Are you sure spellsurge can be dispelled? It's listed on wowhead as Dispel Type N/A and it says it's physical spell. Also, I just procced it in AV and it doesn't have a Magic/Poison/Curse etc buff on it. Just tested it out with a priest and shaman and it says nothing to dispel.

I'm gonna hit up +81 heal if it doesn't have dispel abilities.

I'm not entirely sure how the "shockadin" became seen as an amazing pvp build that some people think it is. It has to be one of the most overrated specs. Your DPS is still awful for soloing compared to any other class, or even Ret, and you don't do enough damage in PvP to be any kind of real threat other than finishing someone off or helping on an initial burst - and to do that you've really gimped your healing. Plus you've lost many important healing talents in prot.

If paladins had a chain castable nuke it might be worthwhile, but waiting for an 8 and 15 second cooldown is just a huge waste of spell power.

It used to be good pre-BC for dueling (certain classes). That's where it's from. Could go with T2 style gear for mostly pure spelldmg or T2.5 with SoC and a 2h. But that's when people had 5k hp max in most cases.

My current team isn't exactly fighting for top slots, we're mostly in PvE specs, and generally end up with the "well my dps is dead now" type of losses so I tend to run a 4pc T5 and S2 gloves and sit ~100 resilience. The .25 seconds off comes in handy.

Because it is? Contradictory as it seems, it's a really fun and successful pvp build yet a crappy arena build. Take AB for example: When a node is being pressed I stick by the flag and drop consecrate and blow my JoR+HS cooldown for anywhere between 2k damage at the minimum to close to 6k if I get lucky with crits. All the while consecrate is ticking for a not insignificant amount of damage. If things look to be going our way, I stay auto attacking people for 350-450 every two seconds until cooldowns are back up.

If it looks like healing is required, I hit my hotkey to switch to healing weapons and toss out 1100+ FoLs all day. Sure, I may not being pushing the sick sustained DPS but I'm doing my part to whittle down the enemy.

For me, shockadin is definitely a lot more fun in pvp than sitting back and playing whack-a-mole with Grid while the retarded pubbies you've been healbotting get tunnel vision and let you die.

I agree with Trafficante, my paladin The Armory has been playing with the 40/0/21 spec for awhile now and it's very enjoyable, more so in regular battlegrounds than in arena though.

How valid would a 20/41/0 or other similar build be for doing arena? I was thinking of respecing to that for AoE farming and the ability to main heal or main tank some non-heroic instances, however I give up a bit from the holy tree.

The worst thing about healing pubbies is that you can only follow them around and help them. Since most pubbies spend their time doing useless crap you just waste a whole lot of time zerging on bridges or fighting in the middle. This is why I always bring a buddy or 2 into BGs when I can and otherwise will only touch AV. :P

I play ret in 2v2 and 3v3, and i try to look at it from the bright side.

If you play as retribution and beat people, what is their excuse going to be? Everyone knows ret paladins are gimp, so losing against a team with a ret paladin...well, that's the best thing about ret PVP I've found so far. =)

This is what I appreciate about Ret in BG PvP - complete soloability. If someone with a clue wants to help, we'll do stuff faster together, but I don't require teammates to be effective.


Now if only the other side didn't have teamwork... = P

I still have a blast in AV as holy. I love it. I'm a freak, I know.

I ride to Stonehearth Graveyard immediately and help take it. When I see a throng of people start to advance to Icewing Bunker, I move up there and help take that. 1700 healing in my pvp gear means i can toss 2k fols around all day and not worry about my mana pool. Typically you'll get 20 HK from alliance trying to run past to join their offense. You get all of those.

Whenever they're ready to rush SP, I drop down to the valley to the left of the low road and run around with everyone down there. At the end of the valley, I come back up to the low road and climb onto the hill south of SP and heal from there well out of los of the alliance. Typically a few locks or mages come up and will kill any rogues bright enough to come up and find me.

All those delicious HKs at SP? I get them all. I heal until I go oom, sit and drink and even if the horde get annhilated by defenders there I usually don't die. Occasionally they'll force me to bubble and run back to SH GY and the incoming zergforce. Zergforce meets wounded defenders -> more HK. Rinse and repeat.

When you take SP I ride into the north bunker, cap it and hang out near the balcony watching for people trying to take it back. I heal from the balcony. All the HKs at the aid hut? I get all those.

I typically end up with 400k+ healing done, leading the battleground in HK and usually go without a death unless I'm trying to be gutsy by defending/taking a node against 3-4 people if I get bored.

Now, why do I have fun? When I get spotted by a rogue or warrior, I'll just let 'em beat on me while I heal. Do you know what true fun is? Having a pubbie rogue attack you for 2-3 minutes straight and eventually giving up and running away when he's blown all of his cooldowns to try and take you out. Still makes me smile.

The key to enjoying AV is to laugh at the stupidity that is [Battleground]. Seriously. When you realize that the tard sitting on the other end of that toon that's screaming about Balinda is likely a bloated preteen with twinkie sized fingers and acne that would back a pig off a slop heap you really can't be irritated. You have to laugh.

-Nevermind- Please delete

Because exactly that never happens. What happens is something else with varying particulars but essentially your team looses momentum because you can't keep the puggers focused.

e:

Although I think Solipse had something else on his mind.

