Beverley

def delete this

 

mdokane

Well first, Mortal Strike and Bloodthirst share a cooldown, pick one or the other. Second, if your main goal in the fury tree is flurry, then only go 30 points in. Get endless rage in arms because you are that far down anyways. Most everyone seems to be doing a hybrid x/x/23 (depending on your piercing howl usage) for the prot goodies or a 41/30/0 endless rage flurry spec.

 

Whatev

What, nobody wants to try FULL PROT? The entertainment value is sure to be enormous!

 

Nethris

Hmm... so with berserker rage being usable in all stances... that makes battle stance + rend + lots of overpowers sound a lot more viable without it being a "fear me!" invitation. And with sudden death giving you 10 rage after the execute, and about a 15% damage boost on execute... that makes deep arms more interesting. So I got a really, horribly bad idea... to try and find a decent Bladestorm PvP spec.

I ended up with a 53/18/0 build. Weapon spec was a bit arbitrary between axes and swords, I think I might prefer the crit with this spec, especially with the new swordspec only proccing once every 6 seconds rule. Few other things here and there that I'm not certain I made optimal decisions on, but that's not really the interesting parts. First off, execute damage buff + imp execute + execute glyph should give some nice burst from Sudden Death if the timing won't rage starve your next MS - if you have long enough to use the buff, you might even be able to wait until after an MS to use it. Secondly, rogues are going to hate overpower on that short a cooldown, especially if you get rend up on them.

However, pretty central to this spec working is finding a way to use Bladestorm that actually helps much. I personally don't see this working in 2v2, as even once you run your opponents low on GCDs, you're really going to want a teammate that can hold someone in place more or less. And we really don't fare that well without a healer. So probably 3v3, minimum. But bladestorm is a LOT of burst damage if you can set it up well. Rogues and especially DKs seem like very good candidates for a dps partner that can hold a target in place, or in the DK's case, even yank it behind a pillar and then keep them from moving. And bladestorm would be a decent way counter-pressure an attempt to focus fire you down, especially against multiple melee.

Is any of this enough to offset not getting those fury or prot talents? Probably not is my guess, but it's getting closer - bladestorm's cooldown may be a bit long. Any idea how sweeping strikes interacts with bladestorm? Or recklessness for that matter? If recklessness treats bladestorm as one ability, that would be interesting to say the least. Should probably try testing some of these things on the PTR, don't have a lot of time currently though.

When safeguard was 60%, Armored to the Teeth was giving strength, and devastate was doing 80% weapon damage, I definitely was considering it - along with imp spell reflect, a 60% safeguard and the stuns, bonus group damage from imp disarm - highly amusing if you use it on a caster, no disarm length reduction then - it might well have been an interesting option with say a 1 healer 5v5 group for utility, keeping people alive, and being a general pain in the ass to the opposing team while doing decent damage. Current form it's back to not being very good outside Warsong (lol @ potential for a flag carrier there though), though it's better than what it is on live.

 

Gink

If I was going 30 into Fury I'd take Intensify Rage for the 20 second cooldown on Berserker Rage, specially now that it's our only fearbreaker.

Edit: Possibly something like this, for arms/deep fury: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Gink

 

• LodeRunner

I am so tired of this. The next person who wants to spec both BT and MS so they can do HUGE BURST HEH and is too dumb to know they share a cooldown, even though we've covered this countless times, is going to get a very mean infraction.

 

Whatev

In fairness, an 80% Devastate, when rigged out in high Strength PVP gear, would probably do similar damage to Sinister Strike (and when specked for it, would have higher crit and be relatively more spammable), and 60% Safeguard is very nearly a 30-second cooldown Pain Suppression, so I can see why they were nerfed.

 

• Morsexy

Well this is their own stupid fault for making our "outs" defensive stance or shield reliant.

Time to change reflect to work like Anti Magic Shell.

I was confused watching the 3v3 tourney some this weekend, and seeing Rhaeygun ( hope I spelled that right ) doing it as 41\17\3 spec. I mean granted hes about 100000 times better than I am, but I didn't really understand given how out of control sweeping strikes can be. Killling a mage\lock pet via that is an amazing ability without sacrificing pressure on the mage since you can target either.

Its pretty clear he could be some bullshit spec and still do well given how well they play together, I just found it interesting.

 

Liar

Isn't AMS just a magical damage reduction? SR actually reflects spells back at their caster which is pretty unique and I would not want to trade it for AMS. For things like that we still have Shield Wall although admittedly it's on the GCD and requires Defensive stance and a Shield. But when you can pull it off, it's pretty nice since double DPS teams in 2vs2 are a bane to most Warrior/Healer teams in my opinion.

That said, I would like to see a small SR change: Make reflected spells count as if they hit you in terms of Dimishing Returns. SRing back a Cyclone is pretty awesome, reflecting Roots not so much. They will just recast it and your SR is on CD. I feel there should be a reward for actually having the reflexes to reflect back Roots and have it count towards your DR timers. Anyone disagree or agree with this?

