• Kinz

Yeah couldn't really think of a way, what we ended up doing which worked on some lesser rogue groups was get onto a pillar (Assuming Blades Edge) and spam tab targetting with an instant with Void ready for sac, and sheild on myself that way the rogues have to burn sprint to make the jump and usually only get the sap off and not the CS after, then me and my lock partner just try to live past the initial burst.

On the warrior pummel issue, I'm sure you can argue me to th ground on this, but if your "waiting" for the cyclone, your not doing your full DPS, and if you are doing dps, you have a very strong chance to be on global cooldown. This is not counting if the druid casts, moves and then casts again, faking your pummel or indeed shifts bear and bashes you. I could go on with the ways he could escape or stop the pummel but it's going off on an extreme ideal scenario which as I posted above, is not a good way to assess 2v2 viability.

 

XI-

MS warrior dps is very bursty, and cooldown dependant due to the c/d's of MS/WW. It's not a big deal to try and sit on a cast. If your cyclone gets pummeled you can't heal and then you're going to get hit by 2 instants+a heroic in 3 seconds, and take a huge damage spike if you stay in caster.

 

drole

mf r1 for getting the warrior in combat followed by immediate cyclone, a range of more than 25 yards and r1 mf spam to keep warrior in combat is way better. He cant follow you behind pillars/stuff as you will root him out of sight of the paladin.

 

hip

I wanted to share an interesting rogue/pala team I encountered about two weeks ago that was able to consistently beat us (war/pala, hovering around 2100 atm). The rogue went wound poison+crippling poison and was prep specced, and they were actually able to outlast my mana pool. The basic idea behind that (as far as I could see) is that the rogue was able to consistently avoid my warriors mortal strikes. Whether it was his 24 seconds of evasion, clever stuns or just the fact that BoP removes ms but not wound poison, my warrior was only able to keep MS up around 40% of the time in any of the games, whereas he was taking massive damage from being EA'ed and in zerker half the time to avoid gouges (which the rogue exploited to kite the MS off on occasion). Also, take into account the fact that the rogue had more than 10k health, so we werent going to burst him down anytime soon. So basically each fight we were left in a standoff against a rogue that was virtually immune to MS; which meant that no matter how much damage he took, it didnt matter because it was a cinch for his paladin to heal through. After the rogue had established 5 stacks of wound poison and EA'ed my warrior, I literally was forced to spam Holy Light to keep the warrior up, whereas the rogues paladin was having little trouble at all. I believe the best game ended with me at 0% mana and the opposing at 30%, but most of them were much more bleake then that.

So ya, rogue+healer is very possible against warrior+healer.

Now, for my question. I was wondering if any paladins in the higher echelons of 2v2 have tried swapping to heavy shadow resistance gear for warlock fights. I know that most of these fights are unique in that what really kills the team is the warlocks superior cc and that between Spell Lock, fear, and curse of tongues; a paladin really cant get much more than a few holy shocks or FoL's off outside of his/her bubble. I'm thinking with around 350 or so shadow resist, you'll be running with 50%+ binary spell resist, which should logically mean 50%+ resistance to all three of those forms of cc, stacked on top of your innate resistances from Unyielding Faith and Imp Conc Aura. Anyone have any experience with this kind of strategy before I go spend 100+g getting myself a resistance gearset?

 

• frmorrison

I have never seen anyone equip a set of SR to counter a Warlock, however even if you get 50% resist rate on his shadow spells, he will still get a Tongues on you, and he still have Fire damage if you are resisting all the shadow spells.

I don't feel a set of Resist gear is viable, however I think having a few nice +resist items are helpful (like the Kara neck against Mages' counterspell/sheep) and the BT attunement quest neck.

