 3 minutes fight your third BF is ready when the target has less than 35% and it perfectly fits in a good timed BL. So what you get is 15% attack speed for 45 seconds plus the stacking effects from Dirty Deeds and BL for the third BF. 45 seconds is a quarter of the whole fight length. Now take a look at your wws to figure out how many % of your damage comes from white hits and poison. On the other hand you have to sacrifice 1 point from malice and loose 3 GCDs in the worst case. But from my experience I can tell that at least the first BF starts at a time when you are not GCD locked.

Once again, in an idyllic setting you will be GCD locked on high point finishers.....
For me, having less abilities that take up a GCD is key for this build.

I think that is the point where your assumption is wrong. You almost never been GCD locked. But don't take my word for it make a "simple" test while fighting loatheb. Ask your raid mates to help you doing the test. The key is that your group mates get every spore possible, while you get none. After the fight your DPS is significant higher than your DPS on a patchwork fight. The DPS after that Loatheb fight is what I call your HaT-DPS-Cap. The only way to get such a high DPS output is that you are really GCD locked.

@Mavanas

There is too little analysis here, not even napkin math. Can you back up omitting improved slice and dice and ruthlessness that are part of specs of many people who use HaT and can also be confirmed as optimal based on the HaT simulation spreadsheet?

Guilty as charged! I really need to apologize for that. I'm one of the greatest fans that spreadsheets ever had. I used them my whole combat and mutilate life, but from my experience HaT is something that is almost impossible to model. That is why I don't use a HaT spreadsheet and do very less math. In my opinion the only way to find out which HaT build is the strongest is to compare wws logs played with different specs. This may sound foolish but for me it worked out very well (best result was a third place in WMO some times ago). So all I have to offer is a build that based on my experience is above all other builds I have tested. I only can advertise you to give it a try.

What's better 2% crit or blood spatter? Again you need to run the numbers. Typically 80% of your damage (eviscerate, combo builder and white melee damage) is affected by malice. If you do not do a calculation of value of extra combo points generated by your attacks through HaT, all you can say is that 2 points in malice increases your damage by about 0.8%. 2 points in blood spatter increase about 9% of your damage (rupture and garrote, which you should be using instead of ambush since it's much better damage per energy and no extra combo point is going to cover that gap). Garrote is increased by 30%, rupture is increased by about 22%, if you have serrated blades (serrated blades effect is added with blood spatter before multiplying rupture damage), for a total of about 2% damage increase. You have to carefully model HaT mechanics before you can claim that the extra combo points generated because of 2 additional points in malice overcome the 1.2% dps difference.

The model I use shows that 2 points in blood spatter increases your dps more than 2 points in malice. The combined effect of 2 points in malice is about 1.2%. The combined effect of blood spatter is 2% as anticipated.

I have no idea where you get 9% dmg from rupture and garrote? The highest percentage from rupture and garrote I found in my wws logs was 4.8%. I checked a few WMO top fight logs and rupture (if even used) is about 1-5%.

As for aggression vs blood spatter, 2 points in aggression increase eviscerate by about 4.76% (6% from talent is added with improved eviscerate talent first, and only then used as a factor to multiply eviscerate damage). So if eviscerate is 50% of your damage, 2 points in aggression is worth 2.38% dps increase vs 2% from blood spatter. If eviscerate is 42% of your damage or more, aggression pulls ahead of blood spatter.

Eviscerate is more than 42% of my damage and it is more than 42% on almost every top dmg dealing HaT rogue on WMO (in fact every HaT rogue I checked). Besides nearly no top WMO HaT rogue uses rupture anymore.