caboom

In BGs if you're attacking the pet and not the master when his buddies are getting ready to back him up, then you're doing something wrong. Pet killing is for arena where that pet in the next 5 mins can be annoying/hard to deal with/gamebreaking but in BGs it doesn't matter, it takes him probably less time to repawn than you could take to kill both his pet and him, so why bother with the pet?
Certainly you don't want to gear for that.

For BGs i'd say Glyph of Judgements is the only absolute must as a ret, with Glyph of Salvation as one of the better ones, but the rest are in between "kinda usefull" and "meh" for BG purposes.

PS : someone mentioned Command Glyph, I wanted to say that you are not supposed to even be picking up Seal of Command anymore, mind not spending a major glyph slot for it.

 

Hamaz

Are any rets currently using command in arena? I have heard over and over again that its inferior to blood. However, that being said I'm running ret rogue and i feel that for a 2burn that command might be something worth looking into. Any thoughts?

 

◊ Vectivus

SoC as a seal sucks. The only thing that makes it semi-valuable is the guaranteed crit against stunned targets when you Judge with it up. If you're running with a team that might take advantage of that perk (e.g. Ret/Rogue), then it has merit. Otherwise, it's still crap.

 

Babathong

Funny you bring this up. Last night, I was able to nuke down a resto druid on two seperate occasions during a HoJ, in the first 30 seconds of the match. It requires some a string of lucky crits, and catching them trying to be cute by cycloning/dpsing. Both times, I was on the DK/Rogue to start, waiting for my shammy to get them both purged.

All you need to do is let the druid hot up his teamate, and bait him in closer by los'ing around a pillar or something. Once he gets out of tree and is within decent range, you make an instant switch. The key is making sure he has zero hots on himself, specifically no lifebloom stacks.

I literally pop wings, Judge, HoJ, CS-Rocket Gloves at same time, DS, Arcane Torrent, and if your lucky he will be sub 20% health, where you finish him with HoW.

Now, if he had just trinketed the stun, he wouldve lived, but healers tend to be cocky sometimes assuming that you wont destroy them before they realize the match is over. Just like when Ill interupt a holy pallies heal when hes sitting at 35% health, and Ill sit there not attacking waiting for CS to come back around. Any good paladin will bubble instantly, knowing that if CS crits there more than likely going to die. Most pallies wont bubble however, and end up dying from arcane torrent coming directly after.

Priests, and Shamans are not as easy though. Its really beyone my knowledge though seeing that my resto shammy partner dies to basically any melee class very fast.

For me, any good healer is going to be difficult to train down like that, especially classes that can sit there laughing while they cast full heals right in your grill.

Warriors are feral druids burst is out of control right now. Wearing 990 resilience, my partner last night took 30K damage in matter of 6 seconds from a feral druid. Its quite funny that Blizzard can overlook the burst coming from these classes, but have really taken away alot of ours.

The funniest part of this whole thing was that I had a GM chat window open during this match because of a problem with us not getting credit for a win earlier. Long story short, somehow he was watching us play and after the game had ended, our chat resumed. The game that we didnt get points for was a 15 minute game against the same comp, DK/Druid. Upon realizing this the GM questioned how that could be after what I had just done to that druid. He proceeded to tease me in saying "I thought we took care of ret pallies nuking in one HoJ?" I replied, "Oh you did....he is carried by the DK," to which he replied its not possible to be carried anymore. LOL! IDK, I just thought it was funny at the time.

 

bmacishorde

i wish someone would create an updated thread on ret palies in pvp, im currently leveling one, at 75, and i want to read up on what i should be doing at 80 as far as pvp, if there is a thread and im not seeing it id appreciate it if someone directed me to it. thanks

 

yea its me

Not sure where else to post this so here it is. My 3v3 team right now consists of holy pally (me), DK, and rogue. We just recently played a 3's team of all mages in the ring of valor. The fight literally started with 12 mages (3 + 9 images) and 3 water elementals against us. It felt like AV in there. Needless to say we got destroyed quickly. All of the mages were in mostly pve gear, but I was wondering what in gods name should a team like ours do against that? I'm not sure what my role in that fight is besides getting counterspelled and sheeped over and over.

 

Crossbones

The problem with this is decent druids never leave tree anywhere near a paladin. Druids in war/dru never leave tree period. Rog/druid is probably the only setup where the druid spends much time in caster.

war/dru is getting more and more popular which is definitely a bad thing for us.

 

jrheeder

The question I have is why (as I am led to believe) is two ret pallys a bad idea in 2v2...appart from that 50% of our abilities is removed?

 

blacksuit

Here is at top ret paladin using command for arena:

The World of Warcraft Armory

There's another guy really high up with it as well, but his armory is fubar. I spoke to one of them about it, and he said that the main use was to avoid recoil. You lose sustained damage, period, but the burst is theoretically higher if the stars align. Caveat: this guy also uses SoB a lot. It's not a one or the other proposition. SoC is just another tool to use in some situations. Caveat #2: my teams are a little under 1900, haven't leveled them higher (but will, finals suck right now). Command might have some metagame implications at really high ratings that I'm not aware of.

