Right now I'm playing disc priest with marksman hunter and we lose versus most rogue/healer comps (rogue/druid being the easiest). The problem is the healer can dispel icecube traps, and anything the hunter does to kite is fairly useless because I can't dispel crippling and rogues have so much mobility. So the rogue is doing way more damage than my hunter and plus he has the mortal strike effect of wound poisons. I am forced into healing mode while the other healer is largely free to do whatever their class is good at and its just all rubbish frustration.
Does anyone have any ideas on what we can do? Versus any other comp we can come up with at least decent ideas even if we suck too much to implement them perfectly.
You want to land Silencing Shot->Psychic Scream on the Priest followed by Wing Clip->Scatter Shot->Freezing Trap on the Rogue, then disengage to drink/heal. Repeat ad nauseam and let Viper Sting win the match. The Priest concentrates on drinking and keeping everybody (including the pet) topped off; the Hunter concentrates on keeping himself and his pet alive and focus-Viper Sting/Concussive Shot on the Priest. Every last scrap of time the Priest has needs to go toward setting up drinks and topping everybody off.
Im looking for some advice on my 2v2 team rogue/priest. last season we hit 1800 and this season we are just doing bad nad i cant figure out why?? I think its because that my partners weapons are not on par with this seasons players and gear. Does anyone have advice on the best way to run this team it would be very apreciated thanx.
Im looking for some advice on my 2v2 team rogue/priest. last season we hit 1800 and this season we are just doing bad nad i cant figure out why?? I think its because that my partners weapons are not on par with this seasons players and gear. Does anyone have advice on the best way to run this team it would be very apreciated thanx.
There's a lot of advice on general priest/rogue strats here already. For more specific advice we'd need more information on the teams that are giving you trouble, what you are doing, what they do back, how you lose, etc. In general the problem isn't gear, if you have at least s2 or equivalent gear you should be able to get up to 1700-1800's now. Better gear helps but usually good strats and play skill will make up for that.
Having a pretty rough time this season breaking 1700 (last season we hit 1790 tops). Just seem stuck in the mid 1600s. I'm a rogue in decent gear besides S2 weps/shoulders paired with a holy pally. We are destroying double DPS teams most of the time (other than DS Druid/Rogue and Lock/Priest both of which mostly own us) but struggling massively against war/shamans and basically anything with a druid in it ;P
Druids just seem impossible for a single DPS (i.e. me) to kill and their CC is infinitely superior to a pally's. Same deal for shamans - in my BG (Cyclone) anyone over 1500 is likely to be in decent gear and if over 1600 you can pretty much guarantee mostly brutal + venge weps. We're beginning to wonder if we can "make" it given we are almost always at a gear disadvantage (i.e. no weps). I do very respectable DPS but like all ShS specs the damage is high sustained DPS rather than burst..........meaning healers can deal with it.
So tonight my pally partner is under strict instructions to go to war - to just freak out and focus on damage with heals only where absoutely necessary. He reckons with his gear he can do more burst than if he switched to ret and had crap gear..........wish us luck ;P Tips on playing a holy pally offensively or on being a rogue supporting one who is doing so are welcomed. i'll also be dropping some PvP kit for more DPS (belt+ring+goggles in place of best PvP equivalent other than helm which is S3 if i wear that). If this doesn't work i might switch to Muti or something.
Update. We got pwned. Lost 125 rating. We had some great games and lost a large number by a narrow margin but lack of the extra equipment based edge (no S3 weps) and weaknesses of the combo (very susceptable to mana burn, drain, viper - limited CC - limited burst) ultimately screwed us.
Verdict: holy pally shs rogue is not an ideal combo :P Duh....i guess :/
The combo works I'd say. Paladins are very efficient arena healers. They are susceptible to mana drains and burns and also interrupts. Dealing with these is what sets a good Paladin apart.
Viper Sting and Drain Mana can be cleansed. Mana Burn can be avoided with line of sight.
If interrupts are a problem then you need to help him with stuns and gouge to give him time to heal.
