yuri

Also tested it now, and ya it is broken.

I just hope it gets fixed really soon and doesnt stay an everlasting bug.

 

Antarius

Until they fix it, improved HoJ with the 4 piece gladiator set is definatly the way to go.

 

Zraknul

It's a confirmed bug by blizzard:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...geNo=1&sid=1#1

Hortus' post
I'd hold off respecing if you're not playing till the weekend or something as I've heard they might be hotfixing this issue, as there are other bugs such as Misdirect occasionally giving the threat to the hunter.

 

Spades

I hope it's a hotfix. Not getting shut down is pretty important, and I don't really want to wait a week or, God forbid, two or three weeks to get my reduction.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

levk

If I can get my hands on Unstable Peridot as a non jewelcrafter, it has just become my new favorite gem

 

Zraknul

I'd love to get a talasite version of that gem.

 

levk

That one looks screwy - the tooltip has it as orange while the bonuses make it clearly green. And there's 4 stamina while all the others have 6.

 

Zraknul

True, I just ment I'd like to have a higher int/stam version of that gem, having assumed it was the stats given by the type of cut (ie: royal = healing/mp5 purple gems).

The Unstable Talasite looks sketchy checking it off wowhead.

 

Stommp

This 2000+ rating team has a ret paladin: http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#c...etree&n=Baconn

And although his talent spec is 0/27/34, he's geared as a ret paladin and plays it well. He used to camp BRM by himself pre expansion and make it hell for raid groups going in for BWL. I think reckoning plus the 34 points in ret allows him to be more of a force in arenas. You beat on him, he hits back harder.

 

Ragnor

Why would you even attack a paladin in 5v5 though, or if you saw a 2h pally in 2v2 wouldn't you just zerg down the warrior and ignore the pally since he can't heal for nuts with 0 holy and no healing gear.. For caster teams chain fear or spell lock/counterspell = paladin is now doing no damage.

Is the Reckoning battle group very competitive? I mean in the old honor system is was always a joke to get GM on most servers I see in that battle group compared to being next to impossible on servers like Tich & Lagrock where you had to play 24x7 and much of the time you'd be playing org teams in wsg/ab.

The other thing is 2000 rating isn't special anymore, aren't all the good teams are over 2500 so the quality of people you play at 2000 is not that high.

I can't see how his spec is going to be effective against semi competent opponents, with that said lets hope he makes a video and proves me wrong because it would probably be fun.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

◊ Shadowed

Looking at the 5vs5 ladder on Reckoning, top 20 is around 2,150 minimum with the top 5 being 2,400+, and have around 60-70 teams that are 2,000+ so I could see being able to manage a 2,000 rating when you're using the stacked 2 Warriors type of groups.

Going by the armory, the team he's talking about is a stacked 2 Warriors/Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman/Ret Paladin group, really the 5ths class/spec doesn't matter too much for DPS as long as they can do somewhat decent burst or support in a way.

I'd never attack a ret Paladin in that kind of group first, it's far better to go for the healers since they aren't Paladins you can drop them relatively quickly.

 

• Amera

I specced Ret to do some of the new quests and whatnot on Tuesday, and it had been awhile so I had way more gear. I think a 5v5 setup with MS War, Ret Pal, Resto Sham, Holy Pal, One other (mage or lock) would be pretty great. 2 BoPs, 2 freedoms, 2 stuns, etc. You need the assistance of MS, definitely, but with Windfury and Ret burst DPS you could drop people very quickly, and you are still a poor target to train since you can still bubble.

I don't really understand the purpose of a 0/27/34 spec, Ret without the high-end talents just seems a waste.

 

hip

I think the purpose of picking up reckoning as ret would be to add in a "risk factor" to hitting you, much like warriors have with enrage and defensive rage generation. IMO if you managed to get people to assist you as a paladin with that talent, you could probably put out some pretty unholy damage, but overall you are right; dropping CS seems to be too much loss for the reward.

