Me and a friend (Hunter - Marks and Warlock - Demonology) have got a respectable 1.7k rating in 2v2. Our gear is laughably poor for PvP - I'm on just over 8k hp with one Gladiator piece and no other PvP gear and my friend is on just under 11k with on Gladiator piece and some other assorted PvP gear. In a nutshell, we generally beat anyone without a healer. Our burst is pretty phenomenal - I've got the ZG trinket, over just under 2000RAP and a healthy crit rate, however, we just seem too squishy.
Generally we find any Warrior + healer combination difficult. We only seem to have a chance if we survive the Warrior's Deathwish and bate a zerker rage with a fake fear cast. Standard procedure for us is freeze trap warrior if healer is a Druid, if not forget it. We use Curse of Weakness the Warrior and kite him, while DoTing and CoT is on the healer. Usually the warrior blows Deathwish right at the start so if we can survive that we're laughing. Any healer that isn't a paladin goes down very quickly. Warlock DoTs plus a Hunter's direct damage are lethal. We fear the warrior and go nuts on the healer. If we don't kill them before fear breaks it's game over.
That seems to be the crux - if we can survive the initial Deathwish onslaught, we have about 15 seconds if fear lasts the full duration to give the healer the taste of steel. This has only worked a couple of times for us, and really seems to limiting our progress; an increasing amount of teams from 1.7k+ have a warrior which is making it tough to progress. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
How do you live as Marks without a healer? I've found it incredibly difficult in 3v3's even, because you're basically always the first player to be focus fired once the opposing team realizes you're a hunter with no support and no TBW.
What helped us against fighting pallies(hunter, mage, lock) and might apply to your 2v2, is we'd bait the pally to heal, spell lock the paladin's holy tree, then kill the paladin b/c now he can't bubble.
I usually play line of sight games around the pillar with a trap underneath me (Nagrand) or get on the pillar with a frost trap before it (Blade's Edge). This makes me fairly difficult for melee to reach - I've only seen a sprinting rogue/druid or a mage with blink manage it in Blade's Edge. Deterrence makes me pretty much melee immune for 10 seconds too. I'm not gonna lie, if I get caught in the open and focussed by a warrior I go down like a sack of shit, but I like to think that will rarely happen. Being bursted isn't our problem - being outlasted is.
Hmm... has your warlock considered going affliction? Or is he usually focused first? If he has 3k more hp than you, and probably more resilience, and death coil etc., it seems like most teams would focus you down first, leaving him the ability to drop a bit of survivability. Instant howl of terror would be useful, but UA even more so against paladins(they can't HoT a target, so they're going to have to heal through everything if you have UA up). Also, what pet is your warlock using?
He's still messing about with specs but I'll suggest giving affliction a try. Thing is, most of the time he's focused first. He always runs in while I line of sight nuke from max range. I agree instant fear would be a boon, especially for our "run and cause chaos" strat. UA seems a great counter for paladins too as it essentially prevents DoTs being dispelled. Also, don't you get instant corruption too?
Regarding pets he's using a Felguard at the moment, however I like the utility a Felhunter brings, particularly Spell Lock. I'll suggest this to him. Are there any other ways in which a Felhunter might be better than a Felguard?
He's still messing about with specs but I'll suggest giving affliction a try. Thing is, most of the time he's focused first. He always runs in while I line of sight nuke from max range. I agree instant fear would be a boon, especially for our "run and cause chaos" strat. UA seems a great counter for paladins too as it essentially prevents DoTs being dispelled. Also, don't you get instant corruption too?
Regarding pets he's using a Felguard at the moment, however I like the utility a Felhunter brings, particularly Spell Lock. I'll suggest this to him. Are there any other ways in which a Felhunter might be better than a Felguard?
Yeah, instant corruption of course. I'd suggest felhunter over felguard too btw. It can lock out the paladin's holy tree preventing heals for awhile, so that's very handy. A felguard's just a short stun and added dps(which you apparently are ok on already). Additionally, smart teams will usually focus down a felhunter early, since it dies relatively easily. If your lock stays demo, he can summon another instantly(99% sure on this, but could be wrong) and then they've just wasted valuable time at the start of the fight. If he specs affliction, that's one thing he'll have to watch out for.
But yeah, if he's targetted first, then losing SL will hurt.
get on the pillar with a frost trap before it (Blade's Edge). This makes me fairly difficult for melee to reach - I've only seen a sprinting rogue/druid or a mage with blink manage it in Blade's Edge.
This is *extremely* effective against melee. Essentially, if this is down, my only option is to wait out the trap, and hope I don't die in the process.
