SotM/SoB is the best seal to use in PvP. It is hard hitting and very constant damage, very easy to keep the pressure on a healer or DPS. I keep SoC talented (pulled 1 point from Eye for an Eye) and for lack of many other terribly useful glyphs in my battlegroup I glyphed SoC. SoC gets touched ONLY as a last ditched effort to lower my damage intake when my healer is against the ropes and I simply cannot afford to take a lot of damage.

*The above statement with SoC has happened only once, against a P/R team, it lead to a win. However I feel that it isnt entirely necessary and will most likely move the point elsewhere and glyph out.

**Edit**

After reviewing your spec in the armory, I must say you've skipped some vital talents and picked up some less than desireable ones. Skipping Crusade was a poor choice, its a pure damage output increase which we need badly in PvP. Fanatacism gives us burst which again is needed in PvP. Swift Retribution, is a personal choice I feel, I love the talent however when it comes to PvP I just simply don't have any points left after getting essentials to pick it up. Righteous Vengeance is something I feel should be skipped until they fix it breaking Repentance (been few patches waitin on the fix since they broke it). Imp Righteous Fury is pretty big, it is a 6% dmg reduction when maxed out, that can make or break you, when you get right down to it, it becomes a noticeable amount of damage. The points in toughness aren't entirely needed, I use 1 point as a filler in order to get further down the tree.

As far as mana is concerned, I use JoJ and pop Divine Plea when see the "Low Mana" warning which I believe I have set to like 35% , and I have no problems. The only time mana becomes an issue is when you face a Disc Priest.

I hope this helps, PM me if you have any more questions.

thx for your advise, i have a few questions

- Wouldn't Eye for an Eye be beneficial talent to have, i feel with the critic rate being around 30-35% on average its a pretty significant dps increase especially when fighting against 2 dps classes, and you as you mentioned before that SoC is used on a rare ocasion, does it make sence to take that talent point and put it into Eye for an Eye and at the same time changing the Glyph to DS, or am i just looking at this the wrong way

- About crusade talents, what do you think the % of times it will actually be used?

- how do you create a "Low Mana" warning

I run MSBT (Miks Scrolling Battle Text), which has inherent thresholds to announce when you have low health or low mana, these can be adjusted.

The crusade talent is a flat 3% damage increase, with an additional 3% towards certain classifications. Players are classified as Humanoid (except demon form Locks *ala demon*, Treeform druids *ala elemental*, and kitty and bear druids *not sure if travel form is included* I believe to be classified as Beast. So your looking at a rough 6% dmg boost on essentially all targets all the time.

Eye for an Eye is being nerfed next patch, while we don't know exactly when that patch will be it will get nerfed. Oddly enough in its nerfed form it will be the same value as 1 point puts it at now. I would recommend getting used to this change. As far as where i would put that point, I haven't done any real looking as of yet. For the DS glyph, I have tested it, and found it quite lacking and did not create sufficient amount of healing to really aid in relieving incoming damage. Not entirely sure what my glyph replacement would be just yet.

I don't really know what other classes are running at in terms of % to crit, but I have a measely 26% to crit in my PvP gear. I don't use a whole lot of raid gear (a whopping 1 item *helm*) which will be getting replaced upon buying my Furious helm once I have the points. With high resil the likelyhood you will be crit gets cut down alot, and the amount you get crit for goes down. I currently sit at roughly 764 Resil in PvP mode and tho I do take some pretty hard crits, with talents like Imp Righteous Fury, Glyph of Salvation, and Divine Protection, Divine Shield, Sacred Shield, you can do alot to mitigate what comes your way if your capable to react in time.

**Edit**

Upon looking further, Glyph of Divine Plea would be a decent choice for a replacement glyph, while it doesn't increase our output, it limits our intake and gives us yet another CD to burn to ease our healers stress.
Divine Protection is a fabulous ability, Bubblewall as its often called thanks to our Prot brothers reduces all incoming damage by 50% while at the same time not limiting your damage output. Glyph of Salvation stacks with this (unless someone can prove otherwise as I have personally experienced this taking place in BGs and Arena) spell to bring your damage reduction up to a grand total of 76% (Glyph of Salv 20% + Divine Protection 50% + Imp Righteous Fury 6% = 76%).

I have fought a MR team (granted they were bad, although without that combination of abilities we would of lost) that completely CC'd my resto shaman partner and only allowed him to get 1 instant cast heal off the entire match while attempting to burn me down. I could of easily bubbled, however they would of run away and reset the fight, leaving me defenseless on the next ambush. By taking the appropriate measures of getting into combat quickly, breaking the initial stun with Freedom and flipping to Salvation for the dmg reduction, trinketing the Kidney and popping Divine Protection, I was able to successfully tank and break both the Mage and the Rogue, forcing the mage into an Iceblock, and the rogue to vanish and run, both with sub 20% health before my partner was out of CCs and was able to heal finally. Yes I could of cleansed Poly from my partner, but in the situation I had 0 GCDs to spare.

