diotox

Already mentioned, but seriously, don't even think about using snake trap on a warrior. Not only can we whirlwind/cleave the snakes to get victory rush hits in, but it also is pretty much perma-enrage. Snake trap is my favorite trap. As far as boar charge goes, only use it if you are confident you can use it as an mid-intercept stopper. If you don't, a 1 second stun that procs second wind won't give you enough of a distance advantage to be worth giving the warrior second wind.

 

drole

Normal runspeed is 7 yards/second according to wowwiki, Concussive show reduces this to 3.5 for 4 seconds. That means that if after the duration is out the warrior will have moved a whopping 14 yards (he is NOT in intercept range!). I know runspeed enchants change this a little, but you are having some serious lagspikes if that is your problem.

 

Teez

Any half-decent warrior pops a challenging shout to get the pet on himself to break trap at this point anyway. Not to mention the plethora of other tricks we have up our sleeve ... Barov Peasant Caller being one of them. The second stage is targetting the pet and using intimidating shout, then beating on the hunter. Unless the fear breaks early and the hunter gets lucky w/ parries or other procs, it's game over at this point. The only time I'm in trouble vs. a hunter is against a BM spec'ed one that I can't snare or fear, or against me getting overpowered in toe-to-toe (usually only happens with deterrence hunters.)

Lately I've found hunters to be some of the easiest classes to deal with for precisely the aforementioned reasons. I guess the only tip there is, is to spam the "Follow" command for your pet when the warrior's charge is incoming - especially if you're dueling and you know he's going to use the AE taunt, that's probably your best bet. If you're getting rocked w/o him using that you're doing something more fundamentally wrong, because a hunter at range, with my snare breakers down, and entrapment up, is impossible for me to beat.

 

Midnight

In my experience kiting is impossible in most cases. In duels there´s just not enough room even if it´s started in a flat open space. In BGs fights against warriors take too long with this tactic (even if I manage to kite them) because someone else - be it friend or foe - will most likely join the fight before it´s over anyway. Arenas are way too small too and obstacles and pillars work against the hunter too.

I tested using two feezing traps right at the beginning of the duel and IMHO the second trap just doesn´t cut it. I didn´t stopwatch the second trap but I´m almost 100% certain it doesn´t stay longer than 6 seconds after which I´m unable to use any other trap for another 24 seconds.

I´ve fought against two diffrent warriors now, one is a gnomen warrior with 4/5 arena set, 15 sec intercept CD, the escape artist racial trait in addition to the pvp trinket to get out of entrapment. I managed to win a few matches against him mostly because I got lucky and the one playing the toon wasn´t yet very used to play warriors (he usually plays a feral druid) though. The other one is a dwarven warrior with mostly raiding gear on par with my own. I didn´t get a chance to try against him since I started this thread.

On a sidenote - I used AotM for a bit more dodge last time, do you think this hurts more than it helps due to overpower? Does this differ in arena PvP?

 

Midnight

I tried a bit around with a druid friend of mine. He taunted my pet which was set on attacking him and then charged into my trap. Even if I spammed the follow command immediatly after he had taunted the pet it wouldn´t stop attacking him for 1-2 seconds - too late to keep it from breaking the trap. On the other hand, if I didn´t command the pet to attack him in first place and the pet was on passive taunting it didn´t make it attacking him. So it seems like taunt can only force a pet to stay on a target for a few seconds but it can´t force a pet to start attacking.

I also tested DR on freezing trap. First trap stays 12 sec, second trap stays 6 sec - hardly even more than a wing clip or entrapment proc. So IMHO best tactic is to use freezing trap first to get an alpha in than, if my trap CD is ready, use a frost trap. By the time the trap CD is ready again the DR shouldn´t matter anymore as trap CD will always be longer than DR reset.

 

drole

dismissing the pet might be a better solution, its not like you need to summon it back like warlocks

 

alienangel

You lose 10s of your time and pet happiness doing it though.

Best just leave the pet on Stay somewhere. Unless you're BM the pet's DPS against plate isn't relevant, it's just keeping him in combat, trickling in rage, and giving him the odd enrage, while letting him break out of CC with a taunt. Having the pet out also gives you any passive bonuses you may have, like Focus Fire, Stalker's Ally, and Furious Howl.

Keeping the pet in the distance also means the pet won't get feared when you do. That means you can use the pet to interrupt bandaging if you get feared somewhere. You also restrict the warrior to only being able to use you as the primary target of intim shout (incapacitated, breaks on damage) instead of the secondary (feared).

Finally, if you do manage to kite, having the warrior intercept the pet that's trailing behind you is really annoying.

If the warrior you're fighting is prot, it might be nice having the pet there to eat shield block charges or something, since the warrior won't be getting enrages anyway, but I don't know if that's practically useful.

 

drole

I might be wrong but; From http://www.thottbot.com/s883

Call Pet
Instant
Summons your pet to you.

Whining about pethappiness is silly.