 

tristantio

I tried out a Reckoning/Retadin dual spec in arena and didn't really care for it. When using a slow weapon (3.5 speed or slower) to compliment retribution and seal of command, this means that at most reckoning is giving 2 free attacks every 8 seconds that it's up.

Crusader strike will give an extra attack every 10 seconds irregardless if the paladin is being attacked or not. Also crusader strike is not just an auto-attack, it gets the spell damage bonus applied to it as well.

 

◊ Shadowed

In the team makeup they are running, anyone who even considers attacking a ret paladin first is just going to lose, it's far safer to nuke the healers first since they aren't Paladins and will drop far faster and will hurt the team more.

 

Vitae

In regards to Improved Concentration Aura and Talisman of the Breaker and their effect on interrupts:

I just tested this several times, and interrupt duration was acting very odd.

To summarize the logs and whatnot: Baseline counterspell was about an 8.4 or so time from "soandso interrupts" to "You cast holy shock" in my logs. Counterspell with imp. conc aura 3/3 was about a 7 second time. Counterspell with Talisman of the breaker but NO imp conc aura was about 7. Counterspell with both talisman and aura ranged between 5.563 to 5.937 seconds.

I was using the default /combatlog option for this, since it records to thousandths of a second. I can post my logs if people want, but otherwise I'd encourage those with neck to check if they're getting similar behavior.

My methedology was simply have the mage counterspell holy light, then when the grey out was nearing completion, spam click holy shock with myself targetted (the log does not register things like school locks wearing off).

Sadly the mage in question didn't have improved counterspell, so I can't speak to silence durations, though I'd imagine they have similar behavior.

My THEORY about the durations is that the necklace is working at the 20% it says it should, but conc aura is only working at a 15% value, however they stack. I arrive at those numbers mainly from the 5.563 figure - that's GREATER than a 30% reduction on interrupt - using 8.4 as my baseline delay, it's approximately a 35% reduction on the 8s lock timer.

 

Spades

Can anyone confirm if Blessing of Sacrifice is no longer breaking CC? A rogue told me that "bug" would be removed in 2.1, but I haven't had time to test it myself.

"Existence has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long."
-Rorschach, Watchmen

 

hip

Ya, it still removes cc.

 

Zraknul

BoSac not breaking CC would definitely hurt it a lot. However they did fix that "bug" with shiv applying poison at the weapon's item level (ie: level 110/115 in most cases).

 

Keline

Did Conc aura get fixed yesterday? Can't log in, server still down and unlikely to change until tomorrow..

 

AngryDwarf

Tested it today, here are results:

Wearing Talisman of the Breaker and using Improved Concentration aura - average lockout time from counterspell = 5.769 sec.

27.65% reduction


No talisman but running aura - average lockout time = 7.203 sec.

About a 10% reduction


So it is quite clear that as of 2.1.1 this is still broken.

I still would like to get some data with a felhunter's spell lock, perhaps I can find one later and post the results.

 

Ragnor

How long was the lockout with just breaker?

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

 

Cromfel

This coming from a oldtimer Retribution Paladin...

Rating cap with my old 3vs3 team was around 2160 points. And only thing limiting our rating was the fact that Retribution ran out of tools. I had unreliable damage, none can deny that. Sorry, that is too unreliable damage for high rating. I had best possible gear available, I had extremely skilled team members... But I had to quit because I saw where we were going. My spec was the bottleneck against our nemesis teams, and there were many combinations that work well against team with Retri Paladin. My friends didnt want me to quit. The yasked me to continue, they wanted to keep going. And we could have most likely reached higher ratings if we got our things well. But I could not accept it. I knew what was weakest link in our team. And that made me stop playing Arenas. I knew that if I was playing my Warlock for example, that it would have easily secured our route to higher ratings.

