In a straight 1 on 1 cloaking TC is very smart. It costs a lot of rage to apply and can't be done in zerker stance. If you clos it and the warrior is already in zerker stance it's a lot to lose for the warrior to reapply it.
Of course in a 1 on 1 a smart warrior is playing in mostly D stance and only swapping quickly for zerker rages.
I guess optimally you'd cloak it right after it's applied and you see the warrior change stances. If the warrior sees you cloak it and tries to reapply he's open for a gouge/restealth and you can probably reopen on him again and totally destroy him. Pretty much nothing negative can happen for you.
If you're fighting a rogue that you HAD to tclap in the first place (i.e AR+evasion up), going zerker is the dumbest thing you can do. Sword/board in battle/defensive crushes rogues, you can pop bleeds, revenge/overpower, Tclap, demo, disarm, rend. You gain whirlwind and 3% crit in zerker while taking 20% more damage than in defensive. It's not a good trade.
Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.
I was under the impression you could Cloak out of the mob version of Thunderclap that slows your movement, but not the Warrior skill. I have a vague memory of trying to cloak it off but and it didn't work so I never tried again. Can anyone else comment on this?
A mob TClap is classified as magic. It is dispellable through standard PvE dispel methods. Player TClap is classed as physical, and isn't dispellable. I would be really surprised if you could CLoS out of a warrior one.
If you're fighting a rogue that you HAD to tclap in the first place (i.e AR+evasion up), going zerker is the dumbest thing you can do. Sword/board in battle/defensive crushes rogues, you can pop bleeds, revenge/overpower, Tclap, demo, disarm, rend. You gain whirlwind and 3% crit in zerker while taking 20% more damage than in defensive. It's not a good trade.
Any well-played rogue will burn you down even with a shield equipped. I'd definately be staying in battle stance for overpowers, keeping TC/demo/piercinghowl up and overpowering/MS between stuns.
I've been recently playing in the 2v2's trying it out with a druid. Although I'm somewhat better geared then the druid neither of us have fantasic gear by comparison to others. (this is our first season on these chars, thus we are significantly behind the curve, even in the lower brackets).
Anyway, We are being torn apart by double dps teams, and other druid warrior teams. Double ice mage either blows me up, I spell reflect and turtle up in defensive stance and intervene and try to LoS as much as possible, though I can never seem to weather the storm, as it were. We also fought a double PoM undead mage team (yay useless fear) where I would be sheeped and the second my druid fell below 80% he would be double imp CS'd + arcane power pyro x2, which he simply was not surviving, it's quite disheartening to see the battle basically over before I get to stop being a damned sheep.
We fought a warrior druid team, where there warrior was chasing my druid and I was trying, which was in vein in the end, to dps their warrior with a 5 stack of sunders. Their warrior while doing this had no pressure and was free to CC, thus MS and the sunders would fall off along with demo and TC. (the druid was trying to CC the druid, but the warrior seemed to be on him far more then I was able to keep up with him, the druid having alot of free time to CC me). Is it better to just get on the druid and have my druid try and CC their warrior as much as possible to avoid the MS mana sink? He was also maces, which as much as I hate to admit (I'm not a fan of the random mace stun mechanic, my main being a healer) maces seem to be a far superior choice in this bracket, me currently having swords.
Warlock/healer teams on the other hand swords are exelent at brusting down a pet with zero resil, thus we weren't having much trouble with these.
dru/war vs dru/war. Both warriors should stay on the druids....if any warrior dont stay on the druid...then that druid can do free CC and your team may lose easily and faster than you suppose to.
If you don't have the 4 set glad bonus (either you or the druid) then you will likely crushed in Mirror match-ups if they do, but yes stay on their druid, but without those bonuses you have a big uphill battle.
I am currently lvling a Warrior to use as my pvp toon (I've always been more focused on PvE as I raid with a combat swords rogue), and I'm looking for some input as to a viable spec for when I hit 70 and start doing arenas and bgs. I'm Arms specced now, but I went most of 1-60 as DW (I have found that I like it better than using a 2hander). So my question is this:
Is Fury or an Arms/Fury DW hybrid spec viable for use in PvP? or am I just kidding myself? I am a Master Hammersmith, so I will be able to have a t1 BS weapon ready to go once I hit 70. Any help/comments would be greatly appreciated.
The debuff is everything. Sorry to say but that's how it goes. Add in there that improved intercept and second wind are both high arms talents that preclude one from taking Bloodthirst. Now there are some tradeoffs between things like imp hamstring, weapon mastery, imp slam, etc. But you must must must have MS, improved intercept and second wind. Those 3 are the holy trinity imo of pvp warrior skills.
Deep thunder, although being outscaled by new weapons, is still a hard hitter at 3.80 speed and the proc on it is always nice.
If you're fighting a rogue that you HAD to tclap in the first place (i.e AR+evasion up), going zerker is the dumbest thing you can do. Sword/board in battle/defensive crushes rogues, you can pop bleeds, revenge/overpower, Tclap, demo, disarm, rend. You gain whirlwind and 3% crit in zerker while taking 20% more damage than in defensive. It's not a good trade.