There are tools at your disposal to make yourself a very formidable opponent in BGs and Arenas.

Recently I was spanked by an arms warrior. I am a Ret Paladin.

Him

The World of Warcraft Armory

Me

The World of Warcraft Armory

Looks pretty bad on me. He's in Season five Arena, I'm in pre-Naxx PvE epics.

That's why I'm here! I need some suggested gear to give me a chance in a rematch, some good PvP spec ideas, and a good strategy to use.

I come to you as humble clay, malleable and squishy. MOLD ME!

My best suggestion is avoid Bladestorm best you can, save stun for after it, and try to take him out then. Outside of that, i recommend my PvP spec and glyphs. Outside of that I don't know what to tell you.

Which one's your PvP spec? Top or bottom?

i looked at both of your gears and his gear is much better, its hard to compare your skill against someone that has a significant advantage to start, plus i dont see you having any PvsP matches and he has pelnty of experience, so taking both of these points into account you shouldnt feel bad loosing, just keep working on your gear and experiece, and I would put experience ahead of gear.

But you do have a good point, we should start discussing strategy, which strategy best applies in certain sitiations. i find it very difficult to fight against Warlocks/mages and a rogue, once they multiply now there are 4 of them and if he is good he will run araound a lot and you might loose track of him, so is there a way to mark the target so he is easy to find

I tend to save BoP when they try to reset or sap your DK.

As they previously mentioned, using chains on the rogue is an effective way to force him to blow cooldowns. Hammer him as early as possible as well to force the trinket. Make sure you keep sacred shield up on the focus target

The best way to avoid being polymorphed is to use seal of blood/martyr + judgement. This works the same way as using SW to break polymorphs. Additionally, use Conc Aura + Divine Sacrifice/Hand of Sacrifice to stop their big burst opener. Try to save bubble as an absolute last resort, because odds are you'll die shortly after it wears off.

So what is the general strategy for killing a disc/assassination rogue team?

I'm usually a raider, but Ive gotten interested in pvp lately since raids are once a week so I've got a lot of downtime even when leveling other toons (dont wanna level all day, boring)

I've partnered up with a resto/feral dual spec druid.
We're thinkin he'll be mostly tree form most of the time and kitty whenever he gets bored and just for fun.

What're good strategys we can use as a ret pally/resto druid team in 2v2s?

we're both relatively new and get pretty much facerolled all the time, most of the time he gets ripped apart and then i get 2v1'ed

have your druid spec resto. dual dps teams rarely work. Now I have yet another question. Due to the talent changes in the new patch, is Eye for an eye still worth it with the talent changed to return to 10% damage returned? Its rare enough to get crit, so with the damage return cut in half maybe there are other talents that will work better. Any thoughts?

Yeah download gladius, it's and addon that you can download from curse. It provides a clickable interface and some other usefull arena info. I just click the mages names there, impossible to lose track of the real mage, also make sure you have colored enemy name plates turned on.

I ended with a Disc priest partner but those macros help as well, thank you.

Anybody with exp with ret/disc combo?

we've done ok so far about a 50% win percentage, this is our first season of arena so we've still got a lot to learn

Defensive cooldown use is very important in 2v2 right now and you don't want to have to stop auto-attacking and click your buddy just to slap Hand of Sac on him, just as you don't want to have to do that to repentance a healer while you burn down his partner.[/quote]



can you please describe in detail what do you mean by defensive oooldown, and how can i attack my target and pop a spell on my partner at the same time without switching.

what do you guys think of an Arms warrior/Holy pally team, does it have potential or fury/holly pally is better
- As a ret pally i feel i dont have enough survivability, if i get jumped my health drops like a rock and i have to pop my bubble, i heal myself and then i have to rely on my FoL, i have been tracking healing done by my DS glyph, Fol and i started using JoL, all those combined give me decent health back over time but i still cant do anything against a rush. let me know if i am doing something wrong

Thx

Make macros, for example

/cast [target=yourpartner'sname] Hand of Sacrafice

do this for any spell you might have to cast on your partner and you can cast them quickly without switching target.

Arms / Holy* will be the best set up out of paladin / warrior possible. Fury just isn't as mobile and can't put out as much pressure as arms, and warriors generally need the support of a healer to do well. If you want to stay as ret you'd have a better time playing with a rogue as double dps, or with a priest / shaman / druid healer.

*I say holy, but a lot of healing paladins are using hybrid (32/0/39 or 19/52/0) healing specs and finding them to be better then full holy specs.

Hello, have any ret paladins here had any luck with a 2v2 survival hunter ret pally combo? Also what like to find out what ret pally's thoughts are as far as best 3v3 set including a ret pally in the set up, thanks in advance

Rog/Ret/Disc and Warrior/Ret/Druid should remain the most dominant ret cleave setups until they toss out some druid nerfs or redesign the ret combat system in the next patch. All you really need to do is pair up with someone who has MS and tunnel vision one target most of the time. You probably need a fair amount of PvE gear to compete at the top levels with that, though.

