Ragnor

I'm finding the healer/rogue (my team) vs healer/warrior matchup pretty tough, gg blacksmith weapons. If you attack the warrior you're giving him free rage to destroy you with as soon as he's unstunlocked and any competent healer can heal the warrior up. If we focus the healer it can be a real challenge keeping him alive long enough in an endurance style battle even with my rogue partners 10k hp.

Typically in a 2-3min fight you'll see the warrior do 50-60k damage to your team and your rogue do about 25k to their team. Their healer is only having to heal 30k ish and I'm healing 50k and finally going oom.

It seems to just be a large damage gap because of the 2h smith weapons. 2500 MS hits (non crit) on 10k AC is balanced?

Hopefully next patch with the rogue changes (imp sap base etc), my buddy can drop alot of the subtlety talents for dps oriented talents and the other changes should bring his single target damage up quite a bit.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

drole

i find bladeflurry+adrenaline rush the only thing that combo is just remotely vulnerable to.

 

XI-

As balanced as 150 DPS weapons I'd assume.

 

Iniliara

I hear that Priest/Rogue may also pose some difficulty for your duo .

I've found the same with healer/warrior teams, though in my case it's more a case of the warriors going straight for me and shutting down my self-healing with MS. There's only so much a priest can do versus said 2500 MS hits. Attempting to fully stun-lock the Warrior while I mana burn down their healer's worked a few times, but it's still pretty risky, and there's usually not enough time during said stun-lock to burn down most Paladins before the Warrior starts beating on me again.

 

MatsT

That is about as balanced as your holy shocks hitting me for OVER NINE THOUSAND!!!!!111

 

Bibdy

I have about 1k armour and I've never seen an MS hit me that hard.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

 

MatsT

Not abused it, but if you had battleshout up until you went down to 1500 hp you would get healed to 2800, which was quite useful.

Wouldn't it be quite important when playing vs teams like warrior+nonpaladin healer or holy priest+caster, or do you consider these matchups so much a walkover that you would still win easily?

There aren't many double mage teams running around, and the ones we've faced so far haven't been very good at timing their PoM's etc to be a problem. What causes problems for us are warlock+mage and warlock+shadowpriest. Basically, whenever the paladin tries to heal he will be counterspelled for 10 seconds or possibly spell locked for 8 seconds. Spell reflect haven't been enough to keep me up until he can heal again. And even if he got out of it, they would still have the one they didn't use ready if he tried to heal again.

What we do right now is pretty much shield straight our and spam holy lights. Problem is i seldom manage to get either of them down before divine shield runs out and he yet again gets counterspelled for 10 seconds and stand watch as i die. If you have any tips i would appreciate it. Are you playing defstance+shield all the way through or just switch back and forth?

 

Iniliara

Likewise; it's probably just a slight over-exageration on Ragnor's part. Either way, it's still fairly difficult to heal through the damage of a geared MS warrior that's beating on me. The best chance we've got vs Warrior/Healer as a Rogue/Priest is if the Warrior goes for the rogue first; keeping a rogue up through MS is somewhat hard, but far from impossible.

 

Sashia

Well my 2v2 team with a warrior has 2k+ rating and we usually target the locks first to help interrupt fears on the paladin(unless theres a shadow priest then we target him instead). Its very important for the warrior to be geared to kill as fast as possible because like you said, against a warlock and mage team the healer will be practically CCed and useless the whole match. My warrior partner usually charges the lock first and dpses him down, which i cast maybe a few flash of lights and holy shock to buy a few seconds before a big heal is needed.

Its also important for the paladin to bubble at the absolutely last second possible to buy time for the warrior to burst one down before bubble is over. LGG on the warrior is a must if you have it, before the next patch comes. Abusing LOS around pillars and stuff helps a lot in certain fights. The paladin should be 41/20 spec as well for that small chance to resist spell interrupts.

 

Ragnor

Haha yeah I was yelling at Nightblade to GO FOR THE PRIEST not the rogue, zomg he's mana burning me HALP! Start in shadow more often like the first game imo so we can drop you in 5sec!

Someone was doubting 2000+ ms hits were possible, uh do you even play arena? I didn't take any screenshots yesterday but 2000-2500 ms hits on 10-12k ac while I had imp righteous fury (-6% damage) up were not uncommon from a particular warrior/shaman team we faced yesterday. Is he using a macro for deathwish and two ap trinkets, probably was he enraged nope neither of us hit him at all in the matches I'm talking about other than to hoj/blind and run away.

Either way we were having a crap night, we lost about 100 rating but we had to get some games in this because neither of us had been online much. The Australian peak time strange blackrock lag spikes were fun too Hopefully rested and relaxed with no lag we can claw back some rating tonight before the arena week rolls over.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

Quixotic

The ONLY time I will turn on my felhunter on auto cast is against druids/shaman that I know have no buffs on. Even with a macro, auto devour will dispel NS about 75%+ of the time, in my experience. Otherwise it's invaluable to remove sheep/fear from your healers.