 

caboom

The guy you linked has pvp glyphs on the spec he has no command specced, and the other spec has no glyphs so it's pretty obvious wich spec he does arena with. :P

 

jrheeder

Gentlemen (and ladies). I have been pvping now for about 200+ games. HOW THE HELL do you overcome a healing drood(and dps) or a disc priest(and dps)????

 

Destrali

First things first. Pally/Pally is a bad comp, your left vulnerable to quite a few things. Curses being the big thing (although it really only pretains to Hex). Another thing that the comp lacks is offensive support, yes you have holy shock good for you. Your CC (HoJ) is on a 1 minute CD unless your spec'd that deep into prot to reduce it, then its only 40 seconds. You have no way to strip buffs or reliably control your opponents or remove them from the fight temporarily. A Ret pally is not an ideal partner for a Holy Pally, you might want to consider a DK/War or perhaps a Rogue. As for your Ret partner he may want to consider a Disc Priest or a Resto Sham, even a Resto Druid would do wonders for him. Pally/Pally can win matches, however it is large RNG on who you face, and if you can CC train someone to kill their partner or them. A Pally/Pally CC train is fairly weaksauce compared to when you have a Druid/Rogue or Rogue/Mage. Pally/Pally CC train is essentially all the same manner of CC so it gets slammed by DR and can be rendered quite ineffective, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong on what I am about to say (this is something I've noticed through duels and Arena as of late), I believe HoJ and Repentence are now subject to DR, as in when a Ret runs a CC train on a healer to lock them out for a period it gets drastically reduced. I have noticed that when following up a HoJ with repentence, the latter will last roughly 2-3 seconds instead of the full 6. I run a Ret/Resto Sham comp currently in the mid 2k range (will be pushing on further here shortly).

 

Mahdrid

CC Chain, really. Our team is an Arms Warrior, me (Ret), and either an elemental shaman or a Holy paladin. Arms charges, we beat on him. If he trinkets the stun, I stun. If he's still alive the Shaman can frog him, and/or the warrior spins. Sometimes a priest will fear us, and we trinket and get right back on him.

It doesn't always work, especially if his teammates are good at peeling off us, but we tend to turn resto druids into lumber pretty quickly.

 

Spyler

Switching targets, very quickly, is a good way to bring a druid/priest down. Druids will have full stacks of HoTs on your current target and priests will have bubbles, etc, so switching will cause them to be in a GCD mess, especially if you're really smart as to when to make the switch (usually right after a fear, with your CDs/Wings up, their trinkets down, etc).

 

Buffjobb

The trick to using Seal of Command is to use Blood 90% of the time, and then when hoj cd comes up, put command up, not only do you get the big judge crit, but your command will proc fairly often during the nuke. If the nuke fails go back to seal of blood and RNG ahoy!

 

Mordekhuul

I'd like to get a feel for how other healadin/DK teams are progressing, particularly ones that got into season 5 late or never made 2000+ ratings.

My partner and I are having a fun, but frustrating, time pushing upwards. Our previous season ranking of 1837 made it fast to get back there (just as those with high rankings from last season probably rocketed up by gaining a ton of points for wins and losing almost nothing on losses), and now we seem to be bouncing between 1800 and 1890.

I don't have a real feel for how different the field is at higher rankings than low - perhaps there are some comps that don't hit high ranks that are trouble for us at our ranking, for example.

I'm sure the answer is just that we need more experience, but I'd love some perspective from other teams pushing up that didn't have the advantage of a high season 5 rank to propel them.

The one team we seem just unable to beat, at all, is mage/rogue, I have to say. Any reasonable mage/rogue team just wipes the floor with us. Dismantle + Evasion + stuns and my DK is just unable to do anything, at all, to the opposing team, and after an initial bubble to get healing off the odds of my keeping him alive as they burn him down in a few globals seems nonexistent.

 

MatsT

Your matchmaking rating doesn't affect your points gains or losses, only your pairings. You wouldn't have had an advantage starting at 2500 matchmaking, only difference is you would have lost first 20 games until your matchmaking rating went down and you would then proceed as now.

There isn't any huge differences in the field at different ratings. It's more or less the same setups everywhere.

As for beating mage rogue, the key is usually to chain your cooldowns together intelligently. Killing the rogue through his double evasion can be pretty tough, be prepared to try to kite with chains around pillars when they are up. Try to use BoSac and Divine Sacrifice to catch actual polymorphs, not just to prevent them from being cast.

 

Mordekhuul

That's odd on the MMR. I just assumed my 1837 MMR was the reason I was gaining 47 points per win and losing zero until I got close to it. Good to know.

