Infraction for Furial: 9. Do not sign your posts.

• Vykromond · 03/15/09, 4:07 AM

Post: Tanking talent build
User: Furial
Infraction: 9. Do not sign your posts.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Don't sign your posts.

Original Post:

As Taurenlegend made a list of gear i would like to show you the one i've been working on with all the proper math behind it, but as i didn't see such similar list before i was wondering really why. i don't intend by all means to make this a "is this good?" post. If this is no place to post this, have it removed and my apologies.

First of all, if i'm making the list with explanations, i might as well just take 5 more minutes and add the Spec and Gemming.

Talent Spec
For a talent spec i'm focusing on pure tanking as dual spec will deal with the DPS factor. I don't know if it's valid to link it, but this spec is from a 3.1 Talent Calculator.

Optional Talents Justification below:

The reason for taking IW is mainly to prevent a worst case scenario where your prot war or DK can't attend a raid or even for fights where your other tanks won't be on your mob. (So far only Sarth 3D). Finally i took SA instead of KotJ for 2 reasons.
1- You would go for KotJ for more TPS but with lacerate critting, TPS will be higher already and avoiding Enrage on boss fights can be beneficial minimizing the chances you bite the dust.
2- SA will help you if you get some unlucky parries and dodge too much (considering DR on dodge and Natural Reaction's "3 rage when you dodge" rule).
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Gemming
Meta - [Austere Earthsiege Diamond]
Red - [Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
Blue - [Solid Sky Sapphire]
Yellow - [Delicate Dragon's Eye]

I go for Stamina until a certain point and after that I stack Agility all the way. I tend to worry with Hit + Expertise on gear only.
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Gear
Finally as the list, i was thinking on linking only what i disagreed with Taurenlegend there but well, i'll put the whole list with justificatiosn on the items contradicting the ones from Tauren.

*Item* - Explanation Below

Helm: [Hood of the Exodus]
Neck: *[Heritage]*
Shoulders: [Valorous Dreamwalker Shoulderpads]
Cloak: *[Platinum Mesh Cloak]* Same as with the neck. Comparing to Cloak of the Sun Shadowed Sun, we have +336armor, 15str, 1dodge VS. 13def, 32hit. Same armor as the neck, same numbers.
Chest: [Valorous Dreamwalker Raiments]
Bracers: [Thrusting Bands]
Gloves: [Valorous Dreamwalker Handgrips]
Belt: *[Trollwoven Girdle]*
Legs: [Valorous Dreamwalker Legguards]
Boots: [Footwraps of Vile Deceit]
Ring1: *[Signet of the Impregnable Fortress]*
Ring2: *[Deflection Band]*
Trinket1: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Trinket2: [Figurine - Monarch Crab]
Weapon: [Origin of Nightmares]
Idol: [Idol of Terror]
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Neck
Comparing [Boundless Ambition] with [Heritage] we're looking at 10str, 6str, 336armor, 14def, 31 exp VS 41dodge and 28hit.

Since the 336 armor doesn't multiply when you shift into bear, we're looking at 0.22% Damage reduction with 34191 armor, which translates into -33 damage from a 15k hit making it in my point of view neglectible.

I used this formula "DR% = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5))" for the DR% with Armor 34191 (my armor with that neck) and AttackerLevel=83 so please correct me if i'm wrong.

Removing the 6 str for mitigation purposes we have now 10sta, 14def, 31exp VS 28hit and 41dodge. As you get more expertise than hit on gear, 28hit becomes a bit more valuable than 31exp as you should have reached the soft cap ( dodge cap ) from expertise already. Finally 10sta and 14def VS 41dodge. 14 def gives you 0.12miss + 0.12dodge and 41 dodge gives you 1.025% dodge, so we're looking at 0.24% mitigation + 10 stamina vs 1.025% dodge.
Also worth mentioning that the DR on the miss will be smaller than on the dodge as you don't have as much miss.