 

• Kinz

No decent druid is going to be sitting in caster form trying to channel a cyclone with a warrior sitting in their face. You will get bashed, rooted or out run by the druid and if not you'll be CC'd by his friend, even if only for a second, more than enough time for them to evade you. This is half the reason I mentioned the credability of these posts, there is always an "if" or "but" or an outside influence, I'm doing it right now in this post, in maybe 1 in 10 fights your example would happen, in maybe 1 in 10 my example will happen, rest of the time someone messes up or interferes. It's so rare for a warrior to be ontop of a druid, unhindered just waiting for a cyclone to come while the druid prances around in caster form, unless they are well below your rating. Maybe our battlegroup just has some awesome druids but they move fast and only need 1 missed hamstring or piercing howl to be off and then you will get cycloned.

Perhaps I am wrong and some of you guys are really that good, can pummel 1.5 second casts while dps'ing, keep skilled, well geared druids locked down and next to you while dealing massive burst damage on feral druids, if so I would hate to be against you and you PvP at a level higher than mine, but so far I have not encountered it.

 

◊ Vontre

Or just rely on the fact that the pummel cooldown is well beyond the scope of its interrupt duration, as has fucked me over before when playing a warrior.

www.magegraf.com
www.magegraf.com/mage_dps.zip

Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.

 

Dashivax

That was the point we were trying to make, the druid will obviously get a Cyclone off eventually, but he is going to have to really work for it. During that time, he will be taking a good portion of damage, be using a good portion of his mana by shapeshifting and healing himself, and ultimately will not outlast the Paladin.

That is what the discussion was about from the start, War/Druid teams' viability against War/Pal teams. It is just simply harder and less viable for a Druid to survive against a Warrior in the same way a Paladin would, even with Cyclone.

 

• Kinz

Fair enough I'll concede to this, must of missed the initial post where the discussion took off, apologies for that.

I will ask, your 2v2 team, your not MS, do you not find it hinders you being unable to cut the heal down against a long lasting team? What sort of win rates do you have against a Pally/War(MS) combo? Or does the benefits of more fear breaks/faster intercepts make up for this?

 

Dashivax

I respec 5-10 times a week for tanking, raid dps (current spec) and arena. I usually run 33/28 for Arenas, although I will definitely be switching to 33/25/3 once the Flurry nerf goes in.

 

Jackbot

A guildmate's team of Warlock + Shadow Priest (2300 rating) commonly bragged about easily farming Warrior + Paladin teams. However, they ran into one team who actually equipped Shadow resist and promptly gave up 100 points in 4 or 5 losses.

 

• Leene

Alright I have a couple of questions regarding 2vs2 arena. I've just started playing in this bracket with a friend of mine, I'm a holy/prot (43/18) paladin and he's a deep fire mage. So far it seems to me, with my limited experience, that this bracket is really a lot like rock, paper & scissor. Now granted neither of us are hardcore pvpers, but I've played quite a lot of pvp on my old alliance paladin, so I know my way around the class quite well. My mage friend on the other hand is quite new to both pvp and his class, used to play a warrior. Given the setting and our not that great (or pvp focused) gear, what should we expect? Which teams SHOULD we beat and which teams are our natural enemies?

In the few games we've managed so far, locks really give us a hard time, locks with any class. We've managed to beat lock/mage combos a couple of times, but just as often it ends with me just being spell locked/feared/cs'd. Teams with rogues/warriors/druids/hunters on the other hand seem to go down without much of a fight. The only concern I have right now is the fact that it seems like my mage friend has a very limited mana pool, either that or he's blowing his mana, because in most fights he runs out really quick. This is especially true when faced with teams that have a healer. I'm not an expert on the mage class, so I can't really tell what, or even if for that matter, he's doing something wrong. Any mages out there that can comment on how to burst down healers/healer teams, without going oom in 5 seconds? I'd really appreciate any hints, so that I might be able to give him some advice.

 

Hannibal777

And no druid seems to mention nature swiftness. Most arena druids are resto specs or have enough to get nature swiftness. If I am going down, I will burn nature swiftness root, then travel form, then cyclon assuming a clense is coming.

Then there is nature's grasp which auto root when you are beating on me. Again by the time you cleanse, I would have gained some distance and ready for cyclone.