This is *extremely* effective against melee. Essentially, if this is down, my only option is to wait out the trap, and hope I don't die in the process.
Yes, the only counter I'm aware of is Cloak of Shadow + sprint. Having said that, does CoS make you immune to Frost Trap?
Yes, the only counter I'm aware of is Cloak of Shadow + sprint. Having said that, does CoS make you immune to Frost Trap?
Yes but the problem is flare. A rogue could just run in with CoS on and jump across normally since the trap wont be set off, the worst that could happen is you get a scatter shot but its mostly dependant on latency if you assume a high level of skill from both opponents.
with 300 resilience, 12k HP (15k with healthstone) and soullink they are beasts
the same time, their (900+ spell)damage isn't affected by resilience at all
curse of tongues and felhunter shut a healer pretty much down
deathcoil, fear... this is just... too much
i'm really obsessed right now, since we fought a healshaman/sl-warlock team and did actually stand no chance. i just can't get an idea how we could win, it seems pretty much impossible.
focussing the warlock results in me dying from dots after 5 minutes. besides hots my priest won't cast anything against CoT + felhunter + earthshock, while the shaman can keep the lock alive.
killing the shaman won't happen, you all know how long earthshield shamans last. coupled with some well-timed fears to get a heal out... just no
me and my friend have realy big problems with 2x rogues. our rating is 1835 atm
we are warlock and Priest. I'm 24/37/0 and he is Shadow
the game starts like this :
one rogue saps my friend then they come both on me I deathcoil dots ...
even before my friend get out sap they blind him and when the blind runs out the 2nd rogue reblind him
I've tried to kite them with CoEX even used tidal charm i just can't stop them.
any ideas how to handle that setup ?
me and my friend have realy big problems with 2x rogues. our rating is 1835 atm
we are warlock and Priest. I'm 24/37/0 and he is Shadow
the game starts like this :
one rogue saps my friend then they come both on me I deathcoil dots ...
even before my friend get out sap they blind him and when the blind runs out the 2nd rogue reblind him
I've tried to kite them with CoEX even used tidal charm i just can't stop them.
any ideas how to handle that setup ?
Rogues are the bane of priest/lock teams, your only hope is to outlast blind/sap with superior hp/resilience. It would be easier with a non-shadow priest, you need every bit of healing you can get to outlast sap/blind/blind. Human lock/dwarf priest teams have it easy though =\ perception/stoneform ftw
To the guy facing Shaman/Lock, dont dismiss going on Shaman, its the best idea, Sl means little pressure healing for the shaman so just kill him, get your priest to manaburn and you win, it is a pretty easy combo.
the priest won't ever be able to manaburn the shaman.
CoT + felhunter/spellock + earthshock is too much interrupt. There is no LoS in this match, since manadrain is a channelingspell, unlike manaburn.
If you focus the shaman, the warlock will fear you around and manadrain/interrupt the priest. No manaburn here as well.
you just can't leave a warlock untouched.
Well I'm fully aware of the issues but maybe your priest just needs more practice.
If you can't deal with going on Shaman then make your play between Mindnumbing and Wound, rushdown the lock, force the shaman to heal. Just keep your priest WELL away from the lock, that way he cant drain mana and if your on the lock he cant catch him due to crippling, if the shaman consistently removes crippling, your not doing enough damage. Key is to pressure, this combo is sub-par to dwarf-priest/lock which can easily dominate in 2v2.
How is the warlock managing to drain mana your priest?
I dunno about other locks but i pretty much cant do shit besides instant casts when a rogue is on me. Stuns plus kick ontop of normal spell pushback should be enough to stop drain mana channeling.
Is there any tips to beat the typical Warlock/Priest Warlock/Warlock teams as a Paladin/War team? Our rating is pretty respectable, 2055 currently, but past that we peak out as just about all the top teams are setup like that. Other than substituting my MS War partner for say, a Rogue, is there anything else we could do? Grab some SR maybe?
Its quite frustrating to try and heal through UA and a ton of dots with a Felhunter out who's silence is pretty much impossible to fake out. Assuming I'm not feared, about all I can hope to do is HoJ the felhunter to get one maybe one heal or DS (which only lasts so long, and usually isn't enough time to kill a warlock in the duration with how much resilience/hp they tend to have), after which I'm extremely vulnerable to spell lock/fear, lasting up to 10 seconds on initial cast at times, which is ample time to chew through a fair chunk of someone's hitpoints. We've tried killing the Felhunter and that works sometimes if they aren't paying attention to their pets health and let it loose to start, but if their SL its just a huge waste of time.
