Warrior PvP Thread - Page 61

Bula · 05/02/08, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by Blackburn

Not every high rated player chooses to sell points and I spit on all those that do. All point sellers and buyers should be banned since Blizzard seems incapable (or doesn't care enough) to do something about it. But this thread is not the place for that discussion so I'll leave it at that...

Not debating the merits of it, just simply stating that 4k gold for someone who wanted the gear is not a barrier. Personally I have never and don't think I will be but that is not the discussion.

Karoo · 05/02/08, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bula

Not debating the merits of it, just simply stating that 4k gold for someone who wanted the gear is not a barrier. Personally I have never and don't think I will be but that is not the discussion.

Actually 4k gold is quite a barrier to most people who might want the gear. Otherwise everyone would just be spending ~600g a week for 1200 arena points. (I understand some servers would see a much larger price tag on that many arena points)

At that rate 4k gold would get you ~7500 arena points. And in the process your rating would be over 2k as well. And, especially for a more casual player 600g a week seems a much less daunting task than a frontloaded 4k gold

Bula · 05/02/08, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Karoo

Actually 4k gold is quite a barrier to most people who might want the gear. Otherwise everyone would just be spending ~600g a week for 1200 arena points. (I understand some servers would see a much larger price tag on that many arena points)

At that rate 4k gold would get you ~7500 arena points. And in the process your rating would be over 2k as well. And, especially for a more casual player 600g a week seems a much less daunting task than a frontloaded 4k gold

We're discussing point selling warriors buying a belt of red battle not the cost of buying arena points... sigh.

Derion · 05/02/08, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

Yeah. Frankly I'll still most likely go Surefooted + AP/Run meta unless something huge changes because the offensive stats are worth it to me. For comparison:

Option A Swift Skyfire + Surefooted
5% Root/Snare Resistance
Minor Run Speed
24 Attack Power
10 Hit Rating

Option B Enigmatic Skyfire + Boar's/Cat's
5% Root/Snare Resistance
Minor Run Speed
9 Stamina (or 6 agility)
12 Critical Strike Rating

I like the attack power and the hit rating vs mages. I am also likely to swap out some PvP stuff for PvE gear and there's no guarantee the stuff I swap on will have +hit.

I agree A is better between those 2, but what do you think about

Option C Relentless Earthstorm Diamond + Boar's/Cat's
3% increased crit damage
Minor Run Speed
9 Stamina (or 6 agility)
12 agility

• LodeRunner · 05/02/08, 7:04 PM

The RED is not a good gem for Warriors to use in PvP settings, chiefly because of the existence of Resilience. We've covered this. Option A still wins.

thebuddha · 05/03/08, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by LodeRunner

The RED is not a good gem for Warriors to use in PvP settings, chiefly because of the existence of Resilience. We've covered this. Option A still wins.

I don't really agree with this generalization. Would the gem be better if resilience didn't exist? Sure, but just because resilience exists doesn't make it not a viable choice for metagem.

I would say that it depends more on your goals and team composition. I can't speak for all warriors in all situations but I know that for my composition (war/priest playing at 2000-2100) after switching to more crit along with the new metagem we had better success with teams that were consistently beating us like druid/x though we still struggle against those matchups.

Our general strat is to go all out on the druid with DPS help from my priest partner (he's tri-spec). We found that most of our wins are a result of a good series of crits combined with mace stuns and blackout procs; sustained damage doesn't really matter since if we don't win the game in the beginning we almost always lose. Why not put ourselves in a position to get "lucky" with most potential burst? 3% could mean the difference between execute range or not.

My current gear for reference (~37% crit in zerker): The World of Warcraft Armory

Angeron · 05/03/08, 12:39 AM

Not being hitcapped is an enormous loss in effective dps, 4.25% hit is a glaring signal that you don't know what you're talking about. RED is a pve gem until s4, when going with surefooted/ap/runspeed still wins thanks to itemization points and the fact that you can't get runspeed AND 5% root/snare resist without having a meta of one type and boot enchant of the other.

