Warrior PvP Thread - Page 54

Karoo · 03/26/08, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Warr/Druid- Currently lose this more than we win. I'd say about a 40% success rate. It's fun running into people here on the boards. I ran into Tigs and his Druid and went 1-1 versus them. The best Druids are the ones that stay outside Shock range and actively watch for Grounding Totems. Many times casters will cast a spell and, thinking it went off, go do something else. As Gurg put it, "It takes their brain a second or so to process that their spell did, in fact, get grounded, and that extra window allows me to shock again". Good druids, and casters in general, will be aware of the totem and just chain cast whatever it was they were doing. This matchup should be a lot more favorable to us now in 2.4

I played a few matches last night, two of which were against War/Sham and I can say this. 2.4 Makes it much harder for druid/warrior (my comp). The movement speed nerf hurts... a lot... and the fact that I have to be in shock range to cyclone also hurts... a lot.

We went 1-1 last night with both matches lasting forever. I had to play so defensively to not be killed and still keep my warrior up that I wasn't even able to consistenly r1 moonfire windfury totem. This is a very touch matchup now, whereas before 2.4 I could basically let my warrior beat on their warrior the entire time while LoS and rooting their warrior then moonfiring and cycloning the shaman. I can't reliably cyclone a shaman at all anymore unless they are busy trying to keep their partner up and can't waste a GCD shocking me or I get a feral charge off on a heal.

It's certainly a good matchup now, as it is far more unforgiving for the druid/warrior team (the match cannot be reset nearly as easily as before the patch).

woeye · 03/26/08, 10:27 AM

Finally a druid who admits that his class had some advantages over shamans. Mind you, I did not say overpowered. But your statement "It's certainly a good matchup now, as it is far more unforgiving for the druid/warrior team (the match cannot be reset nearly as easily as before the patch)." is the key point here imho.
What about paladins? How do they do now with warriors in 2vs2?

Talaryn · 03/26/08, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Warr/Druid- Currently lose this more than we win. I'd say about a 40% success rate. It's fun running into people here on the boards. I ran into Tigs and his Druid and went 1-1 versus them. The best Druids are the ones that stay outside Shock range and actively watch for Grounding Totems. Many times casters will cast a spell and, thinking it went off, go do something else. As Gurg put it, "It takes their brain a second or so to process that their spell did, in fact, get grounded, and that extra window allows me to shock again". Good druids, and casters in general, will be aware of the totem and just chain cast whatever it was they were doing. This matchup should be a lot more favorable to us now in 2.4

I've yet to play a Shaman/Warrior team in 2.4, so it should be interesting to say the least... Kharoo's experience points to good news for you, and bad news for me

. Previously my matchups (beyond Limewire) have been cases of "wear-down shaman, hit wf/grounding totems" and then gib whoever presents themselves as a target. Perhaps I should pick up a Shaman.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Rogue/Druid- Totally depends on the skill of the Druid. We had a few AWFUL matches in Lordaeron where the Druid was outranging everything and just chain CCing me. I think he innervated himself and ran out of range, so there was no purging either. Again, this matchup will also be more favorable to us in 2.4. It's fun also to see the stupid Rogues who blind me when I am on DR from Cyclone, only for it to last all of two seconds. I can save my trinket for the next blind a minute and a half later.

Strangely we haven't hit any of the high rated Rogue/Druid teams and have always steamrolled it, so I've never seen this combo as a threat. Again the Cyclone range thing will work out in your favour here, and shouldn't really affect War/Dru.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Lock/Druid- Curse of Tongues just plain hurts. I can take this team apart with Rogue/Disc Priest but I think either we didn't face too many or I'm mentally blocking out the pain.

Definitely a pain for any comp and I can't even imagine playing it with a healer that needs to cast... agh. To me at least, it seems that a sunder stack wf gib strategy on the warlock is the best bet... Make that Druid's mana bar hurt. Generally we are able to wear their Druid's mana faster than they can wear ours, with some clever hamstrings (on pet) and occasional pet kills.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Lock/Rogue- They heavily CC my Shaman and try to kill me. The only way for me to win is to play very defensively at the start, wearing down the Rogue. I played a matchup of this where I intervened my heavily CCed Shaman and took his Blind. That was pretty sweet. Mostly this is an uphill battle and I don't see it changing.

