Wait what? Attack the Warrior? Stuff him full of rage and an Enrage proc and risk huge burst on your druid? That doesn't sound right at all. It seems like the Druid/Warrior will win the outlast battle and eventually the Shaman, being fully Sundered and MSed the entire time will run out of mana and die.

Not if the warrior is attacking the shaman.

If you're warrior is attacking their warrior he can more then help you stay away from their warrior. Don't underestimate water shield. Stuffing their warrior full of rage isn't much of an issue when he can't stay close enough to you to burst you down.

Unless every warr/sham team we've ever come across just has terrible warriors. It's very easy for me to stay away from a warrior when he's hamstrung/getting intercepted every 15 seconds and rooted otherwise via nature's grasp.

I basically hot up and bear form then make him use intercept and feral charge his shaman to get away from him then switch to travel wait for ms to drop and hot to full again. When your mace specced warrior is on him the entire time it's very easy to stay away.

If we use Hoodrych's video as a reference (which is probably the closest thing to "correct play" as we can get) we see that he shows two matches vs. war/druid. In both cases the warrior was on his shaman the entire time. They are both losses of course (or they wouldn't be in the video) but on the first match it's very close, GC almost died before the druid. I imagine that there are quite a few cases where the shaman drops before the druid. These are top teir players and teams (the 2nd example is Xahlior), I think their strategies are going to be sound.

Which is entirely possible with your 1500 ratings. Seriously what is with all the "advice" and arguments from people with terrible ratings? Obviously what you're doing isn't working, why should we listen to you?

So you'd rather leave a shaman to freecast and drink whenever he wants. I just can't see how that would be more beneficial than hitting the shaman. Druids are able to escape from Warriors pretty damn well all by themselves unaided. Why not just have the druid run past his own warrior every so often with the other guy in tow and call it out to get a hamstring off as he passes by?

Well fine, I'll concede the point however the first two times we faced warr/sham we tried kill the shaman while I kited the warrior and lost miserably both times.

Every time since we've won by attacking their warrior. It could be very different in higher brackets which usually involve better gear.

I shouldn't have made the mistake of saying "You should never be attacking their shaman" I should have instead stated that my team has seen better success going after their warrior because it drains the shaman's mana much faster.

My team's rating doesn't show what kind of gear we were using before this past week nor how high our rating once was.

And my 3's team isn't a real team, we swap in our friends who need points and basically go 3-7 every week (and it's our rating is still 1567).

I don't necessarily feel it's as cut and dry as I made it seem so that's my fault for choosing poor word choices but I still feel attacking the warrior and forcing the shaman to spam heals the entire game is the better route to take. And I feel that way based on my own personal experience trying it both ways.

Well we don't leave the shaman to free cast and drink. I stay close enough to the shaman that I can feral charge and cyclone and also kill his WF and Mana tide totems with r1 moonfire. We don't ever let him drink and we use LoS to our advantage to avoid having the warrior eating me alive.

Edit: This is coming close to a complete derail at this point so I'll leave it at this. I interrupt the shamans healing enough that he can't do anything but spam heals in hopes of keeping his warrior alive. We keep his warrior low enough the entire time that he can't risk running and drinking because his warrior WILL die. Between feral charge, bash and cyclone and faerie fire on the warrior that shaman has it rough keeping his warrior up.

Loderunner is right, if a druid is playing that aggressively on my shaman with the warrior on me I'll just light him up with a full rage bar and call for a lust+NS chain lighting/shock combo for the kill.

Why do people in the 1500 bracket give advice to people ~2000+?

It's possible to get to 2k+ without ever facing a warr/sham combo. And it's possible to be stuck in the 1600's bracket (which is actually the bracket we are currently stuck in, we had a few unlucky losses yesterday and had to stop playing, not that it's much different) and have played that combo 15+ times.

And enough about the ratings ok? I was offering my own personal experience, I worded it poorly but it was just my own personal opinion based on my own experiences vs that team setup. We've won at least 80% of the matches we've played against that team so I must not be as stupid as I seem to you.

Also, I'm trying to avoid saying that I feel like my warrior partner doesn't use his skills/rage wisely which is why I'm reading this thread in the first place. We lost our last 2 matches yesterday to a mirror dru/warr and their warr heavily outdamaged my partner despite my partner nicely outgearing theirs. (i.e. Their warrior was using s1 weapon with 2pc s3 and various s1 gear and my warrior was using his new s3 mace, has full s3 offset, and has 2/5 s2 with 1 piece s3 and 2 piece s1)

I'm guessing he did more damage because your gear is bad and you took more damage. Also, what, did you armory him? There are 3 potential warrior maces that all share the same graphic.

Unnecessary Post, my apologies.

After the second loss yes, I armory'd him.