Totally agreeing with Amera. I have nasty experiences of rogue/ret killing me in literally 1.6 seconds. The amount of cleaving and backup with resto is ridiculous. And a paladin can go with almost any class of healer and get to 2k no problem. It will be interesting to see how and if blizzard fix this, since its hard without crippling these classes.

Has anyone come up past 2k as a healer/DK team lately, without an old, high MMR pulling you up?

We keep stagnating around 2k lately running prot-healer/unholy.

Most affliction warlock teams are an auto-loss unless we get lucky, despite some of the matches lasting quite a while, and they seem prevalent.

We have a lot of trouble with good shaman as well. Shaman-DK is a very rough match-up. Their DK puts so much pressure on me that I have no time to kill totems and the shaman healer seems designed to help counter the other virtues of a prot healing build, with their frequent interrupts of my attempts to get FoL off while the DK beats on me. Again, matches can be longish, but we typically lose.

Rogue/Priest we seem to split, and rogue/mage we rarely beat, given the massive CC they churn out (despite chaining DSac and HoSac to avoid sheeps, coupled with the rogue's ability to dismantle or evade anytime things get rough.

I feel like my DK is a good player, so something I'm doing could be the issue. Whenever I'm not being forced to spam FoL because of extreme pressure, I'm slipping HoJ in every cooldown, using AS for silences and have used even ShoR to good effect whenever I don't need to heal and my other goodies are on cooldown (it has crit up to 2k).

We've had some great matches against druid/warrior, usually coming out on top (some over 10 minutes duration), but it seems like the comp of teams we face often have some cards stacked against us, given their ability to chain CC or fear.

So - would love to hear form any 2v2 paladin healers that have come up through to higher ranks, particularly without a previous season's high MMR pulling them up (47 points a win, 0 points a loss, on up to 2600...yay).

Hi.
I just tried this 19/52 or 20/51 spec in 2v2 Arena, and well, it works,... somehow. But i dont know exactly which buff and seal i should cast on myself.?

Another question which is hard to answer for me is which stat i should prefer now (e.g. with Gems). Is Crit better because of the 30% increased crit heal, or haste because of faster heals? My flash of light casts 1.35 secs. now, and somehow im too slow in some situations...:-/ With an standard 51/20 spec or whatever these Gaps where filled by Holy Shocks and Instant FoL afterwards, but now?

Sounds to me like your DK isn't putting enough pressure onto the other team. If he still is doing a good amount of damage, it might be that you are trying to kill the wrong person. For instance, rogue/mage teams, yes you want to kill the rogue asap. But never EVER let the mage have more than 1GCD (preferably none) where he is being offensive with sheeps or shatter combos. Even though rogue supplies the pressure, mage is more deadly by far. Also, if you get slipped into a sheep and the DK looks like he is dropping, don't trinket, bubble. The mage with have CS ready for you, and if you can survive the opening CDs and pressure, you can defeat them with relative ease. Make sure your DK does his best to lockout the mage though, and you aswell with Arcane Torrent's/HoJ.

Agaisnt shaman/DK, make sure your DK rushes there shaman as quick as possible, and you run in with him. If you two keep fairly offensive on the shaman, since you have bubble left, any damage the DK does to you wont be too ground breaking. But constant pressure on the shaman is the way to go.

As a guideline, think of it like this. If you are forced to be defensive due to pressure on your team, the opposing team will have the advantage. Since they have you running, you cannot utilize your class properly until you have them running. Shaman left alone with hex, bloodlust and totems and not to mention LHW are crippling to any team, but since they die fast, damage onto them really reduces them to kiting and riptiding (time siliences well for these).

As for locks, never leave them alone. Keep pressure onto them and do your best to lockout the druids they are so lovingly paired with, they should go down.

Hello. I am a PvP ret paladin, playing 2200 2s and 2100 3s at the moment. I'm having difficulty making a castsequence macro that will cast my defensive cooldowns on my healer with one button.

Something like:

/castsequence reset=120 [target=player2] divine sacrifice, hand of protection, hand of sacrifice

I'd like it to cast one, then the other, then the other each time I press it, then reset at 2 minutes since that's the CD of divine sacrifice and hand of sacrifice. I use the function that casts friendly spells on myself if I have an enemy player targeted, hence the need for the target specifier.


Second macro help question. When I'm playing 3s i'll sometimes find myself the unusual position of wanting to BOP or hand of sacrifice my dps partner (a DK) instead of my healer. How can I add in a modifier to a macro that would be like

/cast [modifier:ctrl, help] [modifier:ctrl, target=targettarget, help] hand of protection; [modifier:shift, help] [modifier:shift, target=player1, help] hand of protection

Thanks for your help.