Post deleted.

SO since the level 80 talents are coming out while we're still at level 70, what is everyones ideas on new pvp specs?

Curious about this as well. I'm on the cusp of getting the s4 bonegrinder but if mace spec will be an extra 10 rage, should I be proactive and just get the sword?

Funny you should ask, i'm also interested in seeing what some seasoned warriors' specs will be in wotlk.

I am stuck on my build. Its an Impale/Titan's grip spec but my problem is I have 8 points left. I cant decide where to put these points amongst Deep Wounds/Imp Zerker Stance/Precision/Weapon Mastery.

Here is what it looks like right now. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...10250102111351

Where should I put these 8 points?

What is the ideal hit % for BGs/Arenas?

prsonnally, I think imp berserker stance is a must if you go deep fury, 10% increased attack power at level 80 will be something like 300 attack power, this is like having battleshout up permanantly.

you have 4 points left after that so I'll put 2 in weapon mastery and the 2 others wherever you want: imp overpower, anger managment etc.

Right now it doesn't matter what weapon you get as deep fury is looking like the spec of choice. If they end up making arms hold a candle to fury then yeah, maces are probably the weakest of the 3 types.

Really you should just get two S4 weapons of any kind for titan's grip.

Gemming crits in S4 come from the fact that there is more hit rating on each armor part, thus making the 5% hit cap attainable without the surefooted enchant on boots. Surefooted being useless, you can have the minor run speed on the boots, thus changing your meta gem for the 12agi/3% increased crit damage. You get more benefits of 3% increase in crit damage if you crit more often so that explains the crit gemming.


The reason why crit is valued that much as a stat and not as a spec(like axe spec) is that you don't have really better choices. When looking at axe spec, you have the choice between 5% more crits or mace stun...choice is easy.
On the other hand, for gemming, you have the choice between ~3% more crit or ~150 AP....choice is not that easy and most warrior will prefer crit cause winning an arena match is often about getting chain crits at key moments so they gem for that.

I totally disagree with "1337Beast"
In my opinion "Surefooted" is far away from useless even if you are beyond the "5% hit softcap". The additional hitrating helps to counter some talents and abilities and principally resisting a Frost Nova or other "Root-effect" can really decide arena games.
Everyone will agree with me that "Positioning" is one of the most important things in high rated arena gaming and Surefooted helps you to maintain control over your character. Nearly every class got a snare or root ability so there are countless situations where Surefooted can bring you the win. I really recommend you to get the [Enigmatic Skyfire Diamond] if you decide to get some "runspeed enchant" on your shoes because you don't want to have the 10 hitrating provided by surefooted.

I think the main reason for many high rated warriors to socket critrating instead of strength is that you need a certain amount of crit to maintain Deep Wounds, Blood Frenzy and Flurry uptime in PvP. The percent of crit needed depend on your target's resilience and talents/abilities but I guess you should have at least 33% unfortunately I do not have the Math for this.
Infact your crit chains provide even higher damage if you gem for str but they occur less often.

In the last time I am a little bit inactive in the arena but before that I played with 35.56% crit in Battle Stance and got acceptable (uptime) results. Feel free to check my armory profile.

I gemmed for crit because... it is more fun - but then I do not take arena seriously. If I could turn back time I would also grab S3 axe instead of mace (I am Orc, otherwise sword of course - extra attacks are fun too).

Arms is obviously intended to be the PvP tree of choice though. While dual wielding will have more potential burst, Arms has much more consistent abilities that aren't as prone to good or bad RNG rolls.

Bladestorm makes up for the Warrior's major weakness in PvP at the moment: susceptibility to CC. The current burst an Arms warrior can put out in a few seconds is enough to take most characters to a dangerously low level between DR's on CC. With the ability to get 4 more attacks in 6 seconds with no way of stopping the damage, the Warrior finally has a good way of being completely unkitable and un-CCable for the finishing blow.

