Infraction for Kaoz: 4. Whining in any form is forbidden.

LodeRunner · 03/07/09, 11:56 AM

Post: Official 3.1 changes and discussion
User: Kaoz
Infraction: 4. Whining in any form is forbidden.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

You can come cry on my shoulder after your raid leader kicks you out of raids because Titan Grip is penalized by 10%. Until then, quit whining.

Original Post:

The hybrid tax debate. Since Ghostcrawler has been insisting that all hybrids should be doing equal DPS, I've been worried about the safety of our raid slots in high end 25 man raids. If a ret paladin or enhancement shaman or feral druid can DPS as well as a warrior, without having to deal with the whole we're fail without high quality gear scaling issue, and while having significantly more raid utility, what makes us worth a spot?

I posted this to summarize the issue on the damage dealing forums, and I'd like some higher end input :

Forget the whole hybrid aspect of the debate.

Which class is more desirable when forming a raid :

DPS warrior
Enh Shaman
Ele Shaman
Ret paladin
Feral druid
Balance druid

If you're hosting a 25 man you are 100% guaranteed to already have anything a DPS warrior would bring. Who doesn't have a feral tank for lotp? Who doesn't bring 2 paladins when they have the best buffs for everyone and general raid utility? Who doesn't bring a rogue, especially after 3.1 hits for expose armor? Why would you ever bring a fury warrior if a rogue does more DPS and has the exact same armor debuff?

Now look at what the other classes I listed bring regardless of who else is there. Shamans have heroism/self rez/general and spec specific totems. Paladins bring the best raid buffs in the game and powerful debuffs(judgements and 3% crit debuff) and auras(another dps buff aura) plus divine shield, sacrifice, salv, replenishment! etc. Druids while feral can tank or dps with the SAME gear and the SAME spec and do both efficiently and still manage to bring faerie fire and lotp which is a buff superior to rampage in every aspect(mana AND health restore and 100% uptime). The balance druid has the spell hit and spell crit that makes the pure classes beg for moonkins.

Now if all these classes did equal dps, when would you chose to bring a fury warrior? FORGET the hybrid stupidity, look at it simply based on what each player is bringing to the table. Fury warriors need something. It's obvious. Be it utility or dps. DPS is just easier to implement than another gimmick raid wide buff that will inflate DPS values for everyone and require additional tuning of 25mans.

edit: I also feel that the staple warrior community members should speak up on the damage dealing forum to try and give this issue some visibility. GC has posted that the TG nerf isn't a big issue in the community, and I don't feel that accurately represents how we feel about it. The general WoW community also doesn't seem to care much for our state on the PTR. If anyone is going to speak up it is going to have to be us.

Key posts :
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Warriors do not deserve a hybrid tax
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> [Warrior] Where SHOULD we be on DPS?
World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Thoughts on PTR Warrior Changes. Constructive

There's many other threads covered in pages of the hybrid tax theory debate.