Don't be a noob: hitcap > crit, hitcap > ap. hitcap=runspeed>root/snare resist>crit=ap>3%crit dmg.

thebuddha · 05/03/08, 7:59 AM

Originally Posted by Angeron

Not being hitcapped is an enormous loss in effective dps, 4.25% hit is a glaring signal that you don't know what you're talking about. RED is a pve gem until s4, when going with surefooted/ap/runspeed still wins thanks to itemization points and the fact that you can't get runspeed AND 5% root/snare resist without having a meta of one type and boot enchant of the other.

Don't be a noob: hitcap > crit, hitcap > ap. hitcap=runspeed>root/snare resist>crit=ap>3%crit dmg.

I was planning on picking up Red Belt of Battle, though doesn't really make a different for my point.

RootBreaker · 05/03/08, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Angeron

RED is a pve gem until s4, when going with surefooted/ap/runspeed still wins thanks to itemization points and the fact that you can't get runspeed AND 5% root/snare resist without having a meta of one type and boot enchant of the other.

How do you figure that? With glyph of ferocity and full season 4, you get 89 hit rating, 10 points above the cap. It seems like 12 crit and 6 agi from snare resist meta/cat's grace or 12 crit and 9 stam from snare resist meta/boar's speed is better than 24 ap and the over-capped hit from surefooted.

Morsexy · 05/03/08, 4:29 PM

edit: sorry missed he said season 4.

Angeron · 05/03/08, 4:30 PM

Originally Posted by RootBreaker

How do you figure that? With glyph of ferocity and full season 4, you get 89 hit rating, 10 points above the cap. It seems like 12 crit and 6 agi from snare resist meta/cat's grace or 12 crit and 9 stam from snare resist meta/boar's speed is better than 24 ap and the over-capped hit from surefooted.

Because you're talking about something that is unrelated to what I said. I said RED will still be worse than surefooted/ap-runspeed. This holds true. Crit/boars/xx/x is debateable, but with the STUPIDLY HIGH amount of yellow misses I'm seeing (Yes, misses, with 85 hit rating, anyone else notice this bullshit lately?) I'll be sticking 24ap/surefooted since I'm stacking crit in every other slot and having 99 hit sure isn't going to hurt me vs. the nine million PMR teams in 3v3.

Giantlol · 05/05/08, 2:01 PM

S3: Surefooted/SSD unless you have PvE offslots(Madness,Stormrage ring)
S4: Surefooted/SSD if you want to go over hit cap(IS, AC decrease your chances to hit, as does scorpid sting)

is what I did/will be doing, though the enigmatic Skyfire does look pretty tempting, I'm an AP whore at heart ;o
S4 will open up a lot of options, I'm pretty sure most warriors will be going enigmatic with spinels in reds and pyres in yellows. RED Is probably the hardest option to cater to because blue gems fail. ^_^

Apol'Yon+Surefooted/SSD. DO IT

ceasefire · 05/07/08, 9:59 AM

If you're not a Raider and simply have access to crafted epics and the full Season 4 suit, your circumstances for gemming are going to be a lot different than a player who can use select pieces of PvE gear (often with no hit rating component, making Surefooted even better).

I think it's a bit pointless to suggest this early the *optimal* enchant/meta setup. Gear will fluctuate even more wildly than season 3 with easy access to BT epics.

Crimsonstorm · 05/07/08, 3:58 PM

Which is better, Crit gems or Crit/Str gems for yellow slots, any thoughts?

Bula · 05/07/08, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by Angeron

Because you're talking about something that is unrelated to what I said. I said RED will still be worse than surefooted/ap-runspeed. This holds true. Crit/boars/xx/x is debateable, but with the STUPIDLY HIGH amount of yellow misses I'm seeing (Yes, misses, with 85 hit rating, anyone else notice this bullshit lately?) I'll be sticking 24ap/surefooted since I'm stacking crit in every other slot and having 99 hit sure isn't going to hurt me vs. the nine million PMR teams in 3v3.

I "missed" a cyclone pummel a few days ago with 89 hit rating and I pretty much put my fist through my monitor. No IS either. =/

Angeron · 05/09/08, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Crimsonstorm

Which is better, Crit gems or Crit/Str gems for yellow slots, any thoughts?

Personal preference here. I'll be gemming crit/str in s4 in all slots, some people like straight crit though.

