While I have your attention, you derailed the Paladin PVP thread for more than a full page to make and repeat a point that is simply flagrantly wrong, so... don't do that.
Originally Posted by Amera
Think about this for a second. The only way you are going to tempt someone out of taking OP abilities in Ret is by making the holy options even more OP - otherwise, why would they switch? The holy tree would have to have something better than repentance et al for players to want to swap, and that wouldn't help the problem of paladins being overpowered.
So yes, the solution is to nerf the Ret abilities or make them unreachable, not to provide better alternatives.
I am thinking about it. Listen let's take this from another angle. Let's say, for example, that the rogue combat tree had a talent near the middle that allowed for 50% resistance to stuns and fears. Now let's also say that their deep assassination tree had nothing of real worth for pvp, making it a very obvious choice as to what build to use. Forced, you might say by a combination of lackluster assassination talents and shining combat talents.
Now, what if they were to leave the combat talents intact but make the assassination talents viable for pvp? Not buff them per se, just make them useful for pvp in a way that more rogues said "Ahh, cool, now my tree does what I wanted it to do this entire time".
The issue people were complaining about in my make believe scenario (which matches our real scenario) is the utility of the talents in combat. If you pull people away from those talents, the complaints cease.
Just think about WHY people are complaining. We can break stuns and remove snares with self cast HoF. We can repent any DPS that is chasing us, then hammer the healer. We have infinite mana. These are the only things that separate us from other healers. In fact "PALADINS ARE HEALING PEOPLE IN ARENAS WTF NURF" is not something you will hear on forums.
What I am saying is that there are three ways to handle this, make the ret tree look like a pyramid by moving all the talents to deep ret, nurfing the talents in ret, further breaking a spec that isn't great already, or you can fix deep holy to make it useful for pvp, thus pulling all the hybrids away from the talents that people are bitching that we abuse.
I never said BUFF holy. Holy is already great for pve. I said CHANGE holy. Anything that will pull paladins away from the ret talents will fix this situation. Would it be a positive change for holy in pvp? Yes. Would it be an overall buff to paladin healing in pvp? No. The reason we are over represented in pvp healing is the versatility of ret. Something that, to be honest, is not being addressed in 3.1. Hybrids will be as prevalent as ever for one single goddamn reason that I am trying to beat into your heads:
Deep holy sucks for pvp. (not all talents, but most)