 

Cel

Takes 10sec to dismiss the pet, is what he was saying, I believe. And yeah, pet happiness is a silly thing to worry about. :X

"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge." - Bertrand Russell

Alpha is recruiting... go go.

 

drole

I see, but that shouldnt really be all that hard to plan around in a duel, real pvp is another thing though :P

 

alienangel

Not really a problem for duels no, except someone might have to wait 10s for you to accept the duel if you haven't pre-dismissed, or just got out a duel with some class you want to use your pet on.

And while happiness isn't a big thing, if the 50 happiness your pet lost on the last dismiss is what pushes it from happy to content, your pet just lost 25% of its dps, which will be noticeable for a BM.

Like I said, the better option is just set your pet on stay somewhere away from you, so you can still use it, but the warrior can't use it against you.

 

Maynard

Dismiss Pet is a 5 second cast, not 10. It's pretty easy to fit in if you have to.

Regarding Auto/Steady/Auto vs. Aimed, it's also worth adding that more chances to crit = more chances to proc Blood Craze. Someone is welcome to model this if they desire, I imagine it wouldn't be too hard, but blood craze can regenerate a fairly substantial amount of HP (maybe 280-350ish, depending on gear?). Also, I may have missed something, but why Steady over Arcane? Arcane should deal substantially more damage against plate.

Regarding what others have said about boars, I favour a serpent because the damage of lightning breath can't be mitigated (and I also play with 500ms ping so stopping a warrior mid-intercept is not practical). Dive + Lightning Breath is also often a good tool to force a warrior in to combat via. LOS - run out of their line of sight and send your pet in to get them in to combat asap.

On that note, if you're facing a warrior in flat terrain with too small range to kite - if a hunter could win against an equally skilled/geared warrior, that would be a problem. Line of Sight and infinite distance untimately work to our advantage so removing those two variables should shift balance in favour of the warrior. You could always head down to the Nagrand or Blade's Edge arena and practice there for a little while if your goal is to get some experience you can apply to arena combat.

 

AndrewCarr

CloS won't make them immune to the trap's effect. It'll still proc and the snakes will still hit them out of stealth, unlike all our other traps which they'll resist outright.

 

AndrewCarr

Consider this, you're running at him as well, so it'll be double that. And he isn't going to be slowed, because you're going to have to get to range to slow him with conc shot. So while it might be safe to chase a warrior while they're snared, in practice they almost never will be, and because you're both running at each other headlong, lag + tiny amount of reaction time = you're in range and are going to get hit by charge/intercept.

 

AndrewCarr

It's probably worth it if you have deterrence up, since you'll probably be getting hit with an overpower anyway. Or if you're dodge % is high.

Mine's only like 12% atm though, so I probably wouldn't switch to monkey in melee because it'd be a higher chance for an overpower and I'd probably only dodge 1 additional attack if any, and because it'll trigger the GCD.

 

AndrewCarr

Also, if you're having trouble getting caught in melee(I imagine you would against a gnome warrior with the pvp trinket up) consider putting your Boar pet on stay, then when you get charged you can do something like PvP trinket out of the hamstring, boar charge the warrior, then run. This will allow you to get away without blowing SS and your PvP trinket.

 

Kink

Something I see very few hunters doing is...

During the fight, FD and shadowmeld. Then use your gnomish invisibility cloak and run off to some handy random location.

Unleash pain!

Of course this is specific to NE hunters who are engineers! And I have only ever seen my brother do it (and it REALLY is damned evil, he just vanishes and then appears off behind you pelting you with arrows.) Add in a Tidal charm (sadly now nerfed for targets lvl 60+ though =( ) and he was basically unkillable with his cooldowns.

Shadowmeld + invisibility cloak is very nice! Especially when you can FD and drop aggro like a hunter. Bit sad that it is one of very few useful Engineering items though. But I can definately see some uses for the rocket launcher for a hunter.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

Chimp

Well, why are you running at him? When the warrior is at about 50 yards STOP running towards him and strafe sidewards to reduce the speed at which the warrior is closing distance on you. By moving at the right angle you can slow the rate of closure well below normal run speed. Its possible to do this effectively use this tactic with 30 yard instant spells, so i can't see how it can be a problem with 41 yard insta-cast.

 

Midnight

I assume you´re talking about the Gnomish Cloaking Device? Beeing, engineer, night elf and hunter I guess I´ll try this as it sounds funny. But actually that´s about it - funny. Seeing as I can only use it once every hour it´s not something I can count on for duels.

Concerning the kiting tactic: kiting via range is just impossible in duels or even arena fights due to room restrictions. It´s possible to a certain degree in BGs, but even there usually either my opponent or me is getting attacked by someone else long before we´re done. Besides - even though if neither of us is getting attacked, it´s propably not the most effective thing for your team to do anyway.

 

Kink

Oops yes, Gnomish Cloaking Device. Gave up on engineering a while ago now and as my mains can both stealth I never bothered to make it =).