You should quite comfortable beat teams with Locks and/or Priests. You can stay on any Lock or Priest because your Paladin can cleanse Fear. Because you have access to Blessing of Freedom and Cleanse perhaps you're better off being Mutilate with fast stacking dispel resistant poisons. You'll probably do more sustained damage too.
To sum up:
Your Paladin needs to learn how to make good use of LoS and he has to be quick with his Cleanses. You need to keep melee off him and pressure your opponents.
This is the first season I have started playing feral druid rogue somewhat competitively, and I have only made it to a max of 1687 and then we had a few bad beats and lost down to around 1592 and ended last week at 1637 or so.
My question is, at my low bracket we have been attempting to do a lot more burst intially (which feels right to put pressure on healers and hopefully trinket a blind early or idealy a sap early). A lot of games I feel like I should be casting more then I do, but obviously my heals are very ineffective but can mitigate long enough to help finish somebody off.
Does it make more sense to go for a cyclone early on (slowing our initial burst a bit and using stealth to hopefully get cyclone off) and risk being interupted or should I be bursting and then looking for a feral charge/bash/cyclone with a blind to follow.
Or should I be playing it almost like a resto but "suprise" them in the end and try to finish somebody off ? (Playing this way to me feels a bit like asking to be outdamaged healing wise and end up with a quick loss)
I have watched a few of the well known deep feral movies (And read strats on our combo at AJ.. Not a very good write up there) but he is playing on a totally different level and right now we still get caught by people that outgear us and damn near insta gib myself or my rogue. So really just looking for some general advice
Paladin - sHs rogue hasn't worked out very well for me and my friend. Combat worked somewhat better (can't go mutilate because no daggers).
"Your Paladin needs to learn how to make good use of LoS and he has to be quick with his Cleanses. You need to keep melee off him and pressure your opponents." This is quite accurate but we've been really crappy at doing that.
We immediately gained 100 rating when we went to her undergeared disc priest--it really is that much easier.
The combo works I'd say. Paladins are very efficient arena healers. They are susceptible to mana drains and burns and also interrupts. Dealing with these is what sets a good Paladin apart.
Viper Sting and Drain Mana can be cleansed. Mana Burn can be avoided with line of sight.
If interrupts are a problem then you need to help him with stuns and gouge to give him time to heal.
You should quite comfortable beat teams with Locks and/or Priests. You can stay on any Lock or Priest because your Paladin can cleanse Fear. Because you have access to Blessing of Freedom and Cleanse perhaps you're better off being Mutilate with fast stacking dispel resistant poisons. You'll probably do more sustained damage too.
To sum up:
Your Paladin needs to learn how to make good use of LoS and he has to be quick with his Cleanses. You need to keep melee off him and pressure your opponents.
You should try the combo some time I hear what you are saying and agree the combo has some potential and that the points you raise are valid but:
- viper sting whilst cleasable is often behind a wall of pet induced poisons that need to be cleansed first + it is easy to reapply.
- LoS for mana burns isn't easy in some places (Lorderon) and almost always comes DURING a fear. I have been alarmed how little time a priest needs to burn my pally to zero mana (and the serious mana burner does pretty much nothing at all in a match except MB)
- interrupts are not generally a problem and if melee is on my pally he is pretty comfortable. This isnt the core problem area. 1v1 he's pwns warriors and does well against most rogues.
- lock+priest is super rough due to the immense number of fears (i think about 6 per minute), the mana drains from both and curse of tongues + pet to prevent drinking. This is a seriously hard combo for rogue pally when the guys you face are geared (sl/sl locks and disc priests (i.e. most of them in arena) in S4 are tough cookies.......if a shadow priest comes out he can expect a pretty swift death - i love those guys). We don't actually do too bad on these guys but it is rough for the reasons i mention.