To address your other point:
That guy played in a Druid/Warlock/Warrior combo and generally the Warlock is the tank there. That means that he will most likely be CC'ed alot and not getting beaten on. 41\17\3 is also the spec I ran whenever I was in a team that would not target me because it was just superior in building rage in the few seconds you were on your target.

So yeah, him being ER spec isn't really that surprising.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

Lithose

Any team where you know you "probably" won't be the main target, ER does a lot more damage, even counting sweeping. You get 3% more damage from filling out two handed, and 2% from filling out BF. The rage gain also makes it possible to WW/MS every cool down, which isn't possible with a classic spec.

ER gets a bad name from 2's, where warriors are the focus a lot. In certain 3's comps though, its an amazing spec.

I actually rarely refect cyclone anymore, even though its pretty easy to do, for this reason. If I reflect it then I'm at 0 rage and my rage coming in for that time is lower due to a one hander, so by the time I build back up for pressure, I'm just cycloned again. Unless my target is low, I haven't "gained" anything by doing it, in fact, I probably lost ground, because of the rage dump, MS usually falls off and the hots heal for more than I gain in the build up, or worse, the target dodges and I can't reapply MS before I'm cycloned.

Only time I use it now is if its being cast on me to block a heal, or against double DPS for sheeps.

If it still counted as a spell hit, that would be great and would solve a lot of the problems with using it. Though reducing its rage to 15 was also nice.

Still, a big problem for me has always been the shield requirement on our defensive abilities. Activating GCD just to use an ability, is really frustrating, they need to prune some of them off shields. (And hopefully take away shield slams dispel, I am not looking forward to macroing in shield slam so I have another instant+Dispel =-/...)

 

• Morsexy

I understand the rage gain factor, and I realize it can be amazing for 3's, but I am assuming you're talking about double healer 3's. I've run Shaman\Druid since early season 2 and that has been my glad team, and 33-28 was far superior. I can see if you know the team doesn't have a disarm, how 41-17-3 can be just as good even if I may not agree. He may have gone that spec for the finals knowing the opposing team wouldn't change comps.

Shield reflect is very RNG based IMO. At times I reflect everything and other times I reflect a dot and I die. I manage generally to land on the better of those two worlds, but it is pretty discouraging when you don't. I realize you can get used to it, and generally work with it (like not using pummel as you swing just in case stun procs ).

As Liar said, since SR does not add to diminishing returns, often reflecting is pointless, coupled with the total rage loss.

I think that it falls under 'pretty cool when you see it' type of spell, and at times (with good timing) pretty amazing in 5's 4 dps or 3's 3 dps, but nowhere near as effective as I feel it should be when you consider what you give up to use it. It'd be nice if it changed to "Reflects all spells for 8 seconds" and has a CD of 1 minute. I do realize however how stupidly ridiculous it can be in very rare situations, like reflecting the totality of the team's on demand burst.

Even then I feel as though this solution isn't the best given how little other classes sacrifice for their outs. Even if they can be Mass Dispelled (A spell I hate personally), they still remove all debuffs. AMS prevents new applications, which is very nice. Coupled with the "can still go nuts and not instantly be sheeped", it is a pretty clear win in my book.

I'm going to just MS and then Bloodthirst ftw .

 

nfw

What about glyphs? I think we get 3 minor and 2 major at level 70.

For a typical Arms spec, I plan to get these:
Major: Hamstring, Execute
Minor: Charge, Mocking Blow, Charge or Battle

 

kamiu

Longtime lurker finally decided to start posting here, so bare with me.

I haven't played PTR or BETA so my specs are basically theory crafting, but i have been playing my warrior since vanilla release so the choices aren't randomly pulled our of my behind either.

PVP specs:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (53/8)
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (50/11)

Thought behind the specs: i'm loading up on crit and base my build on burst (sudden death). Reasoning behind posting two builds is the necessity of Piercing Howl vs extra burst from Bladestorm. I'll have to experience how bad the loss of Howl will hurt. Gut feeling says i will go back to howl, but i'm hoping the hamstring glyph procs will compensate.

Another train of thought is Blood Frenzy vs Unrelenting Assault (UA). Experience will have to tell how battles vs rogues pan out without UA.

Glyphs:

Major
Glyph of Hamstring (Req. lvl. 15) - Gives your Hamstring ability a 10% chance to immobilize the target for 5 sec.
Glyph of Execution (Req. lvl. 24) - Your Execute ability deals damage as if you had 10 additional rage.
Glyph of Sweeping Strikes (Req. lvl. 30) - You generate 30 rage over 12 sec when you use your Sweeping Strikes ability.

Minor
Glyph of Battle (Req. lvl. 15) - Increases the duration of your Battle Shout ability by 1 min.
Glyph of Bloodrage (Req. lvl. 15) - Reduces the health cost of your Bloodrage ability by 50%.
Glyph of Charge (Req. lvl. 15) - Increases the range of your Charge ability by 5 yards.

Lets get the feedback and real experiences on specs rolling gentlemen. I'm very curious how Fury builds will hold up vs various classes.

 

soujeh

I'm also thinking a spec with a lot of points in Arms for PvP, do not see any other way of doing it. 51/10 (big fan of Booming) or 53/8.

Can anyone confirm if the Hamstring Glyph stacks or not with Improved Hamstring ?