The exact damage tuning is hard to tell from just looking at talents. Using rend on rotation with improved rend, trauma and overpower procs from taste for blood will give the Arms warrior an ability to proc quite a bit of burst on a very consistent basis. Sudden death with endless rage and a changed execute formula might be worth using. In other words, special attacks non stop. And you still have points to spare to pickup TM for stance dancing. A fury warrior can't get impale, either.

Fury gets Titan's grip, heroic leap, and some minor damage increasing talents. I'll be surprised if the raw damage from dual wielding 2H weapons significantly outpaces the bleeds, procs and consistent crits from arms, not to mention the huge amount of extra utility.

I too was originally in the Titan Grip camp but i've come around to thinking that the new arms tree, when heavily invested in, is probably the more consistent pvp tree and thus probably the better of the two in a team setting atleast. I'm curious what other people are coming up with for deep arms builds, personally I'm not sure how much of fury I feel comfortable giving up, or how much I would actually pvp in battle stance. Currently i'm stuck at 11 in fury for p.howl, tac mastery, then the rest of the arms tree filled out to either maximize bleeds or pure 2h throughput.

2057 warrior here. This is what I'll be starting out with:


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12253102511301

Healers can handle consistency. It's burst that wins arena games. My comments on some of the talents i picked and/or skipped:


Booming voice: Has always been my talent of choice, among the three throw-aways to choose from. Take whatever you want.

Blood craze: While it's effectiveness has doubled, I just can't fit it in with only 60 points to spend.

Enrage: Nerfed, and RNG-ish. I pick up intensify rage, making Death Wish available for 30 seconds out of every 120, when I need it most for bursting. (And of course, doesnt stack w/ enrage)

Imp berserker rage: Synergizes with Intensify rage, and provides the extra rage boost for your burst.

Unending Fury: pointless pre-xpac.

Parry: it's "meh", but it gets me iron will.


Prot will be very attractive when we have 70 talent points to spend.. The new toughness with it's snare reduction is sweet, as is Incite with it's +15% crit to cleave. When you run into a dry spell of crits you can cleave to get out of it.

Comments, corrections, and constructive flames are all welcome!

Edit: oh, this is the 60 point pre-xpac version. I'll worry about the 70-point build *after* i've had a chance to try the different specs!

2223 here :p.

Initial thoughts on an arms build:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...00000000000000

Focus is to get all the bleed talents + endless rage so we can kill high-armor targets in a reasonable timeframe, buffing overpower to destroy rogues and proc off rend, imp slam if we choose to hit our target in arms stance, with the only "cool" skipped talent being sudden death. Execute is already nearly useless in pvp and a horrible use of rage, letting you use it when the target is at 80% health does absolutely nothing. Being able to get endless rage + sweeping strikes will result in ridiculous burst when you can bring 2 or more units together.

One thing not mentioned enough in this thread is the lack of deathwish breaking fears. Good warlocks and priests who spam already fear Warriors enough - without deathwish's additional protection, the need for bladestorm is even greater. While the extra damage/burst from deathwish is nice, what makes it really clutch in high end arena is the second fear break.

I agree, the way i use deathwish ~25% of the time atm is as a fear break when zerk rage is down (warlock rogue comes to mind, zerker rage being on cd from a sap or something) and when i'm in battle stance for w/e reason (again usually warlock rogue lol). At 1.5 min cd, bladestorm is easily the gap filler in the absence of deathwish. What are you thinking for lvl 80? Fill up fury to piercing howl and pick up the fun stuff remaining in arms? What about the new warrior changes released today? Does the change to enraged assault affect arms burst potential? Is mace spec back to dominance with the addition of armor pen? They seem to be shifting away from the obvious fury pvp warrior build but are they making bladestorm too strong with 6 uncontrollable attacks in 6 seconds? Many questions...

I'm with Squished on a build. However, I'd do a couple modifications. Imp Whirlwind is going to be 20% increased damage. Which is quite a bit of burst with TG. So I'd move both points out of enrage. With that low of a damage increase, you're going to be fodder for 4x rend ticks with its new enrage modifier, without a lot of gain.

(So http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warr...12253122511301 )

Losing deathwish fear break is countered by having 33% reduction on reuse of beserker rage. On top of the increased burst available with deathwish + recklessness -> Bloodthirst, instant slam, whirlwind.

