◊ Shadowed

For 2vs2, dps/dps combos you can't really kite since nothing is stopping them from switching to seperating you from the Warrior and nuking him instead in which case playing LoS is more likely to make cause it to happen. If it's healer/melee then as long as they don't have a Paladin it's a joke anyway due to just being able to spam BoF while keeping them snared negates basically all of there damage on both of you, and if it's a ranged type class you can't really kite or play LoS since they could always switch to the Warrior.

It's worst for 3vs3 since you have more damage classes and not always 2 healers, meaning if you're trying to kite around pillars and such you'll get a DPS killed since by the time you're safe he's either too low to heal or you get locked down in some other manner.

In the end any attempt to use the pillars or LoS to survive is probably going to fail after a couple of games since anytime your teammates can be taking damage from a source besides the person you're trying to LoS, obviously this doesn't apply to things like PRiest/Rogue vs Paladin/Warrior, but it's a stupid matchup anyway due to BoF mechanics.

 

Keeper

If you're decently geared, you should be able to keep yourself up for at least 5 minutes against a warrior, including him pummeling almost every single heal assuming you're pretty bad at fake healing*. Though, this becomes harder if you add a second interrupter to the case(Fear/CS/Earthshock etc)/macestun warrior(How I hate thee....)
[edit]This is a bit of a lie. He can still int.shout/intercept and so forth to break heals, however, you can still BoP/Bubble at any time, too. That said, I don't really have problems keeping myself up against a single warrior.

Recordtime for me was around 12 minutes, but that was with LoH, repeated use of BoP/Bubble->Bandage and when I was low on mana, using Divine Illumination and then critting some heals. Granted, though, the warrior wasn't really trying anymore once he passed the 6-7 minute barrier.

This doesn't really work against rogues, mind you, because of mindnumbing poison(And the poison bug that's slated to get fixed next patch), so JoJ kiting is indeed the way to go.

*8.4K HP/9.4K mana/42m5/183 resilience/27% crit on FoL/31% crit on HL/13K armour/1218 healing are my unbuffed stats. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Damage wins the fame, Healing wins the game.

 

• Xaviera

Amera, I mostly agree with you, and what has already been mentioned a lot in this thread. A paladin by himself/herself can't do much, so it's up to their team to shift the way the game is unfolding. Basically, I find if my team isn't supporting me, or pressuring the enemy team enough, there's just a really small limit on things I can do to change the fight. Bubble only lasts so long, there's not much you can do when 2-3 people on the enemy team are determined to lock you out, or kill you.

Keeping a low profile, faking heals, and all of that glorious stuff is pretty useless if your team isn't doing anything at all to pressure their dps'ers/cc'ers from railing you [or the other healer on your team.] While we have a ton of tools to support a team, much like any other class we're useless if we don't get some help in return.

I've played a bit of 5v5 in a decently rated team, and in order to improve my playstyle and such, I watched the video of sck (Pandemic). In all honesty the video wasn't impressive or special at all from a paladin perspective, since his team was so good. He had very little to act on or do since the enemy team was pressured so strongly that sck was never threatened in return. Token BOF's, simple BOP's and just chain holy lighting to keep people up while the rest of the team prevents him from being cc'd/interrupted at all via fears, snares, etc.

There really is very little to playing a paladin effectively in arena once you understand very simple basics (faking, LOS, sac., etc). From there it's all about how well your own team can shape the game.

And like you, that's why I'm also finding my warrior far more interesting in PvP. It's not first nature for some people in pvp to support those who are supporting them, but when I'm covering for my healer with intercept stuns on every cooldown to let them get some distance, or cast their CC, etc, it makes a huge difference, and just seems more interactive and fun, being on the other side for once.

edit- Post #27 is extremely similar to my own in regards to thoughts on this topic.

 

Zexika

I'm from a warrior + paladin 2on2 team, speaking about mirror games.

The hardest paladin to beat always stays on a pillar in blade's edge, which means you can't intercept him.

We often win against this combo when I go straight for the enemie's warrior after their paladin used BoP or DS, with some lucky crits he can go down very fast and the enemy paladin sits on his 50 % mana left. You have to make sure tho that your own paladin doesn't have Forbearance on CD, else it will be hard for him to stay alive against an enraged warrior with lots of rage and possibly sweeping strikes.

