Normally I can cyclone/roots kite warriors pretty much indefinitely in 2v2 arena, but when I get pitted up against a deep thunder MS warrior my plan goes all to hell. Inevitably at some point I will get intercepted, and mace spec proc/deep thunder procced in a 8-10 second stunlock from which I can't recover.

Is it possible to counter this, and if so how? And if not does anyone know if Blizzard plans on nerfing the proc rate or stun length on this weapon? It seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Edit for clarity: I'm a resto druid running with a combat daggers rogue, we are currently rated around 1850ish.

Save your Insignia of the Horde for it. It also becomes less of an issue the better your stamina and resilience gets.

Deep Thunder MS warriors are pretty much what Bears and I (I am the combat rogue) fear in our 2v2 matchups. Does anyone know the proc rate on this? I've checked Thottbot, but saw no useful replies.


Is this weapon a big issue for others in 2v2 and if so, what do you do about it? I'm frankly pretty amazed at how awesome this weapon can be in the hands of an arms warrior. I really can't imagine Sword Spec or Axe spec beating out a DT in the arena.


Chosimu, what level of stamina/resiliance is appropriate to handle this? You can see both our usual pvp setup in armory now. In case it changes, Bears hovers around 8.5k hp and 120 res while I am sitting at 9.8k with 110 res. Keep in mind that his hp is low to keep his healing up to an extremely high level.

DT is good in 2 on 2 but Axe spec is the way to go in 3on3 or 5on5.

The most obvious I can thik of is that you both are way too low on resilience. 1400 +healing seems way too much and is imo gimping both the resilience and stamina.

I think that in 2vs2 3vs3 it's all about doing a bit of both. So as a healer you need to be able to tank atleast one and heal and even add in some moonfire dps (just don't spam away the mana). And as a rogue you will need to bandage yourself when needed just to unload your partner

And turning the game into a 2on1 in every match with an undispellable CC spell does not seem pretty ridiculous to you?

The higher up you go into the 5vs5 brackets, the less you can hope for chain crits to kill someone.

In areas like BEM or teams with 2-3 people nearby being able to use SS, WW or Cleave to proc a stun on them is relatively helpful even if you don't notice it right away, i'd much rather have the stun proc over crits due to resilience going up and up.

Overall, with the 3.6-3.8ish speed weapon I believe the number was roughly 13-15% chance to proc total from Mace Spec + DT.

You give too much credit to the DT proc. You forget that most warriors with DT also spec mace specialization. This is what stuns you most of the time.

Mace Spec is 11% proc rate with a 3.8 Weapon

DT's proc rate is about 2PPM.

Oh, and Amen.

Deep thunder can change a game in 2v2/3v3 but I don't see the same effect when it comes to 5v5's. Too many healers, a lot more room for stuns to make little difference. Now, I'm not saying deep thunder is horrible in 5v5's. But I think that the Mooncleaver line is a better suited weapon for my team's setup.

Well unfortunately I haven't been able to get very many 5v5 points for my druid since the season began, so I haven't been able to buy as much arena gear as I would have liked. Living off 2v2 points results in pretty poor returns. The few times I did go into 5v5 matches I just got assist trained down within seconds and there is nothing I could do to stop it. As a result, I just do 5v5 on my arcane fire mage instead, where I can actually provide something useful to the team.

Also my 2 gladiator pieces are doubling as PvE gear for the time being, hence the poor gem selection for PvP. Also of note is that druid healing power (and as a result, druid PvP survivability) scales the best with +heal gear, due to the nature of HoTs. While I would like more stamina and resilience, and have a good gear progression for both PvE and PvP planned out, I don't really plan on sacrificing huge amounts of +heal for moderate survivability gains.

As a druid my job is to heal and keep 1 member of the opposite team CCed through cyclone and entangling roots spam. I do toss out a moonfire from time to time, but I definitely do not use it liberally as it sucks mana like crazy if I'm not careful about when/where I use it. Also, I can't imagine a situation where bandaging might help anything, as the only time either of us aren't topped up from hots is when we are actively being beat on.

It's never a 1on1 as your HoTs are still ticking on your teammate, the warrior however doesn't do jack for 12 seconds. Cyclone right now is the most frustrating spell for many players in the arena, don't expect a lot of pity when you post a thread "Deep Thunder warrior ripped my face off when I tried to cyclone him"

What's your point? There's a 2PPM proc on a mace anyone without a weapon spec can have and there's a seperate 11% Weapon Specialisation. It's no more overpowered than Cyclone.

At least you can trinket the DT/Mace Spec Proc, there's no escape from Cyclone.

Hi Pot, meet Kettle. You are a paladin with 2 invulnerability shields, and you can wear plate, while popping out 6k crit heals with a 100% chance to ignore interruption from damage. Am I complaining about that? No. But druids without cyclone would be about as useful in the arena as Paladins without their invulnerability shields.

The quality of this forum is pretty evident when a post about Deep Thunder gets derailed by Paladins and Warriors complaining about another class.

I think you're missing my point here. You can trinket the proc and better survival gear will make you last longer in arena in that situation. Mace spec and Deep Thunder are not getting nerfed and lashing out at other classes because people are drawing comparisons between cyclone and weapon stuns is not going to make your point any stronger.

I think my DT is broken. The thing procs maybe once every five minutes if I'm lucky :P

I think in PVP\Arena there will always be that "wtf overpowered" for any repeatable tactic around which a team bases it's entire strategy, if you are not able to make use of that tactic.

If the warrior killing you is relying completely on mace proc, then he is not very good. If you want to argue that mace stun into a pummel into intercept into mace stun is overpowered, then don't play a game based around a RNG. Pretty soon we're going to see everyone with a 3rd level BS weapon, and I've got to believe that they will not be the top gun of weapons anymore just given how easy they will be to make.

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that.

I can trinket the proc once every 2 minutes, and even then trinketing out of it doesn't stop me from getting immediately stunned again, or from another stun proc chain from kicking my ass the next time the warrior is immune to cyclone for 15 seconds. The thing is I don't really know when the next stun proc is going to land, so I don't know if/when I need the trinket.

As for the PvP gear, I'm working on it, but even with a decent rating in 2v2 I get less points than if I was regularly getting 5v5 points on a terrible arena farming team. I do have a 5v5 farm team that I am on, but it isn't very organized and I don't get in 10 games most weeks.

There are counters to every single ability you've just named. There's nothing you can do when a druid shifts from stealth and pops a NS cyclone.