BoF is no good? Purge, Dispell, Devour, Spellsteal. Defensive skills loose always when there is counter for em. Thats one of the major problems. if your support can be easily countered, you are eliminated from the advantages of team. BoP the holy priest is no good? Purge, Dispell, Devour, Spellsteal. Being immune to CC (BoSac) is no good? Purge, Dispell, Devour, Spellsteal. DS? With decent retrigear, lets say you focused on spell dmg to cover this area, you will be throwing about 3k heals. Thats ~3 heals under DS, consuming majority of mana (If you even have much mana left due your extremely manaconsuming Casino combat system). Cleanse is no good? Most of the time your cleanse is waste of time. Its many many many times a lot more useful to just throw 1 heal instead or BoS or DS than waste countless GCD on trying to dispell some trash debuff. Not to mention all the talents against this. Stun and range incapitate is no good? 1 minute cooldown, 2minute trinkets. Repentance can be good and works 1st time against each team. 2nd time they are prepared for it. Offhealin and huge burst is no good? Mana, Healing efficiency, damage. Sweet dream. Everything we had pre TBC have been limited and exponentially "indirectly" nerfed for Retribution spec.

"That is because ppl dont know how to use Paladin properly." You will see this different when you understand how extremely efficient other hybrids are and how great support tools they have combined with great damage output. You will understand how lacking Retribution really is when you see best of the best. And no matter how perfectly you play or perform, even when your enemy makes mistakes you see that if you were some different class you would have won them with ease.

I have said before, that we got great future ahead of us at lvl 60 when TBC was released. But things really didnt turn out well. Everything scaled above us, all those little indirect nerfs and scaling problems pushed us to lvl 60 state when comparing to other classes. Our toolset is extremely thin when comparing to any other "pvp" spec. 40/0/21 spec can produce very similiar damage than Retribution does... They do it with Shield giving them huge boost in physical mitigation and they have extremely good healing capacity despite their offensive spec nature.

Retribution lacks all that, we lost the edge when TBC was released. And thats why I wish TBC never got released. I love good old times of having 1vs1 against skilled people, fighting for 15 minutes without result. All those good friends whoop my ass now. Druids as 1 example. I have a lot of great pvp friends from the old times, but unfortunately I cant compete anymore. I would love to give them challenge, but with given toolset its not possible anymore.

Do I suck? Maybe... Thats very likely. But from the experience and knowledge of pvp system, from the endless studying of my enemies pre TBC have given me slight information of how different kind of skills behave under pvp environment. And currently Retribution have fallen deep behind. I spent hours after hours after hours studying all possible specs of my enemies and all little tricks what top skilled players did on their pvp routines... Now when Im doing same, I can not find solutions to counter many of the tricks and ways they perform against me as Retribution Paladin. Even when I know that my enemy utterly sucks, I know that they can perform set X or Y what makes them win no matter how I play personally. At some cases even good crit strong and luck cant overcome the routines of extremely skilled players. I know exactly how my enemies should play to win me with 100% succes rate. If they make mistake and I win, it wasnt because I was better in handling Paladin, it is because they failed. I came into point where I knew too much of this game and pvp, at that point I gave up.

Many claim that 6sec CS was overpowered. But the fact is that it was only competitive. By no means overpowered. It could make havoc and slaughter clueles noobs with bad gear in the hands of proper player... But there was still plenty of classes who were at equal stage. Giving equally geared and skilled Retribution paladins fun for their money. I can admit that there were players who could win me, I knew how they should have played in order to beat me, and many did. Thats what is called balance.

Unfortunately the crying was too big for Blizzard to keep us at that stage. All the hate, mockery channeled into pure embaracement on players when they lost to a paladin. Unblievable, can you imagine the pain and agony and shame when you realise that Paladin won you? To make it short: As Retribution PvP Paladin all I got from TBC was Judgement of Justice rank2 combined with huge amount of indirect nerfs to core abilities that were advantage for me pre-TBC

There would be so many good tales from my path, and so little time to tell em all.

.:. Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/

 

AngryDwarf

I didn't do any tests with just the talisman, but taking lag into account and noting what others had tested previously, I think it's safe to assume that currently improved concentration aura is 15% (bugged), and Talisman of the Breaker is 20% (as listed), but they stack (bugged). At least with regard to mage counterspell.

 

Keline

So not only is it not working as intended, it also is _stacking_ as not intended?
Good thing they fixed warrior Gladiator pants this patch, that probably was mor