I have a question for you paladins tho, when a warrior is on a paladin for the whole arena round, should the paladin use BoL on himself or is it more mana efficient to use BoW?

 

Stent

One topic that hasn't seen much (enough) light in this thread is warlocks. A well played warlock can absolutely shut down a paladin in the smaller arenas, notably 2v2.

What strategies have people developed against warlock/healer, and warlock/shadowpriest teams? These two setups dominate the top 10 of our battlegroup, and I'm sure this isn't entirely uncommon.

I run with a warrior in my 2v2, and we've developed some strategies to combat warlock teams, but I'm curious what others have come up with.

 

Leene

My warrior/paladin team faced a couple of paladin/warlock teams last week. When we did win I jumped off the bridge right after getting dotted/nuked, left the warrior to whack away at the warlock, healed myself to full health. Then I stayed out of sight untill I deemed a he needed a heal, ran up, healed, HoJ+AT on the paladin. Since the warlock switched to my warrior he fed him rage and took quite a beating, in the end the combination of his massive damage output and my stuns/aoe silence made the warlock go down.

 

Fjord

No, blessing of freedmon will overwrite it before it pays for itself.

 

Vazu

Not to mention that unless it's a mace specc'd Warrior with a Blacksmithing hammer, most good Paladins can heal for quite a while before going OOM. Paladins are a pretty poor choice to assist on unless you're making that a team strategy to blow their bubble.

 

Ragnor

Before everyone got geared I would have agreed, now that we are seeing warriors with 1400-1500ap and 35% crit it's starting to get impractical to stand there and take it. One mistake and you're gone. Relying on BoP is a little risky if the warrior hasn't used their fear. An on to it warrior will fear you if you use BoP on yourself, forcing you to waste time and use your pvp trinket.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

Keeper

Perhaps you're doing something wrong? Or maybe the warriors I'm fighting against are? I don't seem to have trouble at all keeping myself up vs. the warriors in my team:
http://armory.wow-europe.com/#charac...=Vashj&n=Frein
http://armory.wow-europe.com/#charac...hj&n=Dassantwo

The latter is normaly axe spec with Mooncleaver and around 34% crit, however, he's trying out sword spec for a little while now with the Mongoose enchant. As long as it is just one warrior on you, I don't see why you should not be able to keep yourself up for an extended period of time. As I said in my previous post, it becomes a lot more difficult trying to heal when you add in a second interrupter, though.

Ow, and, Intimidating Shout doesn't work when you use BoP on yourself, last time I checked.

Damage wins the fame, Healing wins the game.

 

Vitae

I'm fairly sure that BoP blocks Intimidating Shout, as it is a physical school ability. My warrior partner reports this, at least.

That said, I prefer to not use BoFreedom on myself in the paladin/warrior mirror matches, as it leaves you a bit too vulnerable to the possibility of your warrior getting snared and ditched for my tastes. Also, I've always found that while running away from their warrior with freedom does tend to result in less damage taken, it forces you to use your cooldowns earlier if they're able to catch up with you, as you've just spent however long not healing. Blessing of Light is better than Blessing of Wisdom if you're the focus target of the warrior, in my opinion, since it makes it much easier to keep yourself topped off with FoL without having to use cooldowns.

And I hate warlocks in 2v2. So very much. Every time my partner and I beat a warlock team it's a cause for celebration, even if we only get 3 points.

 

• Deris

I find that the best thing to do vs. a Warrior (or any interrupter really) is to constantly be queuing or casting a heal even if you and your partner are at full health. You would really be shocked at how many 2200+ rating team Interrupters will use an interrupt for no reason whatsoever, allowing you free reign to cast a heal for however long the CD is if it is needed.

If a warrior attacks me (my partner is a warlock) I just put SoJ up, melee the warrior for stuns while the Paladin/Healer gets feared all over, lock dots him up then I run over and HOJ/silence (assuming no bubble) the healer and its usually set/point/match after that.

 

drole

I've heard shadowresistance should do a huge difference. SR on cloak and jewelry combined with aura should easily give you 150+ and unless you've got insane amounts of stamina on those items a little hp buff.

 

• Jokie

Now that I've got my BE pally to 70, I've teamed up with a warlock buddy for the 2v2 arena. I know that in a 5v5 that you want to stay "hidden" as much as possible but my question is how involved I should be in the mix in 2v2.

