In PvE you are looking to dump rage at all points and maximise damage output while fulfilling whatever other role is required (manage threat, stay alive, handle adds, buff your party etc). Cycles matter.
In PvP I tested Imp Slam, and just could not get comfortable with a cycle that worked. Mainly because I found a cycle impossible to maintain as a battle ebbed and flowed. What you do now compared to what you are doing in 4 secs makes a cycle and a castsequence macro a limiting tactical choice. What if you wanted to MS instead of Slam? What if your swing timer was interrupted or slowed down by a stun or thunderclap respectively... the 3.8 macro reset will still happen but your swing timer could be 4.56.
For what it's worth I have Slam bound but only use it if snared and someone is silly enough to stand in my melee range. Can be good, but situational.
Possibly try a macro with a modifier key so you can Slam and MS with the same keybind + ctrl/alt/shift?
Last edited by Foundry : 08/27/07 at 3:49 AM.
Reason: typo
The points in imp slam are not worth it for a PvP/arena build. If you go 33/28 and get imp slam you are either giving up imp intercept,which is insane, or giving up points into flurry.
The points in imp slam are not worth it for a PvP/arena build. If you go 33/28 and get imp slam you are either giving up imp intercept,which is insane, or giving up points into flurry.
I think you are mistaken here.
With 28 points in fury you can have 3 points in flurry (which is max possible with 28), 2 points in improved slam and 2 points in improved intercept.
I think you are mistaken here.
With 28 points in fury you can have 3 points in flurry (which is max possible with 28), 2 points in improved slam and 2 points in improved intercept.
To do that would be no points in imp execute. 10 rage executes are hard to pass up anywhere, pve and/or pvp.
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Yeah from my initial tries I havent felt comfortable with slam in arenas, most of the time I find myself chasing a priest or other squishy caster who has constant BoF on them. When MS comes up I find myself sometimes lacking the rage (with catastrofic results)
To do that would be no points in imp execute. 10 rage executes are hard to pass up anywhere, pve and/or pvp.
Yes but this was not the point.
Besides, is improved execute that valuable in arena play?
I find, most of the time i get to execute range the fight is won in either case ... 10 rage or 15 rage execute. So I'm still undecided if it is deemed necessary for arena play.
Improved slam is of little value but IMHO can be used effectively to enhance your burst once you have saved enough rage (that is with mace spec though ... stuns help obviosly).
Bottomline: slam or execute?
At the moment I favor slam.
If you spec into slam you should on the one hand only slam if you got enough rage to keep MS on your target. It won't do you any good if you slam for 1,5k but then your MS drops of and your target is healed to 100 % again. Then you should only slam directly after an autoswing because your rage in the arena comes almost completely from your white damage. Don't macro this, slam only to dump rage on a static target. MS is still your main style due to its all important healing debuff.
Regarding Stormherald: I guess the main problem is the slow speed and its corresponding high procc rate of the talent. Nerfing it is probably ok but its a fine line to walk on, since once the spec gets to weak everybody will switch specs (probably to swords which provide another oh shit scenario in case the spec procs). Short internal CDs or a 15-20, perhaps 30 % nerf of the stunchance for very slow weapons like the herald/Deep Thunder) would be ok, anything more will make mace spec obsolete I guess, especially since it will also reduce the rage a mace warrior gets (which somehow offsets the lesser damage the spec does).
Yes but this was not the point.
Besides, is improved execute that valuable in arena play?
I find, most of the time i get to execute range the fight is won in either case ... 10 rage or 15 rage execute. So I'm still undecided if it is deemed necessary for arena play.
Improved slam is of little value but IMHO can be used effectively to enhance your burst once you have saved enough rage (that is with mace spec though ... stuns help obviosly).
Bottomline: slam or execute?
At the moment I favor slam.