The healing effect of bloodthirst will make up for the loss of second wind.

Heroic leap doesn't quite make up for imp intercept, it's not bad though. Plus the stun and damage of heroic leap will just add to the burst available to a fury warrior.

The only downside I see is that Arms is going to be better at killing rogues and warriors with the overpowers and the bleeds. Which is probably much more useful for upper tier arena than the burst available in fury for killing everyone else. However, the reliance on battle stance of arms will make everything else difficult. Pummel, intercept being a stance away will end up being a lot of stance dancing to unleash overpowers/rends then switching back for fear breaks, intercepts, pummels.

1st: 33% reduction on reuse of berserker rage? I can't find any spell or talent that reduces its cooldown. Could you point it out to me?

2nd: The most important thing isn't bleeds, its bladestorm. A bladestorm warrior will be far, far more effective against the warrior's most notorious enemies - mages, hunters, and druids, who can completely shut them down with good CC, and prevent them from doing anything at all - and like you said, very powerful against rogues. Versus other warriors, I'm guessing fury will most likely be better.

Also, even an arms warrior will rarely be in battle stance. Only to charge, apply rend, and overpower spam on rogues with evasion / hunters with deterrence. Pretty much the same as it is now. Berserker is the PvP stance, but being able to DPS effectively in arms with imp slam is a very strong option versus some comps.

1. As pointed above, it's intensify rage.

2. The problem with bladestorm is the lack of everything while it is in effect. You need to hamstring then MS, then you can use it, so it's effective cost is a lot higher. If they have a movement ability, they can get out of range and you get to run after them spinning. Yes, you aren't CC'd, but you're not doing anything. I would have much rathered an ability that did an AE of like 20 yard range, once, breaks all CC, and you're immune for 4-10 seconds. Something along those lines.

You can also get disarmed during it I believe.

Mages: Blink. You can't intercept.

Druid: Shift and run away. You can't follow.

Hunter: Disengage. Then run away. Again, no intercept.

Bladestorm really needs something like: ability to use hamstring, intercept, piercing howl. Nerf it back to 3 attacks if necessary to allow this.

With the beserker stance, you're losing some of the effectiveness of taste for blood. You have to stance dance for those overpowers. Also for rend, since not only does it do a lot of damage now, but you need it for the taste for blood procs. So it's a matter of you're losing effectiveness. By having part of your talents focused on battle stance, but your pvp stance being beserker, you're splitting your resources.

My point with arms being more powerful vs rogues/warriors. Rogues is obvious. But with rend doing 4x more damage to enraged targets + trauma, you're going to be really putting a lot of hurt on a warrior. This is quite effective against other classes with enrage effects of course, but, warriors seem to have the most amount that I've seen. Blood rage, beserker rage, death wish, enrage, wrecking crew...

Well I'm not sure about how bladestorm will actually function but on paper I can see a few work arounds to the situations you listed above. For mages, any player worth a shit will blink after you intercept, so that was never going to be the time to use bladestorm in any case, but rather once that exchange has taken place, Intercept -> Blink, you move towards the mage (either by running towards him or intervening to a partner stacked on him) and then bladestorm. I know that sounds like a bit of a stretch but as long as bloodrage is up you could easily make it work, even with the intervene. Now obviously if the mage gets caught in a bladestorm with no blink he's going to be iceblocked before anything terrible happens, but atleast you wave goodbye to his primary defensive cooldown.

Druids I could see being problematic as their shift isnt on any kind of cooldown and they can just use it as you go Big-Red-D2-Barbarian on them, however if you play with a paladin, then its "goodbye cruel world" for the druid attempting to go travel form.

Hunters (as far as I know, I havn't checked their WoTLK talents in a while) have no ability to break your hamstring/howl applied prior to the bladestorm, so I'm not entirely sure where you are getting this "disengage". As long as warriors don't travel any slower in a bladestorm there isn't a realisticly reliable way for a hunter to avoid the damage of bladestorm, considering their scatter/trap/wingclip/conc shot/pet intimidate don't affect the warrior.