You don't need to do damage to make an impact. Your toughness is your strength so you can carry flags in gulch or defend points in basin (I know not exactly glamorous). Valley really opens up a lot of possibilities - you can influence puglets with your play a lot. For example, I used to play alliance, and as alliance always does they rush the two LTs by galv for 20 honor each, it's a waste of time really, what I used to do is get there first, get some agro on both of those and kite them toward IBGY or tower so you can get started on those timers. Don't defend in valley unless you have a very good DPS teammate. Unlike basin, where you don't want your opponents to cap, you might as well let them cap cause they will anyway and then you have to cap it back before it turns, which means killing whoever's defending it in a timely manner.

I think people looked at some videos; I've certainly seen some that raised an eyebrow. On the big scale of things I don't think it's worth it either though.

How does a paladin/warlock team best handle a holy priest/warlock combo that just mana burns/drains?

Make strategic use of line of sight, and/or stack SR, and pray your warlock can drain them first.

Well, I was mainly talking about arena, but I suppose. I don't know, I strap on modest spell damage gear (like+700) when trying to solo as holy, and deal less the half the damage I deal as Ret. In BGs and whatnot, if I'm holy I'd rather just tank (like in AV) or find a warrior to follow around and heal. Or I just respec Ret and have fun blowing people up.

It's more viable in the lower brackets than I thought it would be. My 3v3 team with resto sham, MS war, and me as Ret is 26-0 so far (small sample, obviously) and doing pretty well even against teams with gear.

But yeah, it's even more hilarious to win as Ret because you know the people on the other end are like, "wtf, is that paladin meleeing? Did we just lose to a Retadin??"

The 2v2 team is now on 2248 rating (although with 3 different setups i haven't played this week since 2175 rating). Yes, it runs into a lot of trouble at higher ratings, but it's still manageable. I am swinging it at that level, last weeks stats:
IMAGE DUMP

Nothing beats the feeling of being completely gimped and still winning.

Realistically I don't think anything can consistently beat a well played lock/druid other than another lock/druid, lock/priest (maybe) and warrior/druid (maybe).

The game isn't balanced around 1v1/2v2 yadda yadda

Check the top worldwide 2v2 teams on geekboys for example:
World of Warcraft Arena Ranking

I will note that Nex's team is quite annoying and it does work simply by surprising people, we did win coming from a 4v5 (they managed to gib me while in his hammer,) but I would say he did his job rather well

I was fighting a Moonkin Druid and Rogue team last night with my warrior, and they would do this sequence:

They cyclone the warrior at low health and ignore me, and I can't do much but try to spam heals to land when he comes out of cyclone.

When he comes out of cyclone, he immediately gets hit for a rogue finisher and a starfire/wrath and dies.

Is there any way to counter that? We couldn't really let the druid go free, so we tried killing the druid, and got him low a few times, but he would just root/cyclone the warrior and then travel form away to heal up. If he got on the rogue, the warrior was either chain cycloned or the rogue was spam healed while I was cycloned.

We only fought them twice, but couldn't really think of a way to beat them short of somehow pummeling out every cyclone.

This is coming from priest/warrior so it's a little easier for me to deal with the cyclones due to instant heals, but you might be able to work something out from it. When it comes down to warrior v rogue the key is that you need to CC the druid for long enough for your warrior to kill the rogue because otherwise the druid will never let it happen. The problem of course is that warrior/priest + warrior doesn't have reliable CC so you can't just brute force the CC right off, you have to get the trinket on cooldown first. Basically you need to panic the druid into trinketing from your limited CC and then surviving long enough that your CCs come back.

The way your warrior survives is to put on a sword and board, get into defencive stance and spam shield block. The rogue will take forever to get through that, and he has to because you'll get a full cyclone rotation, a feral charge, and every now and then a bash to go with. Anytime you can you need to be helping your warrior with instants. Holy shock, BoF so he can kite for a bit, BoP if you really need to, whatever you can do to keep him going. Eventually the rogue will get to 50% or so while the druid is messing around with you and now you have to stun the druid and get your warrior to bring out his 2-hander scaring the druid into breaking that stun (and hopefully NS too), then go back to outlast until your stun is back up. Once it is and the rogue is a little hurt, bring the rogue to the druid, have your warrior fear them both, and follow the druid to stun him right as the fear ends. You'll have bought your warrior around 14 seconds to burn down the rogue, and you can help with holy shock and JoR.

At least, that's how we do it. I don't know if paladins have the ability to keep a warrior up through all the druid's CC though. It also relies a lot on timing and positioning, sometimes it takes a while for all the pieces to come together. Our longest fight against this combo was around 20 minutes of alternating between him tanking the rogue and me kiting when he tried to go for me until we managed to catch the druid offguard.

[quote=Calantus;449423]Strat Options[quote]

Reading that it sounds like you're talking about a feral druid, the druid that was wiping the floor with us last night was a Moonkin, meaning his damage is, for the most part, unmitigatable by the warrior outside of the occasional spell reflect.

Since we started pulling in S2 Gladiator, I don't think we've ever lost to Feral/Rogue, but this Moonkin/Rogue combo was devastating.

Er. Oops.