Khaelarys

I can't get wisdom to stick on anything. And I believe those Judgements can be resisted.

Which is why I was happy about Justice - he is right though, that's exactly why Judgements don't work while BoP'd - but I don't think they all use melee hit, or are all counted as a physical attack.

 

Fiola

Debuff judgements cannot be resisted. Check your 1.9 patch notes. (For a short while, JoC was in that category, since it was a debuff pre-1.9).

WoW -> Patch Notes -> 1.9

"Judgements - Judgements that place a debuff on their victim will now all have their duration refreshed when the judging paladin strikes the victim with his or her melee swings. All these debuffs have had their duration decreased to 10 seconds. In addition, Judgements that place debuffs can no longer be resisted."


So that's JoJ, JoW, JoL. Use this knowledge to ruin the day of sprinting CloS'd rogues. (And remember for PvP that JoJ grants fear immunity)

 

makotospeaks

k so,

i searched this thread and could not find the answer...

How does Divine Purpose act with your resilliance?

I Currently have 375 Resilliance and will be respeccing to pure pvp soon as my prot gear is finnaly up to snuff for heroics, and i want to maxamise my spec. I like the full on DPS spec now that i ahve gear...so im not really willing to go into Prot anymore, and as im not going to PvE and am a Dreanei Precision isnt a huge loss imo. The two specs i was considering are:
WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator

and

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Paladin -> Talent Calculator

The Former gives me bonus mana and Fear/disorient resist, if you have ever been Oom near the end of a very close arena game or even just in a BG somewhere...you know the extreme frustration of not being able to kill what would be easy if you had mana...which is why thats attractive. Fear resist is of course...very nice.

The Latter gives me Parry which not only helps fully negate a further 5% of incomeing melee attacks, but as a 2h weilder will be offensivly valuable as a parry increases your swing timer on next swing dramitically...this of course is great against the OH so common warrior. It also increases Divine purpose to a full 3 points...

thanks

 

Galick

Ok I just briefly read through the things posted but here's what I've found out. JoJ cannot be resisted, however trinkets now remove the debuff. The way I get around it is I open with JoJ and when the druid trinkets, I throw my stun on him and if he gets away, the warrior intercepts on him and my judgement cooldown is surely up by then. Oh and JoB is the only physical seal YA'LL have, or so I'm told. I'm still sandy about not having it.

I recently started tryin ret in 5v5. So far I'm 11-0 on the team and it's at 1712. The setup is warrior/ret paladin/ele shaman/rogue/holy paladin. The idea behind the team is to assist train warlocks. If there is no warlock, then we find a priest or druid and get on that target. With the large amount of bursts/stuns we can quickly eliminate a target and having two pally bops to fall back on is a great asset. It's built to combat the Euro comp. I'm speculating that we will struggle against the double shaman teams that have a lotta burst and no cloth, but luckily those teams are few and far between.

 

• thevidon

You will struggle more when you get into the higher brackets and the druids/mages get better at CC on your DPS. Any team with decent CC is going to turn your match into 3DPS/1Healer vs. 2DPS/2Healer....and its hard to burst down a target with 2 healers up.

Also, you will grow to hate BOP. Even if you are spam purging a well time BOP will cut a huge amount of incoming damage.....and if the purge is resisted then your odds of winning the game just went way down.

A typical team will put their rogue on your elemental shaman (I cant remember the last time I met more than 1 team in a week that didnt have a rogue so I just assume every team has one)....so he is out of the picture DPS wise. One of your 3 physical dps classes will be getting chain CC - probably ret pally or rogue depending on who you are going for on their team. That leaves 2 of your DPS on a target that has 2 healers supporting him. Not good odds for you.

Sure, sometimes everyone will get WF procs and your target will instantly die....and thats fun. But overall it is a weaker comp than 3 DPS/2 Healer ones.

I recommend trying out warrior/rogue/enhance shaman/holy pally/disc priest if you want to play a very similar comp that is a bit more reliable for wins.

Or alternatively since I'm assuming you are a ret pally try warrior/ret pally/rogue/resto shaman/disc priest (or holy pally). If you decide to run this comp with a priest you will need to pay close attention to your healers as a ret pally and use BOF/BOP at the right times to help them.

 

Galick

I've ran setups similar to what you speak of and 3 dps 2 healer teams work great gettin to 1900-2100 range but you will inevitably lose to every mana drain and good 4 dps setup you come up against because you neither have the ability to outlast a 4 dps team, nor the ability to kill anyone on a mana drain team before too many players are oom.