 

Iniliara

Shadow? I'm holy baby!

 

obsolete

yeh i think ill start to manually control it. i have always had to macros written to do it but somehow never really got into the habit of manually controlling it.


on a side note, is engineering worth picking up for 2v2?
last night me and my mage partner got beaten by a mirror combo, both of whom had frost and shadow reflectors. They'd essentially rush us, CC my mage partner, pop their reflectors, and offload on me. i essentially got burnt down to around 10-20% everytime before their reflectors wore off. couldnt spelllock or deathcoil because of the reflectors and 2 of them + their 2 pets offloading on me meant a 1.5sec fear attempt would turn into a 5sec+ cast so i didnt even bother trying that.
my mage partner couldnt do anything because they co-ordinated their imp counterspell and spelllock on him, then poly+fear (during the initial zerg).
we did manage to beat them twice (lost about 4 however) when they obviously didnt get as many crits, and i managed to spelllock one of them after reflectors wore off, and deathcoil the other, plus HS etc. But this was more luck then anything else.

so yeah, i have been thinking of dropping enchanting to pickup engineering simply for the reflectors to counter zerg teams such as this. Im thinking that 5sec reflection of shadow+frost would be enough time for me to survive before my mage breaks out of their CC to put us on a level playing field.

Im not sure, your opinions would be appreciated. especially anyone who has/uses reflectors and can comment on their reliability/worth in 2v2 arena.

 

diotox

Yeah I play quite a bit of arena, and you're trying to tell us that a warrior is hitting a paladin for 2500 with MS? Hell I'd be pretty pleased with a 2500 CRIT on a paladin. I'd buy a 2500 hit on a 0 armor target under the right circumstances (read: enrage, deathwish, bloodfury, trinket, maybe throw in hourglass proc). But as it stands you're telling us he's hitting you for 2500 with just deathwish and a trinket up, I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. Even if he hit MS at the same time as a windfury went off so he had the extra AP added to the MS, I don't even see that happening.

 

• frmorrison

Is this a joke? Reflectors last for 5 seconds with a long cooldown and should fizzle.

Get Witchhunt (says when people use items) and if they do, just don't attack for 5 seconds. If you are worrying about resists, make sure you have 20 spell pen to cloak as well as your buddy (PvP Mages should get an additional 10 spell pen from Arcane).


Anyway, if they don't fizzle that much and you think they are useful, how would you know when to use the Reflector trinkets?

 

• Symbul

I do play arena and Warriors do not clear 2k hits on plate. Don't even try.

As for 2v2 gameplay I've found that Melee+Paladin at least, if not Melee+Healer in general are dominated by Warriors' MS and armor superiority, to say nothing of simply doing more dps up front. With an offensive dispeller to force early Immune burns a Sap can turn it I suppose.

 

obsolete

Well they werent fizzling very often (if at all) in the games we played them.
And it basically meant both were essentially immune to both of us for 5sec.

also simply "not attacking" for 5sec in 2v2 with 2 people zerging you is pretty much gg without a healer in your makeup.

also resists have nothing to do with it, doesnt matter how much spell penetration you have if the reflectors dont fizzle.

well they zerg me at the start, so obviously then ;-)

also, excluding zergs, u can use enemy cast bars and see (for example) when a mage is about to fire a frostbolt at you.

 

Shik

Heh. My paladin friend and I did some dueling the other night to test out tactics. With 2200 AP and a Deep Thunder I will hit an 11k armor pally for 550-700dmg or so on average.

I'm curious about how other warrior/pally teams duel with heavy casters, especially lock/x and ap-mage/dps. I'm trying to figure out how to work spell reflect into my game, but doing so shuts down our entire offence. I ran into 6 consecutive warlock/x teams the other night, capped by a double warlock team.... really not the most fun time I've had.

 

drole

keyword(s): fake healing

 

Latham

Unless this warrior has some 2h we all dont know about he isn't hitting ms on plate for 2500 non crit. We take enough heat for mortal strike we dont need exaggerations.

 

• Snowy

I just caught this. Gross exaggeration isn't going to help your case, I've never been hit for anywhere near 2500 non-crit as a cloth-wearer.

 

• Karakas

Fake healing isn't as useful as people make it out to be. First, a good mage/warlock/rogue/whatever won't interrupt your heal until it's within the last 0.5 seconds, so you have to fake for enough time to make them thing it's real. Second, if you fake and they don't fall for it, that's effectively a 2-2.5 second silence, and they still have CS/Spell Lock up. Given that neither CS nor Spell Lock affect the GCDs of the caster him/herself, you're looking at giving a caster team too much time to DPS the other person down.

 

DiscW