The Paladin PvP Thread - Page 56

Rej · 05/31/08, 3:39 AM

Originally Posted by Amera

If you are eating enough drains to where it is worthwhile, you are going to lose anyway. More often the extra crit and mp/5 on PvE gear will give you far more mana than from getting partial burns.

What about Retribution paladins? Wouldn't they benefit more from the resilience, as they are on the front lines.

kidvid · 05/31/08, 10:43 AM

Any thoughts on the best way to use Rawr to help me choose the most optimal gems and enchants for a 4 dps 5v5 team?

So far, I've tried setting the mana potions to zero, entering in my expected buffs, and then adjusting the fight length to various amounts before seeing what the optimizer chooses. It's interesting to note that if I set the fight length to 1 minute, I get wildly different results than if I choose 2 minutes, and that will have different enchants and gems than if I set the fight to 2.5 minutes.

One thing that definitely made me take notice was the fact that the 10 int gem is valued really high by the Rawr optimizer. Conversely, the optimizer seems to value the 10 spell haste gem to be nearly worthless. Perhaps if my +healing in pvp gear was over 2k, it would start to use haste items...

For my character right now, I've put in a lot of mp5, but I'm not sure if that's the best decision.

Also, any suggestions on the best trinket to use, other than the Epic medallion of the alliance? I'm torn between using the vial of the sunwell, the grand alchemist stone, the scarab of infinite cycles, and the +40 spell haste battlemaster's trinket.

Amera · 05/31/08, 5:41 PM

At this point most melee classes also wear as much PvE gear as they can too. I only run with ~300 or so as Ret, and I'd drop more if I had better rings and such. It's going to depend a lot more on your setup and how much you end up tanking, but I think generally since you'll be playing shorter games with Ret (since you'll invariably be double melee in 3s and probably tri-physical DPS in 5s), PvE gear isn't bad there, either.

Rej · 06/02/08, 5:10 AM

I see. It's unfortunate I don't have time to raid (and thus have no PvE gear), but if ~300 resilience is an acceptable amount, then I can definitely afford to swap out some PvP pieces for stronger PvE gear. Too bad it took me forever just to get the PvP cloak with 60 badges...

• frmorrison · 06/11/08, 3:18 PM

The PvP melee badge cloak is about the 5th best so that you wouldn't want to take that off for marginal dps gains.

I think the +40 spell haste battlemaster's trinket should be the 2nd trinket for healing, then the Alchemy one.

Rej · 06/17/08, 10:13 PM

Are the only pieces you'd swap out (as Ret) dropped from high-end raiding? Anything that doesn't involve 25-man runs that might serve to replace PvP pieces?

AriasImmortal · 06/17/08, 11:11 PM

Originally Posted by Rej

Are the only pieces you'd swap out (as Ret) dropped from high-end raiding? Anything that doesn't involve 25-man runs that might serve to replace PvP pieces?

Badge ring. Other than that, nothing that I can think of that doesn't come out of at least BT or Hyjal.

kidvid · 06/19/08, 10:26 AM

Except for the armor, I really like the way the stats are distributed on the Resto shaman set.

What I'm curious about is -- why did the armor designer consider Mp5 to be a must-have stat for a PVP shaman healer, but a worthless stat for a PVP Pally healer? The redemption sets do get some nice stats that compensate for the missing Mp5, but I'm starting to think that overall, the Shaman items are better balanced.

I'm seriously on the fence whether I should pick up the resto shaman chest and legs or go with the holy pally chest and legs.

Here's the breakdown:

S4 Holy Paladin Chest
1983 armor
67 Stam
42 int
3 sockets
42 spell crit
28 resil
68 healing

S4 Resto Shaman Chest
1110 armor (-873 armor)
61 stam (-6 stam)
36 int (-6 int)
3 sockets
36 spell crit (-6 spell crit)
26 resil (-2 resil)
11 Mp5 (+11 Mp5)
92 healing (+24 healing)

S4 Holy Paladin Legs
1735 armor
69 stam
45 int
46 spell crit
35 resil
103 healing

S4 Resto Shaman Legs
971 armor (-764 armor)
71 stam (+3 stam)
38 int (-7 int)
34 spell crit (-12 spell crit)
33 resil (-2 resil)
11 Mp5 (+11 Mp5)
110 healing (+7 healing)

Killmour · 06/19/08, 6:26 PM

Originally Posted by kidvid

Except for the armor, I really like the way the stats are distributed on the Resto shaman set.

What I'm curious about is -- why did the armor designer consider Mp5 to be a must-have stat for a PVP shaman healer, but a worthless stat for a PVP Pally healer? The redemption sets do get some nice stats that compensate for the missing Mp5, but I'm starting to think that overall, the Shaman items are better balanced.

I'm seriously on the fence whether I should pick up the resto shaman chest and legs or go with the holy pally chest and legs.

What? I don't understand how your going to pickup the shaman items.

Otherwise, yea I'm not a huge fan of the lack of Mp5, but I think it works out alright if you gem for it.

rehtonAesoohC · 06/19/08, 6:34 PM

Yeah, regular armor slots (not offset pieces) won't show up for armory classes other than your own on the arena vendor... Plate wearers show plate, mail show mail, etc.

• frmorrison · 06/20/08, 12:30 PM

While the Shaman stuff is itemized better (most of the time it is better to have more rather than less stats), both are using the full item budget.

It is too bad a Pally cannot get the Shaman stuff, but that does introduce some issues if you could do it (like getting double resil bonuses while not hurting your healing stats).

kidvid · 06/20/08, 4:47 PM

Why do you think they itemized the shaman items so differently? That's really my question.

We have two healing specs. One is forced into a spell crit, no Mp5 itemization. The other is given a broad range of stats including Mp5. Either there's a really doggone good reason they did this, like Blizzard knows I don't need Mp5 in arena when experience says otherwise, and I should know better. Or, perhaps they're not afraid of shaman resto gear being really good in PVE, but they don't want Holy Pally gear to be super good in PVE, hence the lack of Mp5.

holydevil · 06/21/08, 12:31 PM

In 3v3 is a Ret paladin really supposed to do as much dmg as a warrior? Sometimes I do as much dmg as a warrior but a lot of times I don't.

I'm not sure if I am DPSing wrong or something.

Judge Crusader -> Seal of Command -> Spam Crusader Strike -> Judge Command on a stun. Am I missing anything?

Also, I'm pretty pissed about paladin itemization too. I think balancing would start if all healers had the same healing stats. I don't understand while all other classes get MP5 and paladins are left in the cold. Either all healers get mp5 on thier gear or no healers get mp5 on thier gear imo. I DO know why. It's because of illumination but that's stupid. It's how a method of regen it just reduces the actual cost of the heal.

Amera · 06/22/08, 3:05 PM

In my experience, my warrior partner almost always did more damage than I did, unless I had a really lucky streak or he ate a ton of CC. Doing damage is fine, but you should always be prioritizing cleanse and freedom, which will cut into your DPS. If all you are doing is running in and whacking the target, a rogue is a much better option than a Ret paladin (they are anyway, but more so if you aren't keeping your warrior in combat).

Saban · 06/23/08, 12:04 PM

Whats the opinion of trying to stack as much spell haste as possible into a PvP set without tossing a ton of resilience out window?

Since all our heals have cast times it makes sense that i want to get them out the door faster, with a smaller window of interruption. I'm just wondering if its even possible to get that much spell haste without giving up other necessary stats like resil and sta.