Both teams did target switch a bit but the two warriors were on each other most of the time, it was easy enough for me to get away from the warrior. These were long fights, 7+ minutes each and I would expect the longer the fight lasted that the more my warrior would outdamage theirs. And my warrior was definitely on their druid more than theirs was on mine. And we were winning the mana battle despite taking more damage.

The second game we lost because I got careless and died to an unlucky string of mace stun procs stuck in caster form with barkskin down. I'm hesitant to say he's not utilizing his rage well but it seems like he's constantly letting MS fall off his targets for extended periods allowing them to be healed easily and also he seems to have a hard time keeping people hamstrung to stay close.

Though he does complain that he's right on top of his targets a lot of the time and it still gives him out of range errors when he tries to hamstring so it could be lag.

I'm not the greatest resto druid but I believe I'm decent enough to get a warrior to 1750+, however, we are struggling. Some of our losses have just been plain my fault but some of the games seem to come down to not being able to finish off a target.

He's definitely not a bad player so I'm not sure why, for instance, it takes so long to kill a pet when I'm locking down their healer for 15+ seconds. And he (at least to me) doesn't have bad gear.

We Usually fluctuate between 1580 to 1670 rating and can't really break that 1700 barrier. We aren't really getting frustrated and we plan to keep plugging away. We get noticably better each week and our gear has gotten A LOT better since we first started playing 3 weeks ago (I only had around 980+ healing and 120ish resil and was still wearing some feral gear). And it looked like when he got his s3 mace on tuesday we were gonna be on a roll. We went 5-0 our first five games against a few comps that normally give us trouble (like spriest/rogue) but then ended up 6-4 for the week.

Here is his armory profile: The World of Warcraft Armory

Is it normal for a warrior with this level of gear to have trouble killing pets in less than 15-20 seconds? How long would you expect a pet only getting a hunter's or warlock's heal to survive?

Our tactic versus restoration shaman + (ms) warrior includes many target switches. First of all i try to keep up always harmstring or piercing howl and "demoshout" on the warrior, so he is forced to completely attack me and supply me with rage or just have a few hits on my druid during the intercept stun(which is normally his choice).
Then I damage the warrior while me or my druid(depending on who he attacks) pulls him behind a pillar so the shaman has to run around the pillar to heal the warrior (and possibly come into sweeping strikes range) - or he goes back to shaman and let my druid "restealth".

So when the shaman healing arrives the warrior is usually cycloned and I start damaging the shaman ...when he tries to heal (himself) now he gets our "interrupt combo" (bear stun pummel feral charge intercept stun pummel) and then cyclones till the interrupt cooldowns are ready again. During the time he is cycloned I continue damaging the warrior which sometimes dies at this point depending on my "RNG" if not he gets cyclone again and we continue on the shaman with interrupt combo...

We continue this cycle until one of them dies(already had nearly "synchronous downs" :>) and off course I use sweeping strikes + cleave if the warrior attacks me and i am near the shaman...

Of course it doesn't happen this way every time due to spell interrupts and cyclone resists(or grounding totems which we try to destroy as fast as possible like the other totems with harmstring or "moonfire rank 1" )...If we don't interrupt the shaman good enough my druid goes away to regenerate some mana while I bind the warrior on me and keep the shaman in combat using throwing weapons "defstance" and shield.

So if we don't cyclone them down we win the "manamatch". We have never lost with this strategy but their aren't many warrior + shaman teams in my battlegroup which is one of Germany's best ones.

Sorry for my bad English skills again and thank your for your input about the torch vs s3 mace thing. I tried the s3 mace for two days now and my first impression seems very good mainly because my enrage uptime seems to be increased through the additional resilience which results in even higher critical strikes than i would have with the torch (without enrage).


hmm I think it completely depends on RNG and the enemies "playstyle"..for example it is hard to kill a pet if the hunter tries to pull it away from you while ice/freezing trapping scatter shotting and wing clipping you and it has already got hots on it(mend pet)...but with good rng i already killed hunter and warlock pets(felhunters and felguards not voidwalkers) in under 5seconds.

PS: Taunt(AoE Taunt/Mocking Blow) is a nice spell against careless pet owners- in the time he needs so send it back to you - you have possibly the time to "restealth" and some free rage on the warrior + you can avoid freezing traps by taunting the pet before you are affected by the trap(if the hunter does not send it back in time). My druid usually goes with the pet behind a pillar where we try to finish it. but perceptive pet owners will already start to summon a new pet when they know their actual one could die.

