Warning for kharen: 1. All posters are to make an effort to communicate clearly.

• Narcosleepy · 04/29/10, 4:43 PM

Post: Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements
User: kharen
Infraction: 1. All posters are to make an effort to communicate clearly.
Points: 0

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

The first person pronoun I is always capitalized in English no matter where it occurs in the sentence. You entire last paragraph isn't saying anything that everyone else has said in this thread 100 times already.

Original Post:

Originally Posted by Calixtus

I can't say I see the problem. Poor itemization is poor itemization, and it's a real problem. If fixing that problem results in loot being "boring" we're right back to player psychology. If getting loot that looks the same but has slightly lower stats than loot in a raid you have no desire to do, when you do content in which you have no need for the increased stats that offers is a problem, then that problem has clearly stopped being about actual in-game advantages and is instead an emotional reaction. And we're back to an issue you can't defeat with design.

Except the problem isn't "looks the same but slightly lower stats", it's that currently too much of the loot in 10 man is entirely worthless (see: ToC10 trinkets) or completely non-existent (see: too many examples to name).

I'd be perfectly happy if 10m loot was exactly like 25m loot, but slightly lower in stats (equivalent to the normal/heroic items we have now), as long as all the same (scaled down) items dropped (in fact, i've suggested this in the past, when i didn't think they'd give up the "better loot" carrot for 25s), and the raids were properly balanced around it. As long as i'm getting regular upgrades and killing new bosses, i don't really give a damn what people in other guilds/raids/etc get. But i'm sick to death of waiting three fucking tiers to upgrade a given slot because there either aren't any upgrades, or the "upgrades" are completely useless - for a while, i was raiding ICC with a DMC:G and Mirror of Truth, because all the trinkets that are actually available to me were either drenched in easily capped stats like hit/expertise (Pyrite Infuser, the ToC10 exp trinket, the triumph badge trinket), or dropped from bosses that we very rarely had time to kill (Dark Matter). I only replaced Greatness when i got the frost badge trinket (to go with a Whispering Fanged Skull that had replaced the Mirror).

But if you're making all the loot the same but scaled down, you have to ask yourself - why is the 25m loot better anyway? Do you really need to give people a carrot in order to do the larger raids, and if so, what does that say about how fun 25s are? That (or something like that) seems to have been the thought process at Blizzard, with the end result being that they've decided that they don't need to make 10 mans second-class after all, and that the players can decide for themselves how they'd rather raid.