 

kamiu

Quote from on ArenaJunkies:

"confirm, pretty sure the hamstring glyph has no dr either."

So you are looking at 25% if you combine the glyph with 3/3 imp hamstring.

 

Angeron

The hamstring glyph and the execute glyph are both excellent, however; I was wondering if anyone had tested the whirlwind glyph to see if it affects the whirlwind on bladestorm? That would make it more generally useful as a battle-ground spec glyph than either of the other two (though at 80 we won't have to choose really).

Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.

 

levk

The tooltip for bladestorm states it hits all targets in range, so I don't see how the glyph would affect it if it does.

 

Davidson

It only hits 4 targets sadly, tooltip not withstanding.

 

Warlike

Point against deep arms builds: Dismantle vs Bladestorm.

 

nfw

I got an immune message when I tried disarming a bladestorming warrior.

 

Dayone

Bladestorm cannot be used once already disarmed but grants immunity during its effect.

 

Emendator

Does anyone see Bladestorm as being superior to a 41/30 or 38/33 build in 2v2? (I'm also considering a 44/27 build with imp. execute, sword spec and glyph of execution, could do for a nice burst).

I mean with all the possiblities every class has of getting away from a warrior without intercept; Blink, Disengage, Pursuit of Justice with BoF, just to name a few, it'll almost be close to near impossible to get the maximum effect out of it.

I do know that you can have your arena partner help you out with keeping them CC'ed, though that of course requires a partner with enough CC capabilities to do so.

If you have other specs you think are valid for 2v2 please post them.

 

Lithose

I was going to try 51+/Pierce+Blood craze. Though, I have doubts simply because of disarm protection, though if blade storm is changed to break roots/snares as promised, I believe I can live with a weapon chain. Unfortunately, the reality thats been bothering me is that we got quite a few new tricks, but rage generation and the need to correct for client/server errors/avoidance streaks (Piercing howl) will force us in to the old specs anyway.

I don't believe non-ER specs will be viable with the addition of more heavy armor classes "viable" classes (Ret, DK.) and the more prevalent shield mechanics. Protection gets by because of the enormous rage gen derived from charges, but playing without ER felt like I was useless against the glut of paladins and or new priest/mage shields. Also, playing without pierce is/was absolutely infuriating, intercepting a mage and having his frost armor place a 70% snare on me, only to have him "bounce" out of my hamstring range is no less that maddening, often times I feel like I'm "helping" them snare me by intercepting them now.

So, as far as I can see, in my opinion anyway, 41/11 are required, you can spend elsewhere, but most of the new toys you have won't be useful because these points are absolutely needed. Anything extending beyond this, seems like it would be flavor based on your partner. If its a paladin (Which have amazing efficiency now) you might want to do 43/28 (Or some deeper fury sustained spec.), while if its a priest/shaman, which both have nice pressure now, you might want 51/XX to help in those "burst" periods.

 

Nethris

At 80 with heroic throw, I might add 33/14/23 (+1, probably in arms) or other variations of 33+/?/23 as possibilities - depending on your group makeup for 2v2, the extra survivability and disruption from prot could help in a lot of the situations I found warriors struggled in 2v2. Last Stand, and imp revenge stuns if you have to go defensive stance, add some personal survivability. Imp spell reflect could be useful if you time it right, though I don't think I'd put points into it if it didn't also give a small chance of annoying casters who are PvP hit "capped." Conc Blow, gag order silences on heroic throw, and shorter cooldowns on disarm could help to break kill attempts on your or your partner, while the burst on conc blow and the added damage from incite and extra rage from improved bloodrage help offset the damage you lose going into prot. May not pan out as a good spec, but has possibilities. I agree that bladestorm seems especially questionable in 2v2 though.

I disagree on non-ER specs not ever being viable due to more plate classes in arena - without a shield, or frost presence in a DK's case, plate really isn't a huge melee damage reduction, much less powerful than what holy pallies or resto shamans have for instance - especially with whatever armor penetration they throw on our PvP gear being a % armor reduction. Priest/mage shields are more of a problem really, and I'd agree that not having piercing howl is annoying in any sort of PvP.

 

kamiu

Regarding spec choice: even though i really miss Piercing Howl, i can't imagine ditching Bladestorm in its current form. Combining them (71+) seems a bit too much for arena play. Right now, the only way to survive a well timed Bladestorm is to gtfo. Piercing howl will prevent 2 or more players to do that.

I've had quite a few matches in 2s - low rating though (1700), just came back from a 2 season brake and i am dicking around with friends - where bladestorm would obliterate the other team (both of them) in no time. Especially when sweeping strikes started bouncing around. Popping recklessness made me follow the carnage with a 6k sudden death execute. Couple that with the MS debuff and you know there is no way healers will be able to heal through such dps (mainly because you can just switch targets and kaboom the other player that is at 30% health cause the healer has to choose).

Talents are ofc balanced for lvl80 play, so i we'll have to see how damage scales with health and resilience. But still: catching a team off guard with piercing howl - sweeping - recklessness and then bladestorm would probably mean instant win. Which feels a bit silly, even though you're playing on the winning side.