Totally agree that muti might be a better option for this combo and i am going to try that. We have so far found that double DPS non caster teams are cake to beat, especially anything with a ret pally (BoP FTW) but lack of burst and susceptibility to cc (which IMO is half the battle in 2s since 1 peron is 50% of the team)/drains makes it hard against many common combos. I know this combo used to work OK back in the day but in S4 against well geared guys believe me - it's rough. We know we are playing the combo decently too because, at least up until just short of 1700 rating, we've never lost to a mirror team....ever. Very easy to say that this is a scrub rating and so on but honestly, in our BG, the standard seems pretty decent and people are well geared at this level.
Hopefully muti will yeild the burst we need to do better.
Apparently there is some new skil/talent that may be introduced for pallies akin to evocation to recoup mana..........that would make a world of difference i think.
ShS Rogue/Holy Paladin is a very viable combo - The World of Warcraft Armory
What they do that you don't, I'm not sure, but just blaming your losses on the comp isn't doing you any service.
Priest-Rogue does have much more room for error than Paladin-Rogue. Both combos are certainly viable, but Paladin-Rogue is far more difficult to succeed with. If you have a priest and you enjoy playing him as much as the paladin, then no reason not to use the easier comp. =)
I'm playing a Mage-Retadin comp myself. I've heard from many people that it's not as good as Retadin-Rogue, but it's all I've got!
What they do that you don't, I'm not sure, but just blaming your losses on the comp isn't doing you any service.
Fair comment. I'd love to know what they are doing. Mind you - it's not exactly a prolifically successful combo and in percentage terms the team you have linked to might literally be one in a million (they are after all a Black Temple geared holy pally/rogue combo above 2k). I have no idea how competitive that BG is either................but point taken i'll stop blaming the comp and blame myself Just wish i knew what needs to be improved on to make it work really because i really think we are doing everything we can. I'd love a 10 minute conversation with either one of the guys on that team to see how they do things.
trying out a boomkin/restokin 2v2 setup with me playing as the resto druid.Havent lost yet with the comp for 12 games but i think that might stop when i get higher up.
My previous comp was a restokin/ret paladin and it was ok upto 1850 but we were having a lot of problems with the ret paladins mana especially with priest/rogue or priest/warrior and especially on cyclone where priests are oh so offensive doing as much damage as healing it was getting rough.
This is the first season I have started playing feral druid rogue somewhat competitively, and I have only made it to a max of 1687 and then we had a few bad beats and lost down to around 1592 and ended last week at 1637 or so.
My question is, at my low bracket we have been attempting to do a lot more burst intially (which feels right to put pressure on healers and hopefully trinket a blind early or idealy a sap early). A lot of games I feel like I should be casting more then I do, but obviously my heals are very ineffective but can mitigate long enough to help finish somebody off.
Does it make more sense to go for a cyclone early on (slowing our initial burst a bit and using stealth to hopefully get cyclone off) and risk being interupted or should I be bursting and then looking for a feral charge/bash/cyclone with a blind to follow.
Or should I be playing it almost like a resto but "suprise" them in the end and try to finish somebody off ? (Playing this way to me feels a bit like asking to be outdamaged healing wise and end up with a quick loss)
I have watched a few of the well known deep feral movies (And read strats on our combo at AJ.. Not a very good write up there) but he is playing on a totally different level and right now we still get caught by people that outgear us and damn near insta gib myself or my rogue. So really just looking for some general advice
Ferals almost always want to open with an Energy dump out of stealth. The bulk of Feral pressure comes from Pounce->Mangle->Rip, which you can only unload from stealth. You give up way too much offense openning at a distance with Cyclone or heal. Cyclone also shares DR with Blind, so you significantly limit your Blind-gib options by using Cyclone early.
Cats are very squishy, so it often feels like suicide to melee (thus the Feral instinct to play like Resto/Dreamstate from a safe distance). It is often actually suicide to press a Cat melee assault after you have dropped your Mangle+bleed load. You need to recognize those situations and get your Cat ass out of there while you are still high on health.