I would take imp execute hands down for pvp. It has happened to me soo many times that I execute and the healer is at around 2-5% hp left, managed to get a shield up or whatever, then heals up to 30+ because Im out of rage, so I cant pummel and I cant put up ms. Imp execute would have won me many fights.
If you spec into slam you should on the one hand only slam if you got enough rage to keep MS on your target. It won't do you any good if you slam for 1,5k but then your MS drops of and your target is healed to 100 % again. Then you should only slam directly after an autoswing because your rage in the arena comes almost completely from your white damage. Don't macro this, slam only to dump rage on a static target. MS is still your main style due to its all important healing debuff.
Regarding Stormherald: I guess the main problem is the slow speed and its corresponding high procc rate of the talent. Nerfing it is probably ok but its a fine line to walk on, since once the spec gets to weak everybody will switch specs (probably to swords which provide another oh shit scenario in case the spec procs). Short internal CDs or a 15-20, perhaps 30 % nerf of the stunchance for very slow weapons like the herald/Deep Thunder) would be ok, anything more will make mace spec obsolete I guess, especially since it will also reduce the rage a mace warrior gets (which somehow offsets the lesser damage the spec does).
Thanks for some very good advice, both to you and other contributors. I do agree with imp execute, it has happened quite a few times you get a healer down below execute range and dont have the rage to end it, wait that extra second and he gets a heal (use a healthstone) and get over 20%.
I would take imp execute hands down for pvp. It has happened to me soo many times that I execute and the healer is at around 2-5% hp left, managed to get a shield up or whatever, then heals up to 30+ because Im out of rage, so I cant pummel and I cant put up ms. Imp execute would have won me many fights.
Well, there's your problem. Don't execute if it means the MS debuff falls off, unless you're 100% certain to kill your target. If it's a priest, for instance, and they survive the execute, you're out of rage, and the debuff is gone, all they have to do is shield; you get no rage for long enough to them to get a 100% heal, and land a pom. In that situation, your execute actually healed them.
Alot of it is rage management. Don't hamstring if it means ms falls off; tell your mage or shaman to snare him. Don't do anything but ms, if that's all you can get rage for. The debuff is extremely high priority...don't risk it falling off just to spam an execute that won't kill unless it crits...with resilience, chances are that it won't, and your impatience possibly lost the game.
Improved execute is still far better than imp slam, though, and can certainly win games.
After a search for "Race" in the thread, nothing really came up, so I figure I will ask it here.
For horde right now, is orc still the accepted best race for a warrior in PvP? After playing around with the premade undead warrior on test for a bit in arena, I found myself using wotf on occasion but not often. Do tauren/orcs/trolls find themselves using their racial abilities often or rarely in arena?
Orcs are nice for sure for the stun resist. I don't know if I would willingly Mortal Strike myself in arenas. It has a nice visual component and someone catching on to it could be very lethal.
Undeads are nice, but if you're arena specced as a warrior you have 2 fear breaks already. 3 if you consider the pvp trinket. Is getting a 4th fear break that important?
Taurens I find to be the winner here. 5% health is always going to be strong. And despite its cast time, war stomp is a powerful ability. Stun resist is nice, but if you have second wind you're going to be getting healed from it so stunning isn't the end of the world.
If I could pick my warriors race again, I would definitely go tauren. Orc stun resist is nice, sure, but the self MS is of negligible usefulness in arena. There are so many times when fighting a caster where I would have killed for another interrupt, and war stomp gives it to you. The 5% extra hp is just icing on the cake for pvp, and great for tanking. The tauren 2 hand animations look awesome, too.
Tauren is probably the strongest racial, yes. The only disadvantage is its size, making you a high priority target in BGs (not so much in arenas where the focus is much more less dependent on such factors).
Though stun resist is pretty nice, especially if stacked with iron will (and due to the popularity of mace specs for rogues and warriors), resisting an intercept can be gamewinning as well sometimes. Oh and your second wind will proc regardless if the stun hits IIRC.