While these workarounds would do the trick, I do agree that an element of control would make the ability feel more "fun" even at the expense of decreasing its power. So your suggestion, while not requisite for the skill to be useable/powerful, is certainly a good one.

(also appologies in advance for spelling, my work's ancient version of IE won't allow the spellcheck application to run, please stop reporting me >.<)

Disengage

Now, it's not quite as good as the other two. But it's still pretty decent. I agree on the lack of hamstring dispel, but it's still quite a nice ability for that beserk moment.

I'd much rather have something akin to the Beast Mastery or feral berserk. Ours just seems like a 2 steps forward, 1 step back style ability, instead of a clear 2 steps forward which a 51 pointer should be.

But again, the effective cost of bladestorm is hamstring + MS + bladestorm itself. Since hamstring lasts 15 seconds, it should be up so not as big of a problem, unless they have a toughness talent, but you can account for those. Mortal strike only lasts 10 seconds though. So factoring in GCDs, and it's going to be falling off by the time bladestorm ends if you get them right before.

Not to mention, I feel like what warriors needed was a way to combat CC. And so they give us an offensive ability that makes us immune to it. So we have to pre-empt their CC. If you use this to break CC, you're already out of range of them, and you can't intercept to them. So it's more of a burst tool. And I think I'd rather have the reckless + deathwish power of fury.

I want to like bladestorm, I'm just not sold on it though.

"Disengage" is an actual skill that works like a reverse Intercept. The hunter jumps away from you: Disengage - Spell - World of Warcraft

Hunters also have Surefooted which brings Hamstring duration down to 5 seconds. Hamstring's GCD eats 1.5 of those seconds away and assuming you spam Bladestorm right after that you will have the Hunter slowed for 3.5 of the 6 seconds you are in the Bladestorm. But what if he Disengages? By the time you get back to him again, Hamstring will have run out while you have no way to reapply it.

I'd like it if Bladestorm gave you a slight speed bonus while you whirl around, maybe 115% of your normal speed so you can catch up to non-hamstrung opponents. Alternatively, getting hit by Bladestorm could proc a 1 second daze which would refresh itself if you are keep getting hit.

In it's current iteration BS is a really clunky talent.

EDIT: Bleh, I got beaten to the punch. :<

I will almost surely be trying protection for 2v2 if the tree stays as is. 15 second root/snare break that gives 25 rage, 2 hard hitting stuns, pain suppression for 6 seconds every 30, high up time silence and extremely high, 50% crit rate shield slams in arena gear (That hit for slightly less than MS.) come together to form an amazing talent tree for pvp..It looks like it will still be *slightly* less damage than arms, but it gains huge survivability, especially vs other melee, mobility and control. It does lack the MS effect, but most likely, a good rogue partner or an efficient heal partner will be more then enough to make this competitive. (Efficient healer because the warrior shouldn't need much baby sitting, between mobility/CC it has. So a mana game becomes very possible and unlike an enhance shaman on live, it doesn't have the "kiting" issues, because of its 15 second charge/root break.)

Of course, with no MS, the tree could be like Surv/Marks hunters in the arena..Very very strong, but the games last so long no one want to play with them, heh. (and it does look like options for partners would be a lot more limited than Arms/Fury.)

Perhaps I'm in the wrong here, but I'm concerned they're becoming too liberal with talents that reduce snare effects. The list now includes Shamans, Rogues, Warriors, Hunters, and Paladins. When matching up against a class that has such talents and you are not specced as such you are at a severe disadvantage. Your precious 1.5 global cooldown is constantly being used to refresh your snare, be it Hamstring or Piercing Howl. Not only is it a lot more Rage wasted, but it's GCD use taken away from other important abilities. I am concerned we are going to spend a lot more time than we want simply reapplying Hamstring. One quite successful PvP Warrior I know uses the [Rage of Mugamba] in conjunction with the PvP gloves to make 5 Rage Hamstrings. I wonder if that will become even more desirable in the future at this rate.