Renth · 05/10/08, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Crimsonstorm

Which is better, Crit gems or Crit/Str gems for yellow slots, any thoughts?

I gem +8 STR in Reds, and +4crit/+4str in yellows.

I run a 35/23/3 build, so keeping up a crit, for flurry, isn't as important to me.

ceasefire · 05/11/08, 4:05 PM

In the long run it makes very little difference, but the main factor is your set-up.

Examples of gearing and gemming for crit (Battlemaster's, gems, PvE pieces) are 2345 and 2346 set-ups where sustained damage doesn't matter as much, 3v3 with a Resto Shaman and another class like Ret Pally, and 2v2 with a Shaman.

Examples of gearing for sustained damage, or attack power, are drain teams in 5v5, double healer teams in 2v2, and Druid/Pally healers in 2's as well.

nfw · 05/11/08, 6:46 PM

Just something strange I noticed, the "Gore" debuff (a physical DOT) from the talbuks in Nagrand doesn't fade when you go into arena. So it's possible to get it, wait until the last second, then take queue, and break sheep/sap for the first few seconds of arena.

Angeron · 05/12/08, 2:29 AM

Don't be rediculous it lasts 15 seconds.

Cebuu · 05/14/08, 1:42 PM

Due to the recent buff to Endless Rage and Shamans, I have decided to try the comp out in 2's. We pushed to 1900 in our first day of playing, with the only consistent losses being to Mage/Rogue, and a few close games to Dreamstate/Rogue. It felt like the problems with Mage/Rogue were fixed near the end of the night on the shamans end, being more offensive on the mage along with early LoS on his sheeps by me, and Dreamstate/Rogue being ridiculously simple on every map outside of nagrand. We did play between 5-6 war/dru teams over the course of the night(With only 1 loss) and they didn't seem to be extremely skilled druids, thus making it a really easy win. The only real frustration coming from the occassional 10 second disarm. One other scary comp I'd like to mention is Feral Druid/Rogue, as they put out some amazing burst on the shaman.

So what are the real hard counters to this comp? Or have we just been playing really sub-par teams.

hootified · 05/14/08, 2:03 PM

Cebu, I just yesterday started helping a shaman buddy out with the grind to 2k for his shoulders. As far as an endless rage buff, I was unaware. However, beating [i]good[i] druid/x teams as a resto sham/war should be nowhere near easy, save the chance of a lucky mace spec/string of crits combined with WF. I wouldn't say playing sub-2k is [i]easy[i], but there's a greatly decreased chance you're going to see some of the better players that reside at higher ratings. If the shaman I'm helping wasn't so bad, I'd like to try the team out seriously... though I am unfortunately too used to playing with a pally. =(

Touf · 05/14/08, 2:39 PM

I think the main problem with Endless Rage is that another warrior team basically has a full reset every minute due to 10s disarm. So every minute the healer is going to get 2-3 full heals off, which will kill you in the mana war.

Broadway · 05/14/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Touf

I think the main problem with Endless Rage is that another warrior team basically has a full reset every minute due to 10s disarm. So every minute the healer is going to get 2-3 full heals off, which will kill you in the mana war.

I don't think it's quite as static as you make it seem. You can still pummel and intercept without a weapon. Your shammy can also earthshock.

So my question is...You get disarmed, and you switch to your sword and board, if you have a weapon chain on your 1 hander, will that change the remaining duration on disarm at all?

Cebuu · 05/14/08, 3:40 PM

Well there was some obviously terrible druids, but then there were the not so bads. I use bear form as a time to build sunders, to prepare for the burst. Communicate well with your shaman as far as intercepting goes, for bloodlust,trinket,DW, and nukes from your shaman. Have him purging NG and staying as close to druid as possible (whenever possible) for the intervene, to close the gap. If you find yourself across the map, particularly on nagrand, unload on the war and force the heal. When played well, your odds are pretty slim, but I assume thats 2k++.

I rarely get disarmed more than once a match, IF that. I find that 90% of their disarms follow my own. The other day I had deathwish / trinket popped with 5 sunders on the druid and I crit him for 900 in caster form with my fist. I tend to use the time spent disarmed renewing shouts and shout debuffs.