 

◊ Lord BEEF

As a druid I find the duration on mortal strike's debuff very frustrating. I can get hit with Ms, cast a cyclone, and even a second cyclone, but the damn debuff is still on me making it hard for me to bring myself back to full health. If it was six seconds of debuff I could time it such that my healing touch lands just as the debuff wears off.

Check out my friend's bitchin' Lord of the Rings Art

 

Latham

I just started a 2's team with a new palidan in the guild and the only combo we lost to was warlock/mage. Though I think we figured out a way to beat them 50/50. We pretty much decided that our only real shot at winning was to have him bubble early while I take out the warlock. I'm curious on what other war/pali teams are doing against lock/mage.

 

hip

Hope that the mage is fire or the warlock is affliction/destruction. Quite simply if you cant take one of them down in your paladin's bubble period your paladin is gonna get all of feared/counterspelled/spell locked and you will be all on your own. I often wonder how a warrior playing really defensively (IE: shield for spell reflect, kiting around pillars, etc) would fare against this, as the paladin can still put out some healing (read: occasional fols and holy shocks) post-bubble and can do some subpar damage as well, and the team you're against has no healing outside of bandages and healthstones. Logic tells me that if you could take things slow and just keep from dying, a fight of attrition could be possible.

 

drole

Oh yes he will.

Scenario 1: You are not interrupted; you win! /cheer

Scenario 2: You are interrupted; you are now silenced for 6 seconds and lets face it you are not going to get out of melee range for those 6 seconds anyway so you might as well give it a try. Nor are you taking more damage since you will be sitting in travelform witch has the same AC as casterform. On the other hand the warrior has now blown his only interrupt aside from IS witch he could use to get in melee range if you outrun him anyway, so no gains here either for spamming travelform. What you do gain however is the option to jump into bear form, endure the punichment for a couple of seconds and then jump out and get a full 4 seconds to root, cyclone or what else you might wanna do.

Of course you blow your NG first, but i personally would save my NS for situations that cant be solved without using it, this one can.

 

Taja

to above me; Letting a warrior bash on your while your pummeled seems weird aswell. As I already said in a previous post any decent warrior will jump away on the last second of silence to intercept. Get another free hit of and then your pummel is ready oncemore. Granted I dont play my warrior anymore right now but we were never outlasted by a druid/warrior. In all honesty, the druids I met were pretty low ranked, higher rated teams with druids seem very rare

 

drole

no he wont, its on cooldown.

 

Darerer

To any fairly high up priest/rogue teams out there, I was wondering how you guys go about beating pally/warrior sides. At the moment my 2v2 team of a priest/rogue just doesn't stand a chance against a pally/warrior team with the slightest bit of skill or gear. Am I missing some secret little trick, or is it a matter of gear? I should note that we've tried a variety of tactics, ranging from dpsing the warrior and trying to outheal/mana burn the pally to trying to drop the pally before the warrior drops me with the use of mass dispel on their bubble. At the end of the day it always seems to be a matter of me not being able to keep myself alive for long enough against the warrior though. For the record, I have about 8k hp self buffed, with 0 resilience and a 28/33 full pvp build. Thanks.

 

Vazu

..yeah, I'm part of a 2100+ 2v2 team, Paladin/SL Warlock..

There are a handful of shadow Priest / UA Warlock teams in our bracket. The deal is to simply stack 200+ SR and wait for the Priest to run OOM. Shadow Priests have terrible endurance for DPS'ing beyond about a minute or so.

Felhunter MD + Shadow Resist Aura + 70 SR worth of gear on me
Paladin wears a mix of greens (rings and 2-3 armor pieces) off the AH. Works very well.

 

Mearis

If you try to outlast them, won't you get manaburned down/have your pet banished?

 

Darkmantle

These stats are completely unacceptable for arena especially versus a warrior. The more resilience you have the less he crits and less flurries he has. You need resilience to win a mana war just because of the reduced damage and burst you will take. As a warlock I pvp with 11.7k hp and 130 resilience in 2v2.

In any long term game doting a pet to kill it is far more effective than wasting cast after cast to try and banish a felhunter.