It just strikes me as a little crazy how much damage they can mitigate with resilience if specced/geared properly, all while their own damage (DoTs) are completely unmitigable. Yes, theres resist gear as an option but unlike the arena gear with resilience, stacking resistance would hurt your already stymied damage/healing output quite a bit. I'm looking for a counter-team (with a paladin) that would be able to have a fighting chance against such teams and what experiences others may have had with putting together a good anti-team. Rogue/Paladin perhaps?
Is there any tips to beat the typical Warlock/Priest Warlock/Warlock teams as a Paladin/War team? Our rating is pretty respectable, 2055 currently, but past that we peak out as just about all the top teams are setup like that. Other than substituting my MS War partner for say, a Rogue, is there anything else we could do? Grab some SR maybe?
I'm part of a Warlock/Paladin 2v2.
I'm SL specc'd and with a Felhunter out, + 3 SR items (cloak, neck, helm) + SR aura, I'm at 210 SR.
My Paladin partner wears about 150ish total with her aura included for this matchup.
It's enough to run the shadow Priest OOM. Basically your goal should be to keep the Warrior on that UA Warlock at all times. Stick to his ass like glue. Also, keep Hamstring on both of them if possible. Well timed Intercepts help a ton. Basically your goal is to get rid of their UA Warlock A S A P. At some point, the Priest may even drop Shadowform early in desperation to heal. At this point, you've pretty much already won.
Most of these teams pray that they can get one person down in the first 15-20 seconds. They ride in mounted, blow AOE fear and start spamming DOTs. Just outlast them and keep in mind their entire DPS is shadow damage. So it doesn't matter one bit if your Paladin is wearing cloth SR gear. Anything to put up a respectable number which allows you to bubble later.
How is the warlock managing to drain mana your priest?
I dunno about other locks but i pretty much cant do shit besides instant casts when a rogue is on me. Stuns plus kick ontop of normal spell pushback should be enough to stop drain mana channeling.
Earthshield would get the warlock to 100% resistance to normal spell push back when combind with fel concentration. Doesn't stop a rogue gouging stunning kicking though, or the priest removing earthshield.
I'm SL specc'd and with a Felhunter out, + 3 SR items (cloak, neck, helm) + SR aura, I'm at 210 SR.
My Paladin partner wears about 150ish total with her aura included for this matchup.
It's enough to run the shadow Priest OOM. Basically your goal should be to keep the Warrior on that UA Warlock at all times. Stick to his ass like glue. Also, keep Hamstring on both of them if possible. Well timed Intercepts help a ton. Basically your goal is to get rid of their UA Warlock A S A P. At some point, the Priest may even drop Shadowform early in desperation to heal. At this point, you've pretty much already won.
Most of these teams pray that they can get one person down in the first 15-20 seconds. They ride in mounted, blow AOE fear and start spamming DOTs. Just outlast them and keep in mind their entire DPS is shadow damage. So it doesn't matter one bit if your Paladin is wearing cloth SR gear. Anything to put up a respectable number which allows you to bubble later.
This would work well against the Shd Priest/Lock combo, I would add war/pal doesn't need to go charging in crazy fast, sit back see whos coming and have a SR set ready to switch to, 150ish + SR aura will cut alot of incomming damage, just don't too crazy and loose too much good gear.
Kinz - why not completely stack SR? If you're facing a Shadow/UA or Shadow/SL team, *everything* they do is shadow (well, aside from mana burn and mass dispel, but if you can make a shadow priest do that you're well on the path to winning), so I fail to see the disadvantages of working on a SR set right up to 365 SR (or 295 unbuffed). True you lose resilience, but they're not critting anyway.
Kinz - why not completely stack SR? If you're facing a Shadow/UA or Shadow/SL team, *everything* they do is shadow (well, aside from mana burn and mass dispel, but if you can make a shadow priest do that you're well on the path to winning), so I fail to see the disadvantages of working on a SR set right up to 365 SR (or 295 unbuffed). True you lose resilience, but they're not critting anyway.
Mana Burn is Shadow based as well, though I'm unsure whether Shadow Resist has any noticeable effect on the mana reduction part of it.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
Ok, so me and Warlock friend got ourselves to 1750...then promptly lost over 100 points as we faced the same Warrior + Paladin combo over, and over, and over again. We've got every other Warrior + healer combo sorted now, but we just have no counter to a Deep Thunder warrior and a competent Paladin. It seems to me that we have to force the paladin bubble, outlast it, then kill the paladin, but this is simply impossible; the Warrior kills us both before we can make any dent in the paladin's HP. I feel if we can start nuking the paladin we can win; spell lock, silencing shot and scatter shot mean we can effectively kill any healing class very quickly.
Do we simply need more HP? Or is there something I'm missing?
05/13/07, 7:17 AM
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