Regarding Blood Fury: using this really depends on the situation. In 2:2 I play with a priest which means I seldomly get focussed (only from dual caster teams, which can be predicted). Even if I MS myself and the Rogue or Warrior turns, its often a bad call for the other team since my priest is relieved for a moment. So yes, sometimes its nice.
Conclusion: no racials are really useless, but tauren is probably the strongest set you can get. But in the end I went for my femal orc anyway and I don't regret it (yet )
Execute drains your rage bar. So if you had more than 15 rage to start with, the talent is just giving you 21*5 = 102 more pre-crit/AC damage on an execute. (What's maybe nicer is you can execute w/ 10-14 rage.)
Yeah, that's the point of imp execute when you get down there. If the first one didn't do it and your white hit soon after doesn't crit, you might not have the 15 rage needed to do it again without having to resort to Bloodrage to get it back up over 15.
Or seeing as those boots are ok for what I play (1600 5v5), should I just save the points to go straight to season 3 boots when they come out?
The 18k honor does take a few AV's to grind, and to be honest I don't thinks its a huge upgrade. I would like to wait. But then again as of right now, every little bit helps.
Or seeing as those boots are ok for what I play (1600 5v5), should I just save the points to go straight to season 3 boots when they come out?
The 18k honor does take a few AV's to grind, and to be honest I don't thinks its a huge upgrade. I would like to wait. But then again as of right now, every little bit helps.
Is 30 resilience, 11 stamina and 2k armor worth it to you? I personally would get them. Also, I have a feeling the veteran's stuff won't be upgraded soon.
Is 30 resilience, 11 stamina and 2k armor worth it to you? I personally would get them. Also, I have a feeling the veteran's stuff won't be upgraded soon.
wow that really shows just how good they are. I can see the logic that basically what would they do with season 3 (if there where to be season 3 honor gear) - I mean it would be even further ahead of current pve loot. So thats a good argument as to why they might just stick with veterans.
I have been told recently that I should be stacking Str since maces dont crit as much as axes. Since my team has had a big problem with the DoT groups (warlock/priest/frost mage) when theoretically we shouldnt b/c we have pally/frost mage/MS war for 3's. Ive really been thinking that crit was the way to go since SH's crits are huge even against resilience stacked opponents. I have just been wondering if maybe I should pick up a 2h sword or 2h Axe for the crit or extra attack as more of a burst stand point. But Ive also been told that I can time Heroic strike and MS at the same time to double up the damage, Ive tried it out and it appears that if I hit HS before I intercept it will ignore swing timer and I can MS immediately after. I find it hard that I am going to always have the rage to do this though. What Im really leaning towards is picking up a 2h Axe or Sword for 3's, b/c i know that stormherald is the best 5v5 weapon for a warrior since I cannot be bursted as easily and am not really the main focus in 5s as much as 3's
I did a little research and found that I could pick up about 60 str (120 AP) through gems... this gives me about 30 top end damage on a 2h, so Im thinking that stacking str isnt really worth it because I am losing 3% crit on a mace that doesnt have a lot of crit to begin with.
Full PvE gear I am currently at 34% crit/ 2k AP in zerker, Full PvP around 32% and around 1850 AP. Overall I could gain about 400 AP through changing gear around and this is a MAX if I got the best of AP gear and in total would lose around 6% crit, putting me down to a weak 26ish % in zerker ( add in 400 resil on opponents) now its around 15% crit... So is me hitting for 1300 worth not critting ever?
If I was to go Axes I would be able to gain that crit through spec, lose the stun that doesnt proc as much on caster groups (which is the only groups we have a problem with) then I could stack AP, not only will I hit like a ton but i would have the crit to back it up and maybe eventually pick up a soul cleaver and be set.
But anyways I really just want to know peoples comments without having to spend a ton of gold rebuilding my gear. So give me your thoughts/comments.
08/27/07, 6:48 AM
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