So, thanks for agreeing with me since you basically just repeated what I wrote?
As far as the person who said dru/war vs dru/war the warriors should be on the druids, I say false. A druid is going to CC you whether you are on him or not but if you are applying 100% hard dps pressure to his warrior it is hard for him to CC and heal at the same time. One resisted cyclone on you and his warrior is dead.
So, thanks for agreeing with me since you basically just repeated what I wrote?
As far as the person who said dru/war vs dru/war the warriors should be on the druids, I say false. A druid is going to CC you whether you are on him or not but if you are applying 100% hard dps pressure to his warrior it is hard for him to CC and heal at the same time. One resisted cyclone on you and his warrior is dead.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit - I normally play Warrior/Paladin, though I've been trying out with a druid this week (an alt though, so a bit undergeared). Against Warrior/Druid I find it really hard to take the druid down, whereas the warrior can sit on my paladin the whole time, stopping him from drinking, and slowly Ooming him. I think a better strategy is to go on the druid until he runs and starts the kite, then immediately go straight back on the warrior, and apply full DPS on him whilst also trying to snare/stun him so my healer can get away and drink. By applying dps quickly and strongly, I can try to force the druid back out to heal/cc immediately before they can drink. As soon as they pop out I try to get an intercept on to force the druid back to defensive mode before he can properly heal up the warrior, and then if he gets the kite on again I go straight back to the warrior. This way I'm applying DPS 80% of the time rather than 50% of the time, and hopefully draining the druids mana quickly.
You´re pretty straight on. Granted, I´m currently only rated 1831 with my Drupartner, but we´re raising with a 8-1 win/loss ratio this week.
As far as I remember we never lost a mirror match until now.
The key to success imho is to be ready for some switching. If the druid starts the kite, switch to the warrior. That way, you have the benefit of your own druid being literally free to to whatever he wants plus you will force the other druid out of the kite to heal the warrior. Once the druid does this, its your best bet to intercept the druid and put some pressure on him again. This will force him to shift/kite you around, costing him costly mana between bear, travel, hots, cc. Now put the pressure on the other warr again.. And force the dru to magically reappear in casterform and heal the warrior. Repeat the cycle. It´s not failproof, but in my experience this will drain the other druids mana the fastest way possible while yours can maintain some drinking/mana conservation if they fail to do that.
Ever since the new season I've been in the lower ratings due to my team members leaving server, game or just finding a better suited partner. The start of the season I managed to hit 1850 in 2v2 with a resto shammy which took a lot of work and pillar dancing. I found a druid partner who was okay, panics when focused so needs a lot of work. I then bump into a random well geared druid and ask does he wanna play some 2v2. In about 4 hours we hit 1852 rating. 26-2. 2 losses due to him d/cing in a fight and me d/cing in a fight. We didn't even use voice communication.
What I've learned from playing with him against the mirror is if you mix it up a bit it can be quite confusing for an unexpecting oppenent. I found some druids were just so busy trying to get away from me I could just turn on the warrior and double team him with my druid. Its even great if you druid can lock down there druid with the cyclones while you're doing it could mean the end of the warrior. Ofc I'm not saying this will work all the time but it'll defiently put pressure on the other team. Also try to support your druid by dropping a demo shout or piercing howl if you cross paths with there warrior or just popping a string on him. Just try to outlast there manapool vs yours and you probably know this but don't waste Int. Shout unless you're using it to finish the druid or help yours.
Think about applying pressure to the druid whenever he shows himself. The druid is a good fast mobile healer but he is too limited by the GCD. If you are dpsing the warrior and he pops out to put heals but you intercept him before he does much, he will be forced to retreat and you can now go back to dpsing the warrior again, and even more effectively then before. IF for any reason you ever see the druid coming close to you pop sweeping strikes and switch to him quickly. Any amount of time you can spend dpsing their druid with the warrior on you also is golden. Get him wondering who you're trying to actually kill while putting good dps on both of them at the same time and the druid will decide for you who dies first.
Think about applying pressure to the druid whenever he shows himself. The druid is a good fast mobile healer but he is too limited by the GCD. If you are dpsing the warrior and he pops out to put heals but you intercept him before he does much, he will be forced to retreat and you can now go back to dpsing the warrior again, and even more effectively then before. IF for any reason you ever see the druid coming close to you pop sweeping strikes and switch to him quickly. Any amount of time you can spend dpsing their druid with the warrior on you also is golden. Get him wondering who you're trying to actually kill while putting good dps on both of them at the same time and the druid will decide for you who dies first.
Yeah, Sweeping strikes is just golden when you can get it to work. Against a druid/warrior team though, trying to get the two of them together is pretty hard, except for when their warrior intercepts me when I'm on the druid, in which case I'm likely to be stunned anyway. If they do come close together though....whammo.