As a hunter vs warrior its a simple matchup. You need distance, he needs to be close. Work out the best use of your abilities. I think an ice trap + concussive shot is more useful than a freezing trap without entrapment. Other than that the best you can do is wingclip and then scattershot when he gets close and try to get some range again.

Also if aimedshot resets the autoshot timer Can you not aimedshot, steady shot and autoshoot? If you steady and autoshoot you do less damage assuming he will intercept you as soon as he can. If you can get steadyx2 and 2 autoshots then its probably worth it to do that.

I believe the hunter trinket removes snares etc. As he has piercing howl( I HATE this skill!) you can trap him again when he is close or scattershot and then trinket. Get some range. Concussive shot (trap is on DR so 6seconds max) and kite as best you can. When he is close wingclip and try to get range (most likely will not work unless an improved wingclip procs, so maybe spam it till it does?).

Dont forget FD is nice. With your pet attacking him it can switch his target for a second which can be very very useful in avoiding a big MS.

Its all about kiting. You know your hunter skills best, you just need to figure out an optimum order in which to use them and save some for the "oh shit, intercept" moments.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.

 

Adrammelech

The warrior pvp trinket no longer removes snares in 2.1. I'd think this change alone would go a long way towards helping to secure a 1vs1 win.

 

drole

Nvm, please delete.

 

valner

I either rape hunters or get owned. The critical element is usually keeping me at a distance.

Most hunters who beat me
1) double frost trap me.
2) scatter shot, dash and stun me out of intercept. (Yes you can unload scatter shot in my face as a i charge you.)
3) move away from me at a right angle and when in melee range always wingclip.
4) this is hard but alot of hunters arcane rape me at the in between distance where I can not intercept but also I can barely melee.

also most hunters who kill me use aimed shot. On the whole, no one who beats me is worried about mana efficiency. They need to kill me while they have range to work with. It does not matter if you have 60% of your mana when your dead. So pile on the pain while you can work me over at a distance. Fighting a warrior is about racing to execute range. The difference between 21% and 19% of your hit points remaining is MASSIVE.


Oh and most hunters who die to me are rushing things. They try to work me over and go toe to toe. Be relaxed and make me come to you. OH and don't forget your DOTS. They ignore my AC and slowly but surely eat me up.

http://ctprofiles.net/talents.ct?cid=550342

 

Remf

Hola again-

I should have mentioned, and as was pointed out, snake traps are only for when you have range, and a way of keeping it till the warrior is dotted up; it's not the one you wanna drop before a charge or while in melee range. It really is hard to beat crippling poison tho, 12 sec. duration 50% slow (unless you get unlucky and don't spawn one of the right snakes, it happens...) and "free" dot damage... gives time for conc and scatter to recycle.

Note, if you time a FD right, you can also mess with their targeting w/ a snake trap, unlike the others i.e. they lose you as a target when you FD, snake hits and is their new target; depending on how they react to that it can mess up "target previous", etc. Tab targeters are really screwed. Of course, this is trivially easy to work around (e.g. /focus /target focus) IF they are expecting it... but most don't. Mix with bartov trinket for additional fun, etc.

Basically, anything to keep a warrior a). out of melee range b). slowed or rooted c). distracted or d). hitting something that isn't me I consider Good Things. Hunters really are screwed by the duel range limit, so you do kind of need unconventional tactics (or luck and great reflexes) to help even things up.

$0.02,
RdT.

 

Sarana

With a warrior, if you want to kite him, you can start at the edge of the duel zone with a trap, giving you a longer strip of kiting. Obviously, it’s not perfect but you have to make due. Also, as a night elf I can shadow meld as an opener.

You want to try and put the warrior in combat so he can’t charge. You can shadow meld but be sure to keep your pet dismissed or set at a distance on stay or warrior can charge and WW you before he is trapped. Another solution is to time a FD right before the duel starts and arcane shot him before he can retarget. The problem with FD is that it will restart your auto shot resulting is less initial damage.

Sometimes a warrior will try and start a duel where he would be too close for charging but still somewhere around your dead zone. You can start running around the trap and casting arcane shot and what not when ever possible but be sure not to spam any macros which would force your pet to attack or you might accidentally break the trap if he were to walk into it. If the warrior starts piercing howling or fearing, you should run onto your trap as soon as possible if you feel that you can no longer keep enough distance.

When you trap the warrior, you begin your kite on the warrior at the maximum range possible. I prefer steady more than aimed because of my slower weapon, my auto shots scale pretty well and does pretty close damage to aimed shot. After breaking the trap, you should only be using arcane/multi. You can also use auto shot, but make sure to concussion shot him before. Latency can easily give the warrior an intercept on you if you wait for long spells. If you run out of distance and have no way to avoid charge, you want to trinket/scattershot and regain distance in the direction you ran from. After this you have 15 second to burn him down.

Hope this helps.