This explanation is far from clear but i wish someone can make it more clear than this but from my correct/incorrect math Heritage looks better as armor without being multiplied is in most cases almost neglectible.

Cloak
Same as with the neck. Comparing to Cloak of the Sun Shadowed Sun, we have +336armor, 15str, 1dodge VS. 13def, 32hit. Same armor as the neck, same numbers.

Belt
[Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt] VS [Trollwoven Girdle]

Assume a 24 Stamina gem on Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt and we have 27sta, 8exp VS. 21agi. With top gear you should have more than enough stamina to go for the +21agi one. If you want to assume a 16 agi gem anyway, we're looking at 3sta, 5exp VS 5agi, leads to the same conclusion.
The reason i excluded [Deadly Gladiator's Belt of Triumph] right away is that regardless it's tempting agi and stamina, agi whose dodge will be nerfed with the DR and stamina that you might not "need", can't ignore also the 38/43 expertise from the other 2 belts and well... -60 AP will matter enough for you to take it into consideration because of Savage Defense in 3.1.

Rings
Again the situation with bonus armor not multiplyable in Bear. With the same armor assumed as for the neck and cloak, Gatekeeper(448 armor) will give 0.29% DR which translates into -43.5 damage on a 15000 hit. As for Keystone Great.Ring(490 armor) will give 0.32% DR which translates into -48 damage, therefore i'm neglecting both armors. Also as the STR on them are 32 38 38 43 i'm also removing them the next calculations.
We have 4 options:
1- [Gatekeeper] - 84sta, 41dodge, 28hit
2- [Signet of the Impregnable Fortress] - 84sta, 56def, 27hit, 21exp
3- [Keystone Great-Ring] - 75sta, 49dodge
4- [Deflection Band] - 75sta, 28def, 36dodge, 25hit

1- 9sta, 1.025% dodge, 28hit
2- 9sta, 0.448% dodge, 0.448% miss(DR wont nerf it much as you don't have much -miss), 27 hit. 21 exp
3- 1.225% dodge
4- 0.224% dodge, 0.224% miss, 0.9% dodge, 25 hit

1- 9sta, 1.025% mitigation, 28hit
2- 9sta, 0.896% mitigation, 27 hit, 21 exp (less DR as part of the mitigation is from miss)
3- 1.225% mitigation
4- 1.348% mitigation, 25 hit (less DR as part of the mitigation is from miss)

1- 9sta, 1.025% mitigation, 28hit
2- 9sta, 0.896% mitigation, 27 hit, 21 exp (less DR as part of the mitigation is from miss)
4- 1.348% mitigation, 25 hit (less DR as part of the mitigation is from miss)

After DR, the 2nd ring has more mitigation than the 1st as part of the mitigation comes from -miss and not dodge. As for me, when i replace Gatekeeper with Signet, i go from 41.30% dodge to 40.91% ( -0.39% dodge ) and i go from 0.84% to 1.28% defense, 2 stats (dodge+miss), so with gatekeeper you have +0.39% dodge and with signet you have (1.28 - 0.84 = 0.44) +0.88% dodge. +0.49% mitigation with signet.
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Missing Trollwoven Girble (using Sharp-Barbed Leather Belt), and Deflection Band (Using Gatekeeper)
Totally unbuffed my stats are:
Armor: 33855
HP: 33897
Dodge: 41.58%
Defense: 432
Hit: 151
Expertise: 40 (30+10)
Armor: 32627
Stam: 35337
Dodge: 35.98%
Defense: 420
Hit: 194
Expertise: 12
For some reason, the same gear, with the same enchants and gems was giving me +150 agility on RAWR so i used the in-game values.

For me to be right 3 things need to check:

1- My thoughts about neglecting the bonus armor as it's a small difference.
2- My math to be right.
3- Me not having messed up the diminshing returns on mitigation.

I hope this opened more discussions regarding gear, and if not, please let me know where i failed on my math/assumptions and why the bonus armor items are better.

Thank you,
Furial