Generally speaking, you have a reasonable chance to double melee gib Priests, Warlocks, and Warriors with CC/interrupt on their partners. Against most other common 2-comps, you will generally want to switch to "get the heck out of there, play like a Resto, and drop another load later" mode immediately after you drop your Mangle+bleed load.
Your Rogue will want to take advantage of your Mangle by using bleeds. Having Rupture ticking helps a lot when your Rogue leaves the kill target to CC/interrupt the CC target. If you are both openning on the same caster target, Garrot->Pounce->Mangle generates a lot of ticking pressure while preserving DR for a CS on the kill target when the Rogue Blind->Sap the CC target.
Fair comment. I'd love to know what they are doing. Mind you - it's not exactly a prolifically successful combo and in percentage terms the team you have linked to might literally be one in a million (they are after all a Black Temple geared holy pally/rogue combo above 2k). I have no idea how competitive that BG is either................but point taken i'll stop blaming the comp and blame myself Just wish i knew what needs to be improved on to make it work really because i really think we are doing everything we can. I'd love a 10 minute conversation with either one of the guys on that team to see how they do things.
It's not one in a million, nobody really plays it, but I've had no real problems getting to 1900 with it. Neither zilea nor kazel are using a large amount of pve gear, aka kazel doesn't have 4pc4pc.
Zilea wrote a short blog about it when they got 2200 with it, here: 2203 as Paladin/Rogue on BG9. He said he uses six pieces of pve gear, and his rogue runs ~350 resil, and versus drain teams if they expect to get the same team his rogue will swap in some pve pieces.
You will essentially hardcounter many of the double dps teams, so you can be quite effective with it. Look at Mage/Disc, it's slowly coming back because it can farm Warrior/Druid.
I'm currently doing Resto shaman/warrior. It is the setup we got Gladiator with in season 3 (s1 and s2 were Elem/warrior/Holy paladin). It's much harder now though, not just because of pointselling being diminished but because the entire ladders seems to have condensed into a climate where almost every fight is against a countercomp.
Rogue mage. Warrior druid. Priest/druid warlock. In the past we progressed by losing when we had to and winning whenever we were able to. That ratio has shifted too much to the former, not sure how to break the trend.
It's not one in a million, nobody really plays it, but I've had no real problems getting to 1900 with it. Neither zilea nor kazel are using a large amount of pve gear, aka kazel doesn't have 4pc4pc.
Yeah, it is a rare comp. I think a large part of its rarity results from it not being very good without at least some access to MH/BT+ gear on both toons. Without it, almost any Druid 2-comp played properly will outlast Rogue+Paladin. Kazel had full access to MH/BT with 'Glaives, while Zilea had full access to SWP with 4+4. They just log out in their Resilience gear instead of their Arena gear most of the time for some reason.
Some 2-comps you can go 54-6 on your way to 2200 if you are pro; some 2-comps you can be the skill head honcho, have full access to MH/BT/SWP gear, exploit the drink/sit bug, and still go 98-50 on your way to 2200; other 2-comps you are just flat out of luck. Rogue+Paladin certainly isn't in the first category, but if your Battlegroup is not oversaturated with Druid comps and you queue-dodge religiously, you can apparently climb out of the third category with Rogue+Paladin.
Originally Posted by Melg
I'm currently doing Resto shaman/warrior. It's much harder now though, not just because of pointselling being diminished but because the entire ladders seems to have condensed into a climate where almost every fight is against a countercomp.
I think it's safe to say at this point that most of the casual teams have quit Arena in S4. With most of the casual teams gone, you are facing far stronger teams at the same rating now than you are used to from S3, as you can no longer farm people who farm people who farm people who farm the casual teams. I don't think the 2-comp field has changed much from S3. It's just that losing more to winnable comps can certainly make it seem like you are running into your countercomps almost every fight.
Yeah, it is a rare comp. I think a large part of its rarity results from it not being very good without at least some access to MH/BT+ gear on both toons. Without it, almost any Druid 2-comp played properly will outlast Rogue+Paladin. Kazel had full access to MH/BT with 'Glaives, while Zilea had full access to SWP with 4+4. They just log out in their Resilience gear instead of their Arena gear most of the time for some reason.