I see some hope that there are healadin/DK teams in the high ranks, no matter how rare now, so we'll keep chugging knowing they deserve to be there.

 

MatsT

No, the reason you are gaining 47 points per win and losing zero is because you are playing against ~1837 rating. This is of course an effect of having 1837 MMR, but you are earning those 47 points by winning against significantly harder teams than at 1500 or 1200. No matter what MMR you start the season at, it will have adjusted itself to your "real" MMR long before you even reach 1500 or stop getting 47 points per win.

 

caboom

I wanted to add to the "anti-rogue/mage" discution that you could use bop to remove some of the rogue's debuffs, beeing Dismantle or a stun lock, ofcourse as long as he knows about it and is ready to remove it quickly.

 

Destrali

In terms of a Ret perspective to the "anti Rogue/Mage" discussion, there are a couple things that can be done to combat this pretty brutal combo.

First thing I find to be generally important is avoiding the Sap whenever possible. Hand of Reckoning can do this provided his mage partner screws up and gets too close before the rogue is in position. It deals 0 damage due to players being immune, however it does place both you and the mage in combat.

Ok, so you got the sap avoided, so probably the rogue may go after your partner and sap him/her instead, or simply wait for you to drop combat. If your partner gets sapped your going to be in for a world of hurt, upon the rogue opening up, freedom the kidney and change to Hand of Salvation (granted you have it glyphed). Once free from the stuns the best course of action that I have found is to pursue the mage. Attacking the rogue will be essentially futile considering Evasion, Cloak of Shadows (silly glyph that every rogue has) and Preparation to refresh those cooldowns. Take care to not LoS your healer if they do focus on you. Keep the pressure up on the mage and widdle him down, never let the mage escape to med up.

If you get sapped the ideal thing to do is to wait until the rogue opens on your partner and the mage is just in range of you for the sheep. The course of action I personally take is trinket the sap and immediately Hand of Sacrifice my partner if the Poly is coming, this will prevent me from being sheep'ed for a decent enough amount of time. Few mages seem to catch up on this and dont notice the Sac and try to sheep you a couple times. Again pressure and keep on the mage. A Hand of Protection on your partner may be necessary if you run with a healer, and by all means feel free to use it before your partner is in danger. Use it too late and the mage may feel tempted to Tee off on your partner and take him/her down. Divine Sacrifice is also another fine method of keeping yourself from being sheeped while pursuing the mage, the downside is you have to be relatively close to your partner if the rogue is on him/her.

The entire match is typically decided within the first 10-15 seconds, if you can avoid/negate the Sap and initial burst (as with virtually all matches) and then negate the CC that can be dished out while protecting your partner.

*edit* noticed a couple spelling errors.

 

Veet

This is an interesting idea, I will probably try it out on my next respec. However, I foresee quite a few problems with this strategy, the biggest being sparing a GCD for applying the seal prior to the HoJ and if the burst fails spending another GCD to switch back. Another small issue is saving that extra talent point that you would spend into SoC. I believe this has extremely situational use, limited to perhaps 1v1 with no pets on a target that cannot remove HoJ. Any time you can hit multiple targets you will always want to use Seal of Blood for the Divine Storms.

 

Crossbones

It's not worth the GCD or the talent point in my opinion.

SoC is the biggest waste of potential there is. All they have to do is make it do something PvP-essential and then they can tweak PvP dps independent of PvE.

 

Buffjobb

Just had a ret paladin do this to me yesterday, put my partner into a full cyclone, paladin switched to seal of command, popped wings simultaneously, and got seal of command to proc 3 times inside of the HOJ, they proc for ~1900 each non crit.

Hand of Freedom: The base duration of this buff has been reduced from 10 seconds to 6 seconds.

Probably meant to be a ret nerf, but as a holy paladin this is going to be HUGE in nerfing my cleave (skill intense) 3's team.

 

Fimka

Is the Seal of Martyr still the best seal to use. Currently i am in a 2vs2 team with a protection warrior, i am still new to PvsP and i am not sure if the current strategy we are using is the best/most effective, i would appreciate any comments or advise. Prior the the charge i cast Hand of Freedom on the warrior then the warrior charges a particular target (priority is always healer, mage/warlock, druid, melee) if both players are dps then the warrior charges the pally, DK, Warrior (in that order) as i run up from behind i use HoJ and then dps the hell out of the target, then keep the pressure until he drops. Pallys have was too many buttons to press and i find its pretty hard to keep my eye on the fight and my eye on the cooldowns, my health and my partners health. Are there any addons that are available to relieve some fo this pressure. I assume everyone is using JoW otherwise we run into mana issue unless. JoJ is very useful but i am not sure how i can keep my mana up if i use it. HoW is very nice but i am always afraid to use it because it blocks me from using my bubule. I see players ussing Turn of Evil Glyph but since you can only use it agains undead/demons, how useful is it.

I would like to start a discussion of what to do in different situations, what priority everyone is using when attacking, etc..

thx in advance