Usually ends with the lock/rogue CCing me and DC/Stun/ShS to own my Druid, good defensive play on the rogue with LoS is what wins it for us, seems that way for you as well.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Hunter/Healer- A long, drawn out mana war. If my Shaman can outlast the poison/sting/mana burn combo we can eventually wear them down. They expect me to kill the pet and always heal it religiously. Only when the Hunter is out of mana can I kill the damn thing, and with no mana he has to try and go drink before he can res it. These matches can take 20 minutes apiece.

These are long for us as well, I usually ignore the pet because my Druid spends the majority of the match in Bear. I stick on the hunter and drain his/healer's mana bars - my Druid eats traps when he can, it's usually GG since the Hunter can't get range enough to keep sustained damage on me; my druid exploits LoS to the max.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

We didn't face a lot of Mages but it's pretty hard for a mage to successfully Poly me with the way Shamans can interrupt. All in all I really enjoy Warrior/Shaman, as it feels most natural to me. This could be a holdover from my Arathi Basin Warlord Grind days, but I'm a sucker for Windfury and Bloodlust.

Any mage match is a bit dicey if they're skilled, but good use and timing of spell reflect and defensive stance always wins -- I never see mage/healer so endurance is on our side.

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

On another note, yeah, Limewire is a phenomenal PvP Resto Shaman. I was struggling with 3s early in the season due to the Druid at the time being a colossal moron. Somehow we got Limewire in on the team for like an hour or two and went up like 200 points.

Doesn't surprise me... Every time I turn my back on him he's out of LoS and drinking! He has unbelievable shock timing and excels at maintaining/losing LoS and staying out of melee range. The match that we beat him and Thanor ended like this: Me @ 20% HP, sword and board out, Druid @ 30% HP, 100 mana spamming R1 moonfire on Thanor @ 1% HP w/deep wounds ticking, Limewire in cyclone @ 1000ish mana, 60% hp. It was so close we just stopped queuing to take a breather. Post 2.4 it will suck worse. We're stopping probably for the season after this week. Hope to see you in 3s or 5s.

Broadway · 03/26/08, 12:11 PM

Classic BG player trying to get competitive in Arenas, need help! The highest 2s I've been is 1650, and then dropped 9 games in a row when I got there.

Due to my playstyle, I'm thinking of going 41/20, endless rage build. I only change stances to overpower and intercept. Most of the time, in between MS and hamstring, I'm going around trying to pummel and intercept healer's heals. I feel that faster MS and more rage can help with that. What do you think? Is it viable to get to 1700s without using spell reflect to its potential?

The hardest time I have is rogue/mage. I usually run with a pally or druid. This combo just kills us. I either get poly'd or sheeped or frost nova'd. Then the mage will iceblock once or twice and the rogue has cheat death and evasion. What kind of counters can we do?

Any advice is helpful. A lot of times my healers are PvE healers, with 100-200 resilience. I used to be at 422 res, now I'm sitting at 355 and a lot more AP. Are my healers holding me back, or am I just a noob. Although I dominate BGs, Arenas aren't easy!

Karoo · 03/26/08, 12:33 PM

Running with a druid who only has 100-200 resillience is going to require you and the druid to play very well together. And now, with the changes to the druid 4pc bonus and cyclone range he is going to need a lot of help from you against melee, especially ShS rogues.

Running with a paladin is just an uphill battle all the way, starting at 1500.

Looks like you have pretty decent gear, but just finding a druid to team with isn't going to automatically put you at 1800+, and if the druid only has ~150 resillience he is going to need to be exceptionally good. Arenas are a team effort.

Find someone you play well with, if you aren't seeing success with a druid perhaps a shaman is better suited for your playstyle. Or the druid is just so poorly geared he can't keep himself alive long enough to make a difference.