I had problems with my druid by the start of s3 too. it wasn't because he died too early, but because he thought he could heal me with a HoT here and there and that's enough. Well, as you might guess it wasn't. I died a couple of times because he decided to go for a drink without informing me. I think those kind of problems are typical if you start a new team and we really had a good time after we learned to talk to each other about what is going on in the match

btw: where is the ap-enchant on your warriors mace? he shouldn't go for crit , stack strength instead. there are too many peps with 400+ res where additional crit is a waste imho. But to be honest: If your warrior doesn't know how to deal with his rage and abillities he will not be a better warrior with more ap or better gear. And yes, it sometimes takes more time to kill a pet but a lot of other people here in this thread have allready written how to kill it quick.

Well we communicate pretty well and usually we're on the same page. I always let him know that I'm going to drink but one thing I've picked up from the various warriors in this thread is that when I do that he should really be switching to 1h/shield and going defensive to just survive while I drink which he doesn't at the moment. Neither of us ever thought of this (even though it's the fairly obvious solution thinking about it now). That should definitely help.

He doesn't have enough gold for the materials. Ever since the raise in price to Void Crystals a lot of enchants have gotten ridiculously expensive to buy materials for. He just picked up the mace this past tuesday.

I've picked up on a lot of good tips from this thread and am waiting to pass judgment on my belief about his rage and ability usage. The first few weeks we played together I was terribly undergeared and he was using gorehowl so a lot of the issues with his damage output were due to that I'm assuming. We only got to play 10 games this week and the last few were rushed because we both had things going on and just wanted to get our 10 in.

The reason I'm currently concerned is because it still seems to take him abnormally long to kill pets even when the pet isn't getting any outside heals at all from the other teams healer and also it seems he'd rather save up some rage for an execute rather than keep MS up on a target once the target is at ~50% health. This obviously allows healers to heal his target to full rather easily. But that might be misconception on my part as he said he tends to miss MS a lot.

I just hate hearing about how dru/warr is ez-mode to 1850 and we can't even break 1700. Makes me feel like a terrible healer (and blame tends to fall on healers, I even tend to blame myself for a lot of our losses)

According to the current armory, he isn't hit capped, which is bad.

As a warrior, you have to stay cool even when you're target drops to 20%. I don't use Execute that much because you loose all your rage. And if you dont kill someone with Execute you might not get a second chance because MS drops, you can't pummel the next heal because you have no rage and so on. Then he gets a heal or heals himself without the ms debuff and there you are, teh super mighty warrior with S3 mace (tm) and your "safe kill" is going to laugh at you. I've learned this lesson the hard way and I don't fall into "EXECUTE" EXECUTE! EXECUTE"-tunnelvision mode anymoore as soon as my target is down to 20%. If you keep on hurting him with MS, pummel heals and continue your work, he will die. Maybe 5-10 seconds later, but he will die =)

I also dont like 33/25/3. I really love endless rage because it gives me a lot more freedom to hurt someone with my Stormherald. I was in big trouble with 33/25/3 because I felt like I didn't had enough rage for MS and all the other sweet abilities. I personally can't play without endless rage anymore. But in the end, it's not the talents that win the matches, it is the player. So I totally respect anyone who is able to kill someone quick & fast with 33/25/3 and Execute =)

Cannot justify speccing out of instant spell reflect with Tactical Mastery nor the loss of Sweeping Strikes. It will take a lot more for me to even consider Endless Rage.

Just curious why you have 97 hit rating in pvp gear (two +10 hit BT gems)?

Also, not sure why getting endless rage would preclude you from getting TM. You could go 41 arms, 11 fury, 3 prot, and a couple leftover and get everyting else that's "important".

All that leaves is SS, which isn't as useful in 2's and 3's as it is in 5's (which seems to be your focus). Understandable.

I have TM too, I´m lost without it. But with me, my storm herald and endless rage making it up to 2k with resto/warlock in 3vs3, I think it's not impossible to play without SS and be successfull =) Sweeping Strikes is a PvE Talent for me, useful against stationary or slow moving trashmobs. From my standpoint, it costs too much rage AND you need too much rage to make good use of it once it is activated. Maybe its because I dont play 5vs5 a lot, mostly 3s and 2s. But as I said before - you wont make it to 2k and beyond if you have a certain talent or not.

Excellent question. The time I put those gems in I was decidedly under the specials cap because I was using a Cataclysm's and some other gear that kept me under. We also, at the time, had an excess of yellow BT gems, which raiders were allowed to use for pvp sets. When I finally decided to pick up my S3 Mace, I didn't regem anything, so those are holdovers.

You guys speak as if endless rage currently gives 25% more rage like the tooltip says. I was under the impression that it did not and would not be fixed until 2.4?! SK Gaming | World of Warcraft Arena Ranking shows a few warriors who play 41/20 competitively. Can those of you who have tried it share your experiences? I'm curious if 41/20 would let me do more damage than 33/28 in 3s with priest + pally (2/2 BF + 3/5 2h spec + ER vs 3/5 flurry). Judging by the number of users, 41/20 must have its merits even with a bugged ER right?