Not only will the rogue be on the shaman, but the rest of the team will be as well. So far the shaman has been the only person targeted save for one warrior gib team. We have answers to most cc. I'm not sure if you have much familiarity with a ret paladin, but more or less I just CS/auto attack our target, stun/repentance one healer and spam cleanse everyone. It's mana intensive, but it completely nullifies sheeps, fears, pally stuns and any other magic CCs which leaves just the stuns on the shaman for cc. My answer for that is when we get a target hurting, we bop the shaman and allow him to do his burst. If the priest is tryin to remove the bop then he's not healing the target we're on and we'll have a good chance at killing it. I'm not saying we won't lose some because there are some great teams out there, but I am saying that magic stacked 4 dps teams will most likely be our bane.

 

makotospeaks

Aside from my questions up a few posts about Resilliance + Divine Purpose and a full pvp spec. I run currently with Warrior/RetPally/Boomkin/RestoShammy/HolyPaladin and would love some advice, currently i (retpally) have a focus macro for hammer and repent that i use to annoy the second healer while we attempt to kill the first. I or the holy will typically end up BoPing the Resto Shammy, and tbh he dies more often then anyone. I found that Wings help a lot to get that first target down...but they also leave me vulnerable, while im no more squishy then the Warrior i'v usually always went without wings in favor of being able to bubble if it needs to happen, should i just wings and have faith in my healers?

do you have a setup for cleanseing your team that makes it easier, it seems tedious and a major loss of my attention/DPS to deal with cleansing our team. I still cleanse things like fear when i see it happening, but thats about it aside from cleanseing myself, maybe a macro for each team member that reselects your last target or something...or a mod?

Here are my team members armory links....any advice on their gear/spec would also be appreciated.
Ret Pally aka Me
MS Warrior
Resto Shammy
Holy Pally
Boomkin

~Thanks

 

Galick

I use the decursive mod from curse.com. It makes it so you can just click a box to cleanse instead of having to drop your target to cleanse. The way I do it is I'll use JoJ to dismount and put up SoC and just CS and auto attack and cleanse between CS's. When the warrior gets a hammer proc, or in my case I have a rogue that can kidney shot, then I'll actually judge for that extra burst. Having focus macros for your stun/repentance is def a great first step.

As far as wings goes, I'll generally not pop them at all against 4 dps teams because if they do a turn, you could very easily die. I try to save my wings until the second target. I will pop it on the first target, however, if a)it's a warlock and his pet just died in attempts to finish him before he can summon another one, b) if we do a turn(this usually means we can't kill the first target for some reason and are most likely behind in the fight)

Biggest thing is just make sure not to blow wings early in the fight because most priests and resto shamans just purge off buffs until someone on their team is in danger. If you wait until you get one of their teammates hurting, they won't be able to purge off your wings.

I too have a question. I cannot discern whether or not it is better to throw on sword and board against physical dmg teams in 3v3 if they're attacking me. I know if I do this that I reduce dmg taken somewhat, but my dmg goes in the toilet with a decapitator instead of a Torch of the Damned or Vengeful Sword. Any thoughts?

 

• Amera

Or make a macro for who you end up cleansing the most. /cast [target=name] Cleanse

You should also have a mouse over cleanse macro keybound: /cast [target=mouseover] Cleanse

If you find yourself BoPing the same target, you can make a cast macro for that person that as well.

Amerah, Selaste <Serious Casual>

 

makotospeaks

thanks ill check out decursive as your explanation seems to indicate it keeps you from losing your DPS target while you cleanse which was my biggest issue with cleansing others.

I do have a Bop macro for our Shaman ^.^ thats a must imo. So, maybe im just a tard and no one wants to point it out....but Divine Purpose + resilliance? anyone have info on exactly how it works? I have it now to try, but in all honesty Warriors still hit about the same, or so it seems...at 400 Resilliance, coupled with 10% additional reduction in physical crits taken...

 

• Amera

There are better places to spend points. It's a pretty awful talent.

Amerah, Selaste <Serious Casual>

 

SoraHime

I've never understood how this works, or if it does. Does this mean that debuffing someone with JoJ mean the person with the JoJ debuff becomes immune to fear?

 

doogless

Yes, same as Curse of Recklessness.

 

Victarion

Does anyone have any opinions so far on the new exalted SSO healing neck for Scryers? I picked it up earlier this week but I haven't really had much time to play with it. It's too early for me to tell if the proc makes up for the loss of ~500 mana, ~120hp and 22 resilience in return for less than 20 healing and 1mp5. (Versus the Vindicator's neck)

 

mdokane

I use it strictly because I am saving honor and haven't purchased the vindicator's neck and I will tell you that it is absolutely not worth it. The proc (for Scryers) is nice when it augments a flash of light into a bigger heal but it is far too sporadic to rely on.

