Elendril

For 2.4 some combination of JC/Enchanting/BS is correct. I haven't actually compared numbers, but the ring enchants are obvious, and then there's the JC BoP gems along with the new sunwell BS chest and JC neck. If you play primarily 2v2 and 3v3 and are not human, I'd consider engineering as well, because the new BS helm's stealth detection is non-trivial.

 

diotox

Keep in mind though that while JC/Enchanting is best for squeezing out every last bit of stats for your character in the short term, I have no doubt in my mind that blacksmithing will be extremely useful after Wotlk comes out for the same reasons it was useful when TBC came out. Any warriors that are hitting 70 and gearing up this late, I would probably take smithing, and then either JC or enchanting, whichever you like more. I wouldn't want to get stuck having to either farm blacksmithing materials to skill up, or be stuck buying the mats for ridiculous prices as everyone else is trying to catch smithing up for the expansion.

 

Angeron

I think this belongs in the 3v3 thread, since you're not really asking any warrior specific questions. Also 3 points in TM makes hunter trap completely trivial.

@regarding min/maxing your shit: With dual-gathering you should be able to rake in enough cash within a 2-3 week period of serious farming/AH sniping to finance enchanting 1-375(or whatever you need for +4stats), drop that and pickup JC for the BOP gems(could even cut your own epic gems in 2.4!), then drop that and pickup whatever you want. Engineering will give you a return on your investment in the form of primal clouds (as well as a sweet helm in 2.4, current helm comparable to s2). Blacksmithing is currently garbage, but for those of us simply too lazy to reskill it once WoTLK hits with awesome new level 80 weapons, we keep it. Remember that you only have to drop one of your gathering professions (herbalism) to level the min/max profession.

S3 weapons beat Stormherald by a small margin, but S4 weapons blow it out of the water. S4 vs. Stormherald is like comparing an F18 to a Radio-Flyer. Don't forget that S2 weapons are still 'comparable' to Stormherald, and will be available from the honor vendor when S4 hits.

Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.

 

Samurro

Do you rate stormherald so high becuz of its extra stun? For me stormherald = s2 < s3 !

 

Chirality

S2 < Stormherald < S3.

Keep in mind Stormherald has not only a 5% chance to proc a very long-duration stun, but is also 0.2 slower than s2.

To be honest, I have an S3 sword and a Cataclysm's Edge (I use both depending on whether i'm being attacked or not) and I *still* feet like I was more powerful back in S2 when I had Stormherald, especially in 2v2.

Edit:
I absolutely agree with you about the stealth detection. I used the engineering goggles until s3, and won many games by seeing a rogue or druid before they could open. One thing to note, however, is that Season 2 didn't have the huge number of Subtlety spec'd rogues with improved stealth that we see now. Combat was king for a long time, and Goggles were amazing to counter that. However, I'm not exactly sure how large of an impact stealth detection will be vs. ShS rogues now.

 

Angeron

Stormherald is ~40 topend dmg more than s2 weapons, does not cost arena points, has an extra chance to stun, 3.8 speed (way higher autoswings than s2 mace). The difference between S3 and Stormherald is less noticeable (I have both), with the s3 mace being strictly better since 3.6 speeds means more fluid rage generation, and the armor pen/crit/hit makes up for the autoswing topend.

Goggles are good in 2s/3s where you run up against mutilate rogues(who do not have MoD), and druids in both brackets. Other than that, unless you're getting the T2 engi goggles, the s3/4 helm are strictly better.

Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.

 

Chirality

It's worth noting that Stormherald, due to the slower speed, has a proportionally greater chance to proc mace stun per attack (as mace stun is ppm based).

 

Angeron

The difference is marginal in the grand scheme of things, but is noticeable when combined with stormherald's 5% chance to proc its own stun. You WILL get less stuns. You WILL do more damage. You also free up more gear choices by grabbing s3 mace. It's just better. Period.

Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.

 

Samurro

You need more hit, so that isn't exactly right! And the argument it doesn't costs Arena points is a bit fanboy like...

 

Recab

Hey guys, I need some help with Arena weapon selection. I don't do much pvp, so sorry if this question is nubbish.

I have all of the following available:

Stormherald
Torch of the Damned
Season 3 weapons

Which do you think would be the best for a 2v2 team of myself and a disc priest?

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

Liar

That's exactly what he said.

Recab, just read the posts above yours.

 

Recab

The posts above mine do not address Torch of the Damned as a viable weapon choice or preferienciate which weapon would be superior when using a discipline priest as a 2v2 partner. I read the posts, yet there is still no clear answer as to which of the 3 would be superior with my choice of team compilation.