Some 2-comps you can go 54-6 on your way to 2200 if you are pro; some 2-comps you can be the skill head honcho, have full access to MH/BT/SWP gear, exploit the drink/sit bug, and still go 98-50 on your way to 2200; other 2-comps you are just flat out of luck. Rogue+Paladin certainly isn't in the first category, but if your Battlegroup is not oversaturated with Druid comps and you queue-dodge religiously, you can apparently climb out of the third category with Rogue+Paladin.
I think it's safe to say at this point that most of the casual teams have quit Arena in S4. With most of the casual teams gone, you are facing far stronger teams at the same rating now than you are used to from S3, as you can no longer farm people who farm people who farm people who farm the casual teams. I don't think the 2-comp field has changed much from S3. It's just that losing more to winnable comps can certainly make it seem like you are running into your countercomps almost every fight.
yeah it feels like the ladder has moved 100-150 points from s3. 1750 is the new 1600-1650, or so it really feels.
It's not one in a million, nobody really plays it, but I've had no real problems getting to 1900 with it. Neither zilea nor kazel are using a large amount of pve gear, aka kazel doesn't have 4pc4pc.
It's BG9...
Well, although my profile has yet to update as at the time of posting, my holy paly partner and I finished at over 1700 last night from a mid 1550s start. We changed the holy pally spec to be much more offensive and i respec'd as well to basically do very solid DPS from hemo spam with limited use of snd and lots of kidneys (oh and deadly poisons). I used to use imp expose etc and try burst more but now i leave the finishing burst to the pally (quite good) and focus more on CC.
Unit frames and figuring out focus targetting with hotkeys for deadly throw to focus etc helped a lot too.
Need to pause at this level to get some points for helm and booties but will see how much further we can take it soon enough. Tough combo for sure but very rewarding when it comes off - i think the pally DPS took a lot of people off guard.
PS: no BT gear just a few bits of badge gear and S2 weps and shoulders - other stuff s4.
A friend of mine and I just started a 2v2 team. I just hit 70 5 days ago, I have my S2 MH+OH (fists), my engineering helm, and my s2 shoulders. He has an entire set of S2.
I am 20-0-41 and he is enhance spec (not sure of exact spec).
How viable is this class/spec combination? Am I ok to stick with sub? I like the mobility and survivability but i want to dump as much damage as I can, as fast as possible.
What class combos will we have problems with? Thanks guys, new to 2's.
Not very. An enhancement shaman is notoriously easy to kite, and you're going to rely on quick kills. The longer the fight goes on, the less chance you have of winning. I see this having some good success against the common comp of M/R, though. You could ride those types of wins to 1800 maybe. Against healer/melee comps, you'd really want to coordinate your rogue stuns for when your shaman can be on the stunned target, and in that sense you'd treat it like BM Hunter/Rogue. I see more success against cast-time healers (Shaman/Pally) since you could work the dps and just coordinate shocks/blind/gouge/etc on the healer.
Me and my friend hit 70 like two weeks ago and are now doing arena. We're a Frost Mage/Dreamstate Druid combo and so far there are some teams we are having a lot of difficulty (Mage/Rogue). Right now they seem to be in abundance.
My question is, is this combination viable? Also, anyone have any clue what we should be doing against Mage/Rogue?
Right now we try to take advantage of the fact they can't heal by simply attempting to CC kite the rogue and have the mages duel it out while I switch between healing and dps. If the rogue Shadowsteps behind me the mage will poly him and I will do the same with cyclone for him while we try to take down the mage.
So far this is pretty difficult though as the burst they put out is pretty big. I usually end up being stunlocked by the rogue at some point (or even at the start) and that already being the end of it (especially if I trinketed).
Any suggestions?
(We're both over 300 res and we both are getting close to full s2 gear)
07/30/08, 2:47 PM
I hear what you are saying and agree the combo has some potential and that the points you raise are valid but:
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