On a similar note (and forgive me if this has been brought up, I searched it to no avail), I was curious what other holy paladins think about the [Vial of the Sunwell]. On initial inspection, I tossed the idea of using it aside as it seemed to rob me of the pure throughput per time potential of Scarab, but after playing with it for a little bit I can certainly see where it blows Scarab out of the water. BoPing an MS'd target and macroing a diving favor holy shock to go with the trinket which doesnt activate GCD, the instant healing potential goes up to the 5-6k region, which can buy quite a lot of time and allow you to catch up. This can also be maximized by using it early in the match.

 

Palamang

Hey all. I have a quick question for the forum with the least amount of QQ.

I previously ran a gladiator resto druid and and understand that class inside and out. I got tired of it, quit after S2, and recently my friend and I rerolled horde. He is now a warrior, and I still want to heal. I was very excited to get on the Pally train and start leveling, but all I hear is people whining about how Pally is worthless in anything but 5v5, which is not what I experienced before. I am also interested in priest, however I hear that running the popular disc setup isn't so hot either. I've done my research, but to no avail. Basically, I'm asking if all of the "worthless PvP Paladin" talk is just hot air because people get frustrated with druids, or if I should seriously reconsider leveling this toon up. If that is the case, which non-druid class could compliment these two setups best in this new season?

2v2- Warrior+______
3v3- Warrior+Shaman+_______ or Warrior+Lock+_________

Thanks.

 

• Amera

There's no reason to play a holy paladin in anything besides 5v5 unless you like 30+ minute games in 2v2 as a lock/paladin, and for that you need PvE gear. That's not to say you can't do well, of course, but there is a better choice than a paladin (druid) in every team setup.

If you are going to play with a warrior, resto shaman or resto druid are the best choices. Both are good 2v2 partners and have some viable 3v3 and 5v5 combos as well. Since you don't want to play a druid, shaman is probably your best bet. Priests are amazing at the moment but make a poor 2v2 partner and don't synergize that well in many 3s teams with a warrior either.

Amerah, Selaste <Serious Casual>

 

AriasImmortal

Two healer warrior is fine in 3s (paladin, shaman, warrior). Your shaman just has to be amazing. Overall though, you'd be best off leveling a shaman yourself.

 

Pixen

The other thing I've heard is that you can build the vial charges before the match even starts, so it's ready to go when you are. I don't have one yet so I can't really confirm.

 

• Amera

Druid is also better in that setup. I've been running double resto + warrior on my druid, and it has seen some recent success in top 3v3 brackets as well. Two healers that have to cast is pretty bad. Elem + Holy + War is generally a lot stronger.

Amerah, Selaste <Serious Casual>

 

Zure

As others have eluded to, paladins are not the strongest small bracket healer these days. However, paladin/warrior can and does do quite well in the right hands. If you watch any video by GC or Hoodrych, you see them fight War/Pal, which means there are people queueing with that comp at the very top of BG9.

Paladins are excellent compliments to warriors in 3v3, but only in a very small number of comps. They can do well in certain double melee comps, but primarily shine in 2 healer teams. As you mention, paladins are ridiculously good in 5s, and form a very solid healing foundation for many comps. Paladins are one of the better partners for a warrior when just messing around in BGs as well.

So overall, if you are looking to be at the very pinnacle of the bracket, I'd suggest something other than paladin. Anything less, and you'll be fine. If you are a real min/maxer and want to heal, I'd roll a shaman or a druid.

The bigger questions I would raise is whether you truly want to heal as a paladin. The problem with holy paladins for me is less that they aren't viable and more that they just aren't a particular fun class/spec to play. You have very few things to do besides cast heals, cleanse, and HoJ periodically unless there is a druid or demon around. Of course, this is an overstatement, but this is a very common refrain from paladin players. The second issue is PvE gear: paladins are rarely targeted and benefit immensely from the healing/mp5 on pve gear. If you aren't planning on gathering any of this, you will likely feel limited in how far you can go relative to more appropriately geared paladins. This can, however, be a benefit, as if you can quickly get your hands on some T5/T6, you'll have your character up and running much faster than having to grind 100k honor and 10k arena points.

 

mdokane

Yes this is true, even with buffing 5 players and pets I have plenty of time to queue up 20 flash of lights to get the necessary charges.

After some initial testing, and granted this is only the 1850 bracket where my paladin alt resides currently, this trinket has a lot of potential. I find it is especially useful in that it is outside the dreaded holy tree lockout and can certainly save a life there. If anyone is still having doubts about it, I highly recommend trying it out.