 

diospadre

These "which weapon should I use" posts suck ass, stop making them.

 

• LodeRunner

"Hey guys I'm starting with a healer and we play from 3:07.23 CST on the second Tuesday of every month and play for 33.92 minutes. I know everyone said in every post to use the S3 mace but since no one mentioned having that exact schedule I thought I'd check to see what would be most optimal for such a setup. Also I'll attempt to make up for my own obliviousness with verbosity. Thx!!!"

 

Samurro

Oh fuck sorry, i misread something. Sorry!

 

Angeron

Get any more games in with The Gurgfather Lode? I'm interested in seeing whether you find the comp much easier after a bit of practice.

Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.

 

TheCutlery

Hay guyz I just wanted to ask which weapon I should.....

Wait, nevermind. With 2.4 on the horizon, and the druid set bonus nerf incoming, along with the fairly substantial buff to Holy Shock, what are the thoughts on partners for 2's for Season 4?

My current project is gearing up/skilling up a buddy's druid, but it's quite obvious that's gonna take a bit longer as he should be getting his first arena piece this week. What we've noticed in the scrub bracket is that what really separates a win from a loss vs a mirror is whether or not the opposing druid has the 4 set. Without it, catching travel form is never a problem, they can't get out of intercept range fast enough. With it, if something happens at the exact moment that druid shifts to cause me to be on GCD or facing the wrong direction or whatever, that's it, he's gone, out of intercept range, no catching him. Now that this will no longer be the case, does this reduce the druid's overall desirability as a partner, to the point where another (the paladin, I'd guess) would catch up?

The problem with paladins has always been their lack of a usable instant cast heal, but that has been rectified (or at least, lessened greatly) on PTR. Does this bring paladins back into favor once again? War/Pal has some amazing synergy, moreso than War/Dru in my opinion, but being able to be school locked so easily was always the downfall of the double plate team. Will the change balance out Pal/Dru a bit more in terms of partnering with a warrior, or are druids just always going to be preferable from here on out until Lifebloom gets a nerf?

Shaman and Priests are still not going to be terribly viable (I know shaman can be, but the shaman has to rock, and mine doesn't) I'd guess, so not much point in discussing those. Shaman need a fix in the same way paladins do, only worse, and I don't see that coming out of this patch.

 

Stolidus

The Holy Shock buff is still largely ineffective as a buff to paladin healing. It heals, with 4pc (whose lack of mp5 makes it a bad arena choice), for an amount similar to that a lifebloom bloom would, on a 15 second CD and a 20 yard range (that's a rather pitiful range really). Realistically, that's some pretty shitty overall throughput with the inevitable healing debuff. Add into that the fact that you have to probably expose yourself to mana burn/cc/dps if you're trying to heal your partner with it, and the INCREASED mana cost, and you aren't exactly looking at something that will revolutionize pally viability.

I look as the 4 pc arena bonus as mostly making the pvp gear measure up a bit better against pve gear for those pallies who only have access to pvp gear, because the bonus really just is not big enough to make it attractive to those in pve gear.

That all comes together to mean that I sincerely doubt the Holy Shock changes were substantial enough to increase paladin viability to the level you are suggesting.

 

Samurro

With a >1600 rating i would'nt prefer a non arena equipped druid over any other better equipped healer. I think you can hit a 1800+ rating with every of the healers. The perfect healmate comes not to the table until a higher rating then 2000, imo.

 

• LodeRunner

Really Paladins may have gotten an indirect nerf that not many have considered yet. A Warrior/Paladin team's only real shot at fame and fortune comes from their ability to effectively deal with the Warrior/Druid team, mostly through JoJ. Druids are getting toned down a bit. I wonder if this means we'll see less of them and, if so, that means the war/pal bread and butter matchup will be seen less and less. Sadly Paladins just aren't getting any meaningful buffs for the smaller brackets like Resto Shaman are (ghost wolf, earth shield cost).

 

woeye

Yet I wonder whether the incoming druid nerfs will be enough. Will the 15% speed reduction and the Cyclone range reduction be enough? I am not so sure. Their core features will remain the same.
The resto shaman buffs aren't that great after all. In order to fully benefit from Ghost Wolf we have to invest 20 points into enhancement. Our resto tree, however, is bloated as hell some say we need at least 50 points in order to become an effective healer. So we have to sacrifice healing power for the sake of mobility. Since I do not play on the TTR I cannot say whether this will work out or not. But I feel that resto druids will remain the best choice for 2vs2 and 3vs3.

