Infraction for Buentoe: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.

• Vulajin · 04/08/09, 5:23 PM

Post: In-Depth Arms DPS Discussion
User: Buentoe
Infraction: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Your post reads like shit because of the excessive quote-splitting. Don't do that in the future.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by Rallik

I think five things are wrong with the napkin math:
1) Assumption of only 20% white damage is a low estimate. I think it's closer to 24%, which will increase haste's value 20% over your estimation.

On a boss fight, especially a stationary one, if your white damage is 24% that just means you are not filling in all your global cooldowns properly which could be due to rage starvation or just general laziness/slowness hitting your buttons buttons. I have never had my white damage that high whether with crappy blues early on or the close to BiS i have now.

2) Not including haste's impact on deep wounds damage is a huge mistake. About 27% of haste's value comes from additional DW procs. 1/(1-.27) shows that including this would increase your estimate of haste's value by 37%.

Deeps wounds should be up 100% of the time with or without any haste. If you see it fall off now you have bad RNG and one extra white hit every half minute isn't going to increase your chances of keeping DWs up much against the other 25 hits (or whatever it is) you got in that time. When 3.1 comes out you have a overpower every six seconds which pretty guarantees DWs always being up even if you don't have 50% raid buffed crit.

3) Haste's loss of value due to slam is being overestimated. Slam is only used about once every 8.75s by my sim's estimate. This might seem like a longer delay than you'd expect, but Slam isn't used during execute range, which raises its average time between uses quite a bit. (.5/8.75) = 5.7% loss of value due to slam cast times, a far cry from 15%, which is just absurd and implies you're using Slam every 3.3s, or about every other GCD the entire fight.

I agree its loss of value is overestimated in this case (doesn't mean haste still is not garbage). Slams however can be very well used in execute range. If MS/OP/rend is not ready and you do not have a SD proc you could use slam. Using execute too early can leave you waiting for your next white hit. Your rotation should stay almost the same in execute range but you can time in extra executes if you know a white hit is going to come before your next GCD is ready.

4) It fails to take into account increased execute damage. Faster swings will certainly increase damage in execute range through increased rage generation/shorter delays between hits and is about 10% of haste's value(11% increase over the estimate)

As i somewhat said above, execute spam is not the best dps.

5) Strength has 0 effect on proc uptimes, while haste will increase Greatness/MoT/T8 2pc/Zerk uptimes by a small amount each. This is probably its weakest impact, resulting in about a 1% increase in value.

Strength however can have an effect on how much damage a proc adds (procs that add crit or armor penetration rating for example). With internal cooldowns and just thinking about how many hits we average per second, haste's effect on procs is negligible.

Haste is still bad compared to strength, but it's certainly not 1/4 of its value. It comes out to .5-.55 SEP by my simulations, which seems perfectly reasonable.

Just practice in raid, simulations just tell us what kind of damage they think we should be doing. They can average out how many procs we will get on average but for an arms warrior it is more important what order our abilities proc. A sim cannot predict this and it has a major impact on our dps. I personally hate sims; they can't really help me be a better raider or dpser because most things need to be figured out in raid as every fight is different. I really don't care how much damage I can do on a dummy.