I play Warrior/Druid on my Druid alt, and having my Warrior go on their Paladin basically guarantees a loss for us. The Paladin is wearing a shield, the Warrior has a 2H and is in zerker stance, meaning my Warrior is doing significantly more damage by beating up their Warrior (and in turn, running the Paladin OOM faster) than trying to kill the Paladin.
Ugg, anyone have experience playing this matchup? This combo just makes me want to rip my hair out and it's becoming more and more prevalent.
Our strat has been to stick on the druid and have the pally help me try to burst him down, it feels like our only chance of winning. The problem is everytime I get the druid in execute range I get scatter shotted or cycloned. If I dps the pet or hunter its mitigated by all the hots and cc they have, and the hunter can just dismiss the pet.
Pummel and reflect are just too unreliable for cyclones, they come out of cheetah and are halfway through casting it. Anyone have some tips on countering this or druids in general?
For reference ~1800 bracket, im 4/5 s1 1/5 s3 deep thunder partner is in t5/t6 healing gear.
Although I can't stand playing pally/warrior what I would do is;
Go hardcore dps pressure on the hunter imo. This should force the druid to heal full time. Have your paladin judge wisdom on the pet, LOS the hunter, and he should never run oom. Make sure your paladin is jonny-on-the-spot with the dispels for freezing trap and he should freedom you if imp wingclip ever procs. His hunter will be doing almost zero dps if you stick on him like this. It will be a long game, and they still have a high chance of winning but IMO this is the best option. Freedom only lasts so long so if you use this to try and chase the druid and leaving the hunter free to chase down your paladin doesn't give your team a big chance of winning.
I play Warrior/Druid on my Druid alt, and having my Warrior go on their Paladin basically guarantees a loss for us. The Paladin is wearing a shield, the Warrior has a 2H and is in zerker stance, meaning my Warrior is doing significantly more damage by beating up their Warrior (and in turn, running the Paladin OOM faster) than trying to kill the Paladin.
Well I've played quite some pala/warrior teams when I boost a druid friend or my brother's druid-alt. And although going for the warrior might makea sense in a way, doing so will make sure that a) the paladin will give BoF to the warrior and b) you will give the warrior more rage than he can handle. The combination of the above will make the opponent warrior go for your druid (no way of being rooted + 100 rage + being able to save pummel for cyclone) and you'll either lose on burst or mana in the end.
Instead go for the paladin, he'll use BoF to get out of your hamstrings most likely. If he doesn't he will get OoS of his warrior and he doesn't want that (since he can't dispell/heal that way). Even though the paladin has high armour, you will be on him 24/7 which isn't the same as the opponent's warrior who is CC'd 90% of the time anyway (if your druid stays far away from you the warrior will charge/intercept out of dispell range). You will win this battle on mana with ease.
As for war/dru mirror matches, this can only really be won by you sticking on the enemy druid 24/7. If you manage to do this well, use pummel when you can - use feral charge when you can't pummel etc, then the warrior is forced to keep hamstring/disarm or something similar up, in any way you are able to cleave/ww or at least hit their warrior. The enemy druid won't pay much attention to it since he wants to stay alive/away, so the enemy warrior will go <60% at one point. Then quickly switch to cyclone + feral charge/bash + cyclone the enemy druid at that point and finish of the warrior (save deathwish/trinket for example, or get a full rage bar if your gear doesn't allow so).
As for sweeping strikes, I think it's not worth the talent point since you will either not use it or you will be far from consuming the charges. Not to mention in higher brackets you will eventually break a sheep or something which will fuck up your match more than it benefited you.
Terrified. Mortified. Petrified. Stupefied... by you!
I like how you advocate doing AOE damage and then say you think the best AOE ability a warrior has isn't worth the 1 talent point it takes to get it. Say what?
The standard warrior PVP build should include both sweeping strikes and deathwish.
Sweeping strikes is an awesome ability, the damage it causes is a huge healing burden and you can get some aoe mace procs off of it.
When we (war/pal 17-1800) play war/druid I dps the druid unless he gets out of intercept range. I don't bother chasing him I just work on the warrior until the druid comes back. You may be able to try the same strat if the pally pillar kites you but I can kill a caster druid inside a 6 sec hoj when im enraged. Make sure your druid saves his trinket for that or hes toast.
Maybe we have just been lucky but I feel like war/pal matches up well to war/druid. Or maybe its just a relief playing something besides druid/hunter : /
It's also great against soul link warlocks who keep their pet close. The extra damage the pet takes makes it extremely vulnerable to a burst. Not to mention SS always hits against rogues with evasion up if you target someone next to them.
I have a question about weapon/specc choice as many others.
On wednesday I'll get the last points to buy the S2 2handers (using Moonclever right now) and I want some help choose the specc.
I have a 2on2 team with a holy paladin where I think I'll have the most use of the mace and my 3man team is a dps team with a feral druid or frost mage and a hemo rogue.
Any ideas?
01/24/08, 6:14 PM
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