When I first started doing 2v2 with a warrior I was getting extremely frustrated that we could barely stay above 1525. This was about a month and a half ago (Well into season 3) Then I removed myself from the situation and looked at the bigger picture. How much success would I expect to see when I'm trying to do arenas with a warrior using gorehowl with no enchant and myself in healign gear that put me at +1000 healing (quite low) and only 120 resillience.

Stick with it, play a lot of games and watch videos. There are a ton of great videos to watch. Especially the Hoodrychbang 2v2 video(s). Even I watch those to give pointers to my warrior if I feel he's doing something wrong.

Broadway · 03/26/08, 12:47 PM

Interesting. I can see how a druid and a warrior is a great combo. But can you tell me what a pally lacks that makes it a bad combo? Also, what can a shaman bring to the table that is better than a pally?

One of the hardest things for me to do each game is picking the right target. There is very little room for error as it seems and hitting the wrong target due to inexperience is rough. I think there's a lot of improvements to be made...we don't even use voice chat.

Karoo · 03/26/08, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Broadway

Interesting. I can see how a druid and a warrior is a great combo. But can you tell me what a pally lacks that makes it a bad combo? Also, what can a shaman bring to the table that is better than a pally?

One of the hardest things for me to do each game is picking the right target. There is very little room for error as it seems and hitting the wrong target due to inexperience is rough. I think there's a lot of improvements to be made...we don't even use voice chat.

The only thing paladins offer you is a defensive dispel and BoF/BoP. At the cost of lack of mobility and being easily succeptible school locks.

Every other healer save a priest can abolish poison so that's no loss. Sure a paladin can cleanse sheep/frost nova. But a shaman can ground/ES poly and purge shields. The ability to purge shields is a huge boon for your rage generation.

Shaman also bring to the table tremor totem, instant ghost wolf (if specced) and most importantly, Windfury. A well played shaman offers you, as a warrior, way more utility than a Paladin in 2's.

This is just my opinion. I do not play a shaman, paladin or warrior and the other people here who do can probably offer more insight and cover issues I may have missed.

Talaryn · 03/26/08, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Broadway

Classic BG player trying to get competitive in Arenas, need help! The highest 2s I've been is 1650, and then dropped 9 games in a row when I got there.

Due to my playstyle, I'm thinking of going 41/20, endless rage build. I only change stances to overpower and intercept. Most of the time, in between MS and hamstring, I'm going around trying to pummel and intercept healer's heals. I feel that faster MS and more rage can help with that. What do you think? Is it viable to get to 1700s without using spell reflect to its potential?

The hardest time I have is rogue/mage. I usually run with a pally or druid. This combo just kills us. I either get poly'd or sheeped or frost nova'd. Then the mage will iceblock once or twice and the rogue has cheat death and evasion. What kind of counters can we do?

Any advice is helpful. A lot of times my healers are PvE healers, with 100-200 resilience. I used to be at 422 res, now I'm sitting at 355 and a lot more AP. Are my healers holding me back, or am I just a noob. Although I dominate BGs, Arenas aren't easy!

Versus Mage spell reflect can be a real lifesaver when keeping the rogue off of your healer (among most important things to do, the other is continuous DPS, long as you're killing something, they can't heal it back, you can).

41/20 is very viable though. I've used it to 2050+ successfully, but as you start to "peak" you really can't afford to not add the "finesse" of quick switch disarms, spell reflects, intervenes, etc...

I won't mention Shaman, Paladin partners, that's been discussed enough.

Chirality · 03/26/08, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Karoo

The only thing paladins offer you is a defensive dispel and BoF/BoP. At the cost of lack of mobility and being easily succeptible school locks.

Every other healer save a priest can abolish poison so that's no loss. Sure a paladin can cleanse sheep/frost nova. But a shaman can ground/ES poly and purge shields. The ability to purge shields is a huge boon for your rage generation.

Shaman also bring to the table tremor totem, instant ghost wolf (if specced) and most importantly, Windfury. A well played shaman offers you, as a warrior, way more utility than a Paladin in 2's.

