Infraction for clemroh: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.

• Chicken · 07/06/09, 10:05 AM

Post: The Frostfire Bolt thread (updated 3.1)
User: clemroh
Infraction: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Please avoid splitting people's quotes into multiple parts, and try not to include unneeded quotations as well, people would've understood things just as well here if you'd only quoted one of the two posters since both of them are saying the same things.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by testthewest

Yes for Mimiron. I only completed his hard mode on 10man difficulty, but even there it gets hectic sometimes in p4. If the fires go bad or the tank has to pull out, it simply good to have more range.

Originally Posted by Hilbs

Range on Mimiron can most certainly become an issue in phase 4 as you may at time be cut off by rockets, fire, a frost bomb, or a spin up.

Having personally only experienced phase 3 of firefighter, I cannot agree nor disagree with either of you here. Though I can tell you that having the extra range in any of the other 3 phases is not necessary at all. (And even less necessary in any of the easymode phases, with the obvious reason being 'easymode'.)

Originally Posted by testthewest

Yes for Freya, since Eonars Gifts sometimes spawn far away from the raid.

Originally Posted by Hilbs

It can help you get to trees and/or roots on hard mode freya that would otherwise not be within your range.

Yeah, the gifts are very often out of range (usually more than a simple 6 yards), but Phase1 of Freya isn't mana intensive at all and blinking to a tree shouldn't be an issue at all. However, I will agree that when the Conservator is up, that extra range could prove to be beneficial in those cases where the gift is further than 30 yards away from the closest mushroom.

As for the roots, unless for some reason your group is spread out across the entire zone, there's no reason why you shouldn't be in range of AT LEAST one iron root, at which point by the time one iron root goes down, the other will have gone down before you would have been able to finish a cast anyway.

Originally Posted by testthewest

And most definitly yes for Yogg-Saron. P1 it is nice, but in p2 it really shines. Less movement is more dps. I definitly can start casting earlier, if I get into striking range faster. If you move in a circle, because of spawn luck (or unluck?), this might be true, but as soon as getting to the next Crusher means turning around, the mage without range will run 12yards extra. Furthermore, more range means higher chance that the next target is range, so you don't have to move.

Originally Posted by Hilbs

How about the phase 3 to 4 transition on One light in the Darkness when you have a few corruptor's still up and you want to be with your raid so you don't get gibbed by incoming immortal guardians.

It has virtually no benefit in Phase1 as getting extra casts off as the mob is being pulled to the center simply risks prematurely killing the mob. And for those that don't pull the mob to the center, you'll be within 30 yards range anyway.

As I previously stated, the only period where I could see flame throwing to be most beneficial IS in this phase HOWEVER I believe that users of Flame Throwing overestimate this benefit as a large fraction of this phase involves you running around anyway, not to mention that if the next mob is in front of you and not behind you, you would have to run the 6 yards that you 'saved' anyway. Yes, if it's behind you, you would technically run ~12 yards less (assuming no blinking during this encounter) however when you're running around for ~200 yards (vague estimate), an 'extra' 12 yards really doesn't make much of a dent.

Now you mention the transition from phase 3 to phase 4... however to my knowledge there is no phase 4, so I'm going to assume you meant the transition from phase 2 to phase 3. A rhetorical question: if you're trying to stay with your raid, and your raid is in range (usually 30 yards), why WOULDN'T you be in range?

Originally Posted by Hilbs

How about on hodir when you just came out of a flash freeze, one of the important NPCS is pinned up against a wall, and you still want to be in that moonlight in toasty-fire range so once you break the NPC out you can get right back on the boss.

If you have NPCs out of range of the raid, you're doing it wrong. And if you're in a toasty fire, then you shouldn't need to be breaking out the mage. I'll agree that the six yards COULD prove beneficial because, yes, sometimes the NPC is JUST over 30 yards away, but there's 2 NPCs you should be aiming for and odds are if one's not in range (whether over 30 or over 36 yards away) the other one will be.

Originally Posted by Hilbs

Also, no one really cares about easy mode bosses, you could walk in there wiith RP gear on with any talent points you want and kill it, that's why it's easy mode. The only bosses that you have any sort of point on would be Thorim and Vezax, and I'm usually frost for hard mode Vezax and I could argue that flame throwing could increase your dps while in the tunnel, as well as the times that you need to move behind other groups to dodge wall lightning.

The reason why I posted easy mode bosses was simply to illustrate its value throughout Ulduar. Yes, the easymode bosses can be done blindfolded with one arm tied behind your back, but they're still part of Ulduar so I figured I'd list them anyway. Also, if you're going to state that "easy" encounters don't matter, then whether or not 6 yards is beneficial in Hallway is really a non-issue as the hard part isn't initiating hard mode. Also I can assure you that you ARE within 30 yards of Thorim even while dodging the wall lightning.

Perhaps I was too one-sided in my original reply to make +3/6 yards seem completely useless, however I believe that the DPS gain from SotM or even the survivability from Magic Absorption to be more beneficial because a set DPS increase is much more useful than the highly variable Flame Throwing, with, as can be seen, is only up for debate on three encounters in all of Ulduar. And as for Magic Absorption, a dead DPS is 0 DPS. (However, again, only applying to a handful of encounters...)