Should I be in the mix to help melee/SoR while exposing myself to the other DPS class (i.e., hunter's multishot) or keep at range? I current stay back a little bit and close the distance when it's time to help HoJ/silence the other healer to help finish him.

 

• Amera

So no one has really touched on using other specs in arena. Has anyone tried them out at all and had any success in any bracket?

 

Ragnor

Probably a combination of me playing with Australian/NZ latency of 300-500ms and warriors with better gear. Some of the warriors we face even at my average-ish rankings have over 35% crit and over 1400ap unbuffed.

Hmm BoP never used to block fear, might test that tonight... nice it if doesn't.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

Stent

Blessing of protection both blocks and removes intimidating shout. It's a physical ability.

 

Keeper

I think it has to do with your latency then. I personally play at around 80MS, and it's not like the warriors I linked are undergeared by any means, and keep in mind, Frein doesn't have Axespec for added crit, though he does have Sword Spec.(Of course, there are warriors with better gear, but it's not like 1-2% crit and a few more AP are going to be the major difference)

[edit]

I'm currently working on gearing my Retribution set up(3/5 Ret set and Arena sword), and I might try it out in 2v2/3v3 arena once I get my manapool a bit higher than it currently is(along with some of the PvP epic items, but battleground farming in my battlegroup is incredibly tedious).

Damage wins the fame, Healing wins the game.

 

Viluliina

I tried a bit more prottish build after one respect due to me being focused in a few games, ofcourse i wasnt even touched in the following 50 games, and doing some dueling to see the difference.
I didnt really feel that much more durable, mainly due to my heals healing for less and missing DI, but overall i was enduring about as much, just that i couldnt support other people as well as with 41/20.

On the survival vs warrior part of the discussion, i managed to keep myself up ~20mins vs a full gladi geared orc with mooncleaver in a duel on the event server. I dont really see problem functioning when a single dps class is harassing me, and like someone said already in this thread, most people, even in top teams, still try to interrupt your ever action, instead saving the interrupt when it would really matter (when someome is about to die, not when someone is still at 90%).
Second interrupt makes me unable to use cast times at all, just like Hubris said. Which basicly means BoF'ing myself and running, Holyshocking when ever cd and hoping for heals, and hoping my team gets something done while i kite their dps.

 

◊ Shadowed

Putting a Warrior on a Paladin would be incredibly worthless anyway, Rogues are far better at it due to more interrupts and not being constrained by Rage.

 

• Karakas

The dominant strategy for mirror matchup war vs. pally is for the war to get on each team's paladin, so survival vs. warriors as a paladin is definitely of high concern, and a proper strategy for how to survive warriors helps a lot.

 

hip

1) Use FoL almost exclusively except after pummels.
2) Dont bother faking unless you're getting low on health.
3) Strategically bubble (a good time is when your warrior is on the other side of the map).
4) Use HoJ effectively. My favorite "trick" is to HoJ warriors while they jump across the gap of the platforms in Blades Edge. Stunning them behind a pillar and pillar kiting them is also an option.
5) If their paladin is doing the Freedom->Kite combo, kite their warrior over to yours and have him PH for some deadzone kiting action.

Honestly I've found it almost exclusively more effective to NOT kite warriors around unless you have a particular plan in mind (for example getting the warrior on the opposite side of a pillar and pillar kiting them). Running for the sake of running is all and all pretty ineffective because it leaves you very vulnerable to interrupts as they will be beating on you a good portion of the time and when you do heal, an interupt will likely kill you.

Honestly, I've won a ton of games just standing in one spot on Blades Edge (near the platforms on the top of the bridge) and spamming FoL on myself and just attempting to knock the opposing warrior down every time HoJ was up. This is while the other paladin is "kiting" my warrior across the map, to the point where hes literally screaming on vent about how he wants to quit the game and whatnot, but in the end they leave themselves very vunerable and get cornered by him, while I still have 100% health and about the same mana.

 

◊ Shadowed

Sorry should have been a little bit more clear.

For 5vs5 or even 3vs3 unless you have no choice a Warrior is a bad choice for locking a Paladin down.

For 2vs2. Why can't you just kite him? Best case the Paladin burns BoF on his Warrior and then you don't have to worry about your Warrior being kited, our rage generation isn't very good when people start moving around if they're moving back and forth and such.

 

Ragnor