This is just my opinion. I do not play a shaman, paladin or warrior and the other people here who do can probably offer more insight and cover issues I may have missed.

Not only do Shaman bring instant Ghost Wolf, but also half-reduction snares now. a 0/20/41 shaman will be all-but-killable to melee. They'll be able to escape easily now, when previously they could not.

Between purges, groundings, ES, windfury, and escapability...Shaman/Warrior will be the new druid/warrior.

Angeron · 03/27/08, 12:32 AM

Shamans are much better as 2s partners than previously, but they still retain their tremendous weaknesses. Easy to CC, easy to lockdown, completely shut down by rogues, crushed by warlocks. 2dps still rapes war/sham face but incredibly defensive play will win you games. Druid/war is still 'overall' better due to druid survivability. On the other hand shaman/war can make druid/x pay through the nose for any mistakes they make in the mana war at this point and reset fights just as well if not better if you (the warrior) time intercept+int shout well enough.

• LodeRunner · 03/27/08, 12:56 AM

I don't see how rogues totally shut them down anymore with half duration on crippling and... doesn't Poison Cleansing Totem tick faster too?

woeye · 03/27/08, 2:27 AM

No, Tremor Totem, the fear braker, pulses faster now. Not though Poison Cleansing.

• Elendril · 03/27/08, 2:44 AM

Poison cleansing totem only has a 1s global now, however, so you can get poisons off half a second faster spamming it :-P

Broadway · 03/27/08, 3:36 AM

Originally Posted by Talaryn

Versus Mage spell reflect can be a real lifesaver when keeping the rogue off of your healer (among most important things to do, the other is continuous DPS, long as you're killing something, they can't heal it back, you can).

41/20 is very viable though. I've used it to 2050+ successfully, but as you start to "peak" you really can't afford to not add the "finesse" of quick switch disarms, spell reflects, intervenes, etc...

I won't mention Shaman, Paladin partners, that's been discussed enough.

Initial impressions of 41/20 is very positive. The rage generation is very noticeable. Although I don't even try to SR, Intervene, or disarm, the rage lets me do MS (5 sec), Ham, WW and Pummel consistently. Won two games against a shaman/war combo where they both had S3 shoulders (ebay??).

Talaryn · 03/27/08, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Broadway

Initial impressions of 41/20 is very positive. The rage generation is very noticeable. Although I don't even try to SR, Intervene, or disarm, the rage lets me do MS (5 sec), Ham, WW and Pummel consistently. Won two games against a shaman/war combo where they both had S3 shoulders (ebay??).

A lot of 2k players get it in other brackets (maybe carried in 5s), win trade, or queue-dodge to get their shoulders.

I'd also recommend forgetting about Imp. MS and maxing out Imp. 2H, Blood Frenzy, Imp. Hamstring, Anger Mgmt if you haven't. To me, at least, those seem like the bigger bang for your buck. How are your ratings coming?

As for my impression of 2v2 post-druid-nerf: OUCH... Paladin Warrior (Brewkz/Tugget for those in Stormstrike) managed to shut us down *hard* twice and barely take us down the third round. Druid escapes are really hampered by the move speed nerf, and holy shock saves low-health targets really well.

So far other comps are about previous difficulty (no Warr/Shams yet, but I'm nearly dreading it), Druid has to change up strategy, however.

Broadway · 03/27/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Talaryn

A lot of 2k players get it in other brackets (maybe carried in 5s), win trade, or queue-dodge to get their shoulders.

I'd also recommend forgetting about Imp. MS and maxing out Imp. 2H, Blood Frenzy, Imp. Hamstring, Anger Mgmt if you haven't. To me, at least, those seem like the bigger bang for your buck. How are your ratings coming?

As for my impression of 2v2 post-druid-nerf: OUCH... Paladin Warrior (Brewkz/Tugget for those in Stormstrike) managed to shut us down *hard* twice and barely take us down the third round. Druid escapes are really hampered by the move speed nerf, and holy shock saves low-health targets really well.

