Infraction for SubtleAmbition: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.

• Vykromond · 10/28/09, 3:59 PM

Post: World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS]
User: SubtleAmbition
Infraction: 2. All opinions should be stated as succinctly as possible.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

That's funny. The main person I see around here "screeching" is you. Quote-splitting, too!

Original Post:

/sigh

1) Fordring was exiled from the Alliance nation of Lordaeron for years because he rescued an orc from unjust imprisonment. He returned to lead the Argent Dawn, one of the major remanents of Lordaeron after the Third War. (With the Scarlet Crusade being the other.)

Orcish imprisonment was not unjust. The race had just very nearly committed genocide against every race on Azeroth. Imprisonment was an immense mercy on the part of King Terenas that resulted in the fracturing of the Alliance. Gilneas outright said fuck you, I'm building a wall and leaving you lot to your own devices. You are right about the Argent Dawn being a major remnant of Lordaeron, though. However, I'm not quite sure why you mention that specifically.

2) Dalaran was obliterated by Archimonde. It was never part of the modern Alliance. The Alliance that used to include the key nations of Stromgarde, Kul Tiras, Alterac, Greymane, Lordaeron, Dalaran, and Stormwind no longer includes most of those nations. It's not the Alliance of WCII or WCIII. Rhonin deciding that he has bigger fish to fry in Northrend is very much like him.

I said Alliance-aligned. They were not a member nation of the alliance, and haven't been for some time, but they were on friendly relations for trade and interaction, whereas the Horde's only interaction with them was to kill them. For dubious-at-best reasons. Rhonin is also a horrible self-insert mary sue character on the part of Knaak, invincible without any real flaws. He is also inexplicably (literally, there is no explanation anywhere in the canon writings) the leader of the magocracy which reviled him as a renegade and a reckless fool in the very works that introduced him.

3) Khadgar is the same way. He was an Alliance champion but his encounters with the Naaru made him decide that there were bigger fish to fry. Danath Trollbane is still an Alliance hero and Khadgar doesn't really DO much of anything. Keep in mind that he's working with the Naaru who explicitly allowed the Scryer faction to have a home in Shattrath.

I really fail to see how this has anything to do with refuting what I said. Alliance hero, turned neutral. The Naaru were pulled out of an idea hat at the start of Burning Crusade, they weren't even in the WoW launch lore. It's a case of using alliance characters to further a neutral story and having the alliance faction play nice throughout the quest lore, while having the horde snigger and backstab and keep all of it's characters (or have them killed because they turned renegade, which sucks just as much for you guys as losing chars to neutrality does for alliance, if not moreso).

4) Brann never really became a neutral hero. There are quests in Grizzly Hills to try to capture the dude if you play Horde. He leads the expedition into Ulduar along with some of the Kirin Tor, with whom we are working no matter which side we play on. Nevertheless the Alliance gets a lot more Brann than the Horde does and in a different fashion.

You're doing a very good job of proving my point now. Brann was an alliance launch hero, he's a dwarf, even in the LK expansion you hunt him and are hostile.. yet he mysteriously turns friendly in time for the horde to be included in the Titan/Ulduar/Storm Peaks questlines. No "Hey, didn't I see you killing a bunch of Explorer's League in Grizzly Hills?" or "Didn't you try to kill me?". Just "well, you stole a dwarf comm device, so HELP MEH!"

Alliance characters have not always chosen 'The Greater Good' because if they had done that then there wouldn't been WoTLK or BC to begin with. Whose insane racism drove Kael'thas to Illidan? Which former Alliance Paladin now sits on the Frozen Throne? Which Alliance character brought the horde and Legion to Azeroth in the first place?

The only peaceful Alliance character is Jaina and I honestly expect her and Thrall to be out of the picture in Cataclysm.

Why that would be Garithos, of course. A former general of Lordaeron. Now represented in game by the Forsaken.

Same with Arthas.

As for the third, I'm guessing you mean Medivh? The Guardian that was possessed, through no fault of his own, by Sargeras?

I also love that you are cherry picking around the fact that Medivh's great sin was to inflict the Horde, meaning the ORCS, on Azeroth.

So you'll try, lamely, to condemn a faction because of the action of a handful of people (who actually more represent one of the facets of the current horde) while dismissing the entire Horde's (barring the Tauren's) past out of hand "because they were high" or other questionably mitigating circumstances?

I wonder if a mod could delete some of these posts, including my own past the points I made discussing Sunwalkers. It seems you can't even mention any disparity between the Horde and Alliance without fanboys and ignorant apologists coming out of the woodwork to screech at you.