 

TheCutlery

My rating isn't sub 1600. Well, it is, but realistically it's 1800. I finished last season at 1787 with a paladin. The problem being is that I've basically failed in every attempt to get to 1850 with one of my friends. I have absolutely zero interest in playing arena with anyone who is not in my guild. I don't play this game to play with random tards, or search through miles and miles of chaff to find the one diamond in the rough. I play to play with my friends. That being said, it's literally IMPOSSIBLE for a sub 2k team to learn how to become a 2k team now. There are WAY too many rerolls. I've stated this in other threads. 10 games a week, here's how they break down.

3 games = Easy wins, not even a challenge. These are teams rated the same as us, we crush them.
2 games = hard wins, awesome matches. Very evenly matched, great fun.
2 games = Hard loses, awesome matches. See above
3 games = Curbstomped by people with S3 weapons/shoulders. No chance at all, better to afk out immediately as it's a waste of time.

Oddly enough, the 3 curbstompings nearly always net us near 60 points of loss. You can not climb the ladder with these teams in there destroying any progress you make. I've determined that the only way I'm ever going to be able to overcome this low level reroll bullshit is by pure cheese. Fight cheese with cheese, and the druid is the way to do it. That being said, the guy playing the druid doesn't have anywhere near the spatial awareness and arena experience required to compete successfully at high levels. He can get away with that shit at 1550-1600 and learn from it to an extent, whereas it will not be tolerated at higher levels of play. I basically don't give half a shit about what my arena rating is now, nor what you think of my arena rating now. It's unimportant. What is important is determining where the best chance of moving up the ranks is going to lie, and from the responses here it's pretty clear that the druid is basically going to be the partner of choice until they nerf lifebloom. I'm fine with waiting out the gearing up of said druid. I'm in no hurry, and it's quite obvious that with both of us nearing/in our 30's, we're just not going to be able to compete on the same level of play as the 18-22 year old gamers anymore. The reflex/reaction time just isn't up to par anymore. I'm fine with that, but I'd like to move forward eventually, and if Blizzard won't do something about rampant rerollings, then I'm cool with waiting out gearing up a druid if that's the correct path to go to accomplish my end.

 

• LodeRunner

I wasn't suggesting the Resto Shamans go deeper than 7 points into Enhancement. Instant Ghost Wolf is pretty damn huge compared to a three second Ghost Wolf.

 

malthrin

I know where you're coming from and hopefully something in my experience can help you out. I'm a recent reroll (hit 70 in December) and I just reached 1850 with my roommate playing his Rogue this weekend. We might have been able to do it sooner, but both of us have made PvE more of a priority than PvP, so our honor gear is limited and it hasn't been until this past month that we started to make serious efforts to reach our goal. Here's an outline of the steps that I feel we went through:

1. Get a clue. The first week I did arenas on this Druid in January, I was terrible. We could barely maintain 1400. I had just respecced Resto from levelling feral and I hadn't yet adjusted to hot-healing; I didn't have a feel for how to counter damage with my heals. For me, after a week or two of PvE, I was much more comfortable - you learn about how much healing, how fast, you need to do to counter certain levels of incoming damage; when you can count on your HOTs to refill your team/party and when you need to do more. That was the first step, because you can't even start to make intelligent choices about CC or escape abilities until you know what it's going to take to heal the incoming damage.

2. Get gear. This doesn't specifically have to be PvP gear; my PvP set when we hit 1850 has only 207 resilience. Obviously I'd like more, but high +healing PvE gear is useful too; sitting at 1700+ healing means I have more time to CC instead of desperately spamming heals, it means I have more time to drink before I have to go back in to heal, it means I have better survivability when I only manage to get one HOT up before a Rogue gets back in melee range of me and I go bear.

3. Practice. Ten games a week isn't going to cut it. After every game, you break down what went wrong, you figure out a counter, you go back in and you try it. If you don't play enough games to go through that process, you don't learn and you don't improve. The last 3-4 weeks where we were seriously trying for 1850, we have been playing 20-25 games a week. We usually do this in one session early on Sunday afternoons so we don't suffer too badly to queue times. I can't stress this enough, though - without experimentation and practice you can never improve as a team. Each week we at best do 50-50 for the first 5-6 games while we warm up. If you're only playing 10 warmup alone basically negates your chance to move up.

You make it sound like you hope playing with a Druid will be a magic bullet to get you to 1850. That simply isn't the case - nor should it be. It's a complicated class, be patient with your partner (and yourself). Whether a well-played Druid is too strong is a completely different issue, of course (they are) - I just hope you aren't expecting unreasonable things from your team. Good luck on the way to 1850.

 

Karoo

EDIT: kind of a derail, considering this is the warrior thread not the shaman thread.