So far other comps are about previous difficulty (no Warr/Shams yet, but I'm nearly dreading it), Druid has to change up strategy, however.

Really? I feel like the 1 second off cooldown is a big boon. I have 1/1 anger mgmt, 2/3 impr ham, and 2/2 blood frenzy. I played 7 games last night, won 6 and went up to 1644. I know I know, it's still really low comparably, but there is a lot of room for improvement. I couldn't find a shaman, so I picked up a random pally w/ 200 resilience.

We didn't face any rogue/mage teams, it was mostly DPS + healer. But I was able to kill Shamans, Druids and Priests a lot easier with this new build. The only loss came to a shammy/war, where after about 10 minutes, I finally killed the shaman, but the war killed me and my pally got the war down to 400 hp before he was executed. Rough. Seriously, I rather try to kill a druid than a mail and shield wearing shaman LoSing me around pillars for 10 min.

The big thing I miss is the disarm talent. Is there anything I can do while disarmed? Can I switch in another weapon?

Rub · 03/27/08, 2:23 PM

Originally Posted by Broadway

The big thing I miss is the disarm talent. Is there anything I can do while disarmed? Can I switch in another weapon?

Bring another weapon with a weapon chain and if you are fast enough switch to it before getting disarmed. Then switch back to your main weapon after the debuff is gone. You can still pummel/shield bash while disarmed, along with the usual refresh shouts, apply piercing, demo, TC.

Broadway · 03/27/08, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rub

Bring another weapon with a weapon chain and if you are fast enough switch to it before getting disarmed. Then switch back to your main weapon after the debuff is gone. You can still pummel/shield bash while disarmed, along with the usual refresh shouts, apply piercing, demo, TC.

Hm, how would I know he is going to disarm? Look for the defensive stance shield pop on top of his head? That's pretty wicked. The worst was when I went to execute my target and was disarmed.

I did not know you can pummel while disarmed, that's pretty key.

Rub · 03/27/08, 2:33 PM

Yes, look for the defensive stance animation.

Angeron · 03/27/08, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Talaryn

A lot of 2k players get it in other brackets (maybe carried in 5s), win trade, or queue-dodge to get their shoulders.

I'd also recommend forgetting about Imp. MS and maxing out Imp. 2H, Blood Frenzy, Imp. Hamstring, Anger Mgmt if you haven't. To me, at least, those seem like the bigger bang for your buck. How are your ratings coming?

As for my impression of 2v2 post-druid-nerf: OUCH... Paladin Warrior (Brewkz/Tugget for those in Stormstrike) managed to shut us down *hard* twice and barely take us down the third round. Druid escapes are really hampered by the move speed nerf, and holy shock saves low-health targets really well.

So far other comps are about previous difficulty (no Warr/Shams yet, but I'm nearly dreading it), Druid has to change up strategy, however.

Yeah there are several amazing paladins on rampage who give us tough games consistantly and the post-patch holy-shock makes me cringe when I get Hojed with MS @ 3seconds left. Paladins are still weak as warrior partners vs. hunters and warlocks, but very strong vs. warrior/x (where x!=paladin or warlock).

As for rogues still locking down shamans: still happens, poison cleansing change is nice but shamans are still rootable so rogue+druid is a fucking nightmare still, especially with the regen changes buffing the everliving crap out of dreamstate regen.

Morsexy · 03/27/08, 10:51 PM

Couple of the Paladins in Deathwish just will not die!

As for the weapon switch, should be fairly obviously when the warrior all of a sudden is up in your face with a huge shield above his head.

• LodeRunner · 03/28/08, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Morsexy

Couple of the Paladins in Deathwish just will not die!

As for the weapon switch, should be fairly obviously when the warrior all of a sudden is up in your face with a huge shield above his head.

Not necessarily. There are plenty of times vs certain comps I will stay in Battle/Berserker stance to Hamstring an enemy Warrior. I have Tactical Mastery and when I disarm it's pretty much instantaneous. There really isn